Terms of Reference for a Senate Inquiry into the Future of Rugby Union in Australia

[mothy]

6PR is a talkback radio station in Perth and all things wa should matter. Surely they can get one person from media just to update the process. The ARU are getting away with anonymity because of Perth media and people remaining quiet. We need to keep at them to ensure the skullduggery and bastard act of the ARU is not forgotten.

They have treated us unfairly! We should be heard and bother stations like 6pr until they listen. We are a community that is being dismissed and I am furious at this.

In fact I never thought it would affect me so emotionally as a supporter but it is on my mind constantly.

[Bakkies]

Saltbush recommended dropping a team in 2013-2014, they must have had a clue what Accenture were going to recommend. Particularly since many of these reviews are launched with a general discussion about what is expected to be recommended.

along with the fact that the ARU always looks out for its 'strategic options.' They should have axed the Rebels then and said it was a mistake to bring them in.

There are clowns in NSW and to some extent in Qld advocating for a return to three sides. Having seen what axing two sides in Scotland (Caledonian Reds and Border Reivers) and merging them in to Glasgow and Edinburgh did to the game there it is best to ignore those idiots. People from clubland purposely didn't go to Glasgow and Edinburgh games to make a point and there was a failed privatisation of Edinburgh. Edinburgh had to play at Murrayfield due to the fact that they couldn't afford to rent anywhere else which was an embarrassment to the competitions they played in. This is while the SRU was in debt due to the Murrayfield refurbishment. It took the game over fifteen years to recover there which they are just coming out of.

[Bakkies]

6PR is a talkback radio station in Perth and all things wa should matter. Surely they can get one person from media just to update the process. The ARU are getting away with anonymity because of Perth media and people remaining quiet. We need to keep at them to ensure the skullduggery and bastard act of the ARU is not forgotten.

They have treated us unfairly! We should be heard and bother stations like 6pr until they listen. We are a community that is being dismissed and I am furious at this.

In fact I never thought it would affect me so emotionally as a supporter but it is on my mind constantly.

I suggested the other day to get in touch with Oliver Peterson who has given the ARU sprays on his show.

[UAUdiver1959]

I am still shaking my head at Imperium Sports Management paying themselves with that extra $6m, more than the entire playing squad. How has this missed the media or RUPA?
Due diligence? Ongoing ARU financial oversight? Clyne perpetuates the lie. No one at the ARU are putting down the shovel, the hole gets deeper.

[Bakkies]

The ARU going back to 2010 hasn't done due diligence. At least when the Force was brought in the ARU had a transparent bidding process voted on by a democratic bid. There were four bids yes four. The Gold Coast and western Sydney bids were quiet rightly ruled out early as there was nothing substantive behind them. The fact that the Reds and Waratahs were struggling didn't help their cause as an extra team in their catchment would have have diluted the support base they both were trying to build.

I don't think any other parties bothered to bid in 2010.

[mothy]

Yeh I did send a message yesterday Bakkies, only problem I have is that I can’t listen to his whole show due to work. I have also called the sports program. -what astounds me though is that for most other sports there is running commentary on any issue. However it seems the media wants to let this issue die. I have also felt the local media never really strongly supported rugby when the Force was in action further to that there is no interest in NRC other than fox and supporters. I feel the media is implicit in the forces demise. To be fair this coming from someone who was always an Australian rules fan and supporter who grew to love rugby. I still like aussie rules, but why can’t these sports coexist in WA. The public have been robbed from high end rugby and that is what is forgotten by the media in this.

[Jules]

Didn't he say at one point WA government offered nothing but then Linda pointed out the offer from WA was superior than Vic. I admit I kepr turning off because I got so annoyed but did I miss something it was that correct?

[sittingbison]

There was no reason to expand in 2010, other than certain butt hurt people managed to force it (scuz pun). ALL research recommended it was economic and player strength suicide, unsustainable. Which it has three times proven to be, and now heading for a fourth

[sittingbison]

Didn't he say at one point WA government offered nothing but then Linda pointed out the offer from WA was superior than Vic. I admit I kepr turning off because I got so annoyed but did I miss something it was that correct?

Yes it is Jules. Not only that, Clyne himself said for the excercise they allowed full OTF subscription AND long term sponsoring for the Force, which still came short of (still sponsor less) Rebels. How can that be when WAGov matched VicGov? And then he admitted the ACTUAL VicGov offer is less than previously advertised

[Bakkies]

Yeh I did send a message yesterday Bakkies, only problem I have is that I can’t listen to his whole show due to work. I have also called the sports program. -what astounds me though is that for most other sports there is running commentary on any issue. However it seems the media wants to let this issue die. I have also felt the local media never really strongly supported rugby when the Force was in action further to that there is no interest in NRC other than fox and supporters. I feel the media is implicit in the forces demise. To be fair this coming from someone who was always an Australian rules fan and supporter who grew to love rugby. I still like aussie rules, but why can’t these sports coexist in WA. The public have been robbed from high end rugby and that is what is forgotten by the media in this.

They put the whole show up on podcast pretty quick and also break it down individual podcasts for relevant segments. When is Mark McGowan next on his show?

The tv networks backed the Force when they were bidding for the fourth side (which Melbourne never had) and Channel 10 were present at the rallies.

I listened to SEN in Melbourne when the Force were announced (can't recall if they ever covered it during the bid process) and they were quiet good at admitting that Perth had the far superior community backed bid.

[Kalahard]

So it would have cost over $100M to keep the Force in. If that is the case then SupernRugby is truly screwed and should be easing eyebrows in the other countries as wel.

I would ignore whatever figure Clyne puts on retaining the Force. It has been revealed that for $1 the ARU could have exercised the second put option back to the ARU. They didn't, they facilitated the other put option back to the VRU. So therefore the cost of retaining the Force is $1 as that is all the Rebels license is worth on last available sale data and contractual value. For $1 the ARU could have wound up the Rebels to stop the bleeding, retained the Victorian government money as this was existing money for the test matches upcoming not Rebels expenditure and accepted Andrew Forrest's offer to put $6million a year for 8 years into grassroots through the Australian Rugby Foundation, underwriting the Force for no future loss and retained the 3rd biggest state in terms of grassroots participation. The ARU chose the other option, keep paying millions over and above what they needed to and keep pouring millions into "consultancy fees" and "legal fees" and propping up a failing investment company in NZ.

[sittingbison]

...Leahy was rattling off Victorian produced Wallabies since the Rebels were brought in over half of them don't want to play for Melbourne. Leiliifano has turned them down at least twice, ditto Ioane at least, Tapuai went to the Force when he had an option to go to Melbourne, Elsom has connections down there and went to the Brumbies.

So which of CLL, Digby, Taps and Rocky got a start because of the Rebels?

And the scoffing dismissiveness of Clyne "the first Vic wallaby was 60 years ago" wtf what an insult to all the Wallabies that came through the Force, whether born here or not. Without the Force, none would have got there, Pocock and Hodgo included (and Judas....didn't want to mention Hodgo in same breath as Judas)

[Bakkies]

Pocock would have been stuck behind Croft for three years had he stayed in Queensland. Tarts had Waugh and the Brumbies George Smith (it is still wrong seeing him in a Reds jersey).

[Kalahard]

Didn't he say at one point WA government offered nothing but then Linda pointed out the offer from WA was superior than Vic. I admit I kepr turning off because I got so annoyed but did I miss something it was that correct?

Yep, Clyne had to back down on the point about the WA government offering more than what the ARU settled on as part of Victorias bid.

Victorias offer - in Clynes words, less than $20 million over 10 years, more losses, no sponsors, no high performance academy, smallest crowds in Super Rugby and shrinking and serious questions on how the Rebels operate and massive historical losses.

WAs offer - more than $20 million over 10 years, no future losses, a 4 year sponsorship on option, a high performance academy, crowds regrowing, $48 million over 8 years for National investment and support, no serious questions on governance or money disappearing, growing grassroots.

The question then to Clyne would be "You're a former banker so basic maths should be an area you would be strong in and understand as some banking proceedures and policies are based upon maths. With this in mind Mr Clyne, could you please tell the committee which number is bigger - $15 million or $68 million? Please, take all the time you need, i know its a doosy of a question. Maybe take it on notice if you can't answer right now?"

[Jules]

Can Rugby WA go back to The senate to refute all of his crap or is it just up to them to go through and work it out?