Pindan Premier Round 8

[Hansie]

Good point RR.

Ecky, I personally could not support Judiciary penalties going public.

As you can see from RR's comment above, there may be 2 Red cards for the same offence handed out by two different referees. One ref may grade the offence lower end of the range a second ref may grade his offence medium. This means ( if my interpretation is correct) that IRB penalties already start at different points e.g low end could be 1-3 weeks, medium 4-8 ( just for debate's sake). Then you have the club opt for 1,2 or 3 per RR's post above.

If the penalties are then made public, you would then expect the Judiciary having to parry multiple questions on consistency, favouritism, ineptitude etc from us sideline experts. These guys are volunteering their time, doing their best and frankly don't need to have to answer to us. Each decision is recorded and kept for prosperity and also sent to the club to allow the club to follow through the appeals process anyway.

[wingman]

They tried to go down that road of publishing judiciary before with the inside ball newsletter but this has stopped

Given that judiciary at times can be messy I would say you would only get inconsistent messages coming out so scrap it

If interested in a result usually clubs can enquire and get a straight answer easy enough from shakey or hill
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[wholetruth]

Why should RugbyWA be so different from every other code. SANZAR put out the results, AFL, NRL, WAFL. We know what Dylan Hartley got. All are put out there so why not RugbyWA. It might keep a sense of fairness if we could all see what the penalties were. I'm sure we'd all like to know what BW got.

[wingman]

Hansie there you go easy action item to raise with the powers that be

Quick media release every Thursday morning on the judiciary results from Wednesday hearings
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[Ralto]

If the penalties are then made public, you would then expect the Judiciary having to parry multiple questions on consistency, favouritism, ineptitude etc from us sideline experts. These guys are volunteering their time, doing their best and frankly don't need to have to answer to us. Each decision is recorded and kept for prosperity and also sent to the club to allow the club to follow through the appeals process anyway.

Hansie, is this tongue in cheek - I'm not good with sarcasm when it's written - you are tugging the proverbial aren't you?

[fulvio sammut]

No, and neither is PoliticalBS in his stubborn support of what was done to Rockingham.

And that in itself is tragic, both for the game of rugby and for the soul of the individuals themselves.

Flying in the face of reason, logic, and notions of fair play, they actually believe in what they say ....

Arbeit macht frei, the end justifies the means, and you only need to know what they think you need to know.

I can deal with immorality. Amorality is a more difficult and perplexing issue.

[Hansie]

Whilst I personally still don't agree with publicly announcing Judiciary outcomes, I think it needs to go to Council of clubs forum for discussion. Maybe some president's don't want penalties for their players to be out there.

If it is important, ask your presidents to have RugbyWa put it on the next council meeting agenda and see what can be done to satisfy the majority.

In the professional environment where people are paid to play the game, administer the game and appear on the judiciary, I can see some merit in publishing judiciary outcomes.

But in our amateur comp. should we do likewise?

Happy to be convinced we should.

[RumourMonger]

Ahh, decision-making by Committee. That way no-one can be blamed!

Watch out, you may want a race horse but end up with a Camel!

The real issue is Transparency of Process versus the negatives for the Sport. The present system in WA has the process dealt with behind closed doors and that always raises questions. If the judiciary outcomes were made public then could that lead to negative publicity for rugby in WA?

Certainly matters like the Alleged Assaults in Margaret River earlier this year, the Richard Browne matter from last year and the Ben Whittaker incident(s) raise people's interest. You can obtain the outcomes if you ask the right people at Rugby WA but they won't say much. What people want to know is the reasoning behind the bizarre penalties often handed out and that is what we apparently will never know.

[Hansie]

I don't think many have a problem with What people want to know is the reasoning behind the bizarre penalties often handed out and that is what we apparently will never know

The reason I am against it going public is because us community rugby followers have little patience for volunteers doing their best. Just go to a Cott vs Soaks game and listen to the abuse a Ref gets from the sideline, or watch some junior games out at Brittania - and we ask ourselves "why don't we have any decent refs" - answer who wants to give of their time to get abused.

Do we want us sideline experts transmitting in a public forum how wrong a judiciary was in applying a penalty. Again who would want to be on the Judiciary if we all can have a free kick without knowing the facts?

If we had a bit more respect for those people who give countless hours to administer our game for free and we could argue a point without insulting someone, I reckon we'd go a long way to growing our game.

Frankly I'd like to have a couple of Ref shirts with me at the sidelines of some of our games, and when I see a spectator get abusive, go up to said spectator hand him a jersey and whistle and send him onto the paddock.

[RugbyRef]

I had an abusive spectator once in a game, i approached him and said "If you believe you can do better.. " at the same time as pushing my hand out and removing my whistle.

His friends all goaded him forward and with a smile he stepped up, just as I continued "...then get yourself a course, get qualified and get your own game! This one's mine". He stepped back and was no longer an issue.
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[RugbyRef]

Another good stopper was one I heard from a friend, A player was heard shouting nasty words in a refs general direction, the referee pulled the player and captain up and explained his issue. The player then stated in defence "But sir, I was talking to myself". The ref without batted an eyelid showed his yellow card and said "On my my pitch, no one talks to you like that".

I wish i'd been there.
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[Action Hardcore]

I had an abusive spectator once in a game, i approached him and said "If you believe you can do better.. " at the same time as pushing my hand out and removing my whistle.

His friends all goaded him forward and with a smile he stepped up, just as I continued "...then get yourself a course, get qualified and get your own game! This one's mine". He stepped back and was no longer an issue.
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Another good stopper was one I heard from a friend, A player was heard shouting nasty words in a refs general direction, the referee pulled the player and captain up and explained his issue. The player then stated in defence "But sir, I was talking to myself". The ref without batted an eyelid showed his yellow card and said "On my my pitch, no one talks to you like that".

I wish i'd been there.
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What kind of a low life makes up stories for an internet forum???

[GIGS20]

What kind of a low life makes up stories for an internet forum???

As opposed to stealing them from a different Internet forum?

[Action Hardcore]

I'll bite your face

[RugbyRef]

What kind of a low life makes up stories for an internet forum???

Been a Referee nearly 20 years, seen and heard a lot.

No stories I tell are made up (unless I state they are), nor do I claim them to be mine if they are not. Perhaps you make up stories and assume others do the same? I'm not sure.
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