Results 1 to 13 of 13

Thread: Push for foreign facelift

  1. #1
    Immortal Contributor
    Moderator
    Burgs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Country WA
    Posts
    22,857
    vCash
    406000

    Push for foreign facelift

    Personally I think this would be a big mistake and the thin edge of the wedge.
    I hope the ARU hold the current line and let the current expansion and ARC development play its course. We had eighty eight men ready to play every full round of this years Super 14, don't tell them they are shit by bringing in foreign players, take responsability and develop them to the standard we need!
    IF the policy is endorsed then PLEASE make it only for players who are in the process of gaining Australian eligability, so that they can play while they serve their time.

    Push for foreign facelift

    Rupert Guinness
    Thursday, May 31, 2007


    Australia's four Super 14 franchises will ask the national union to allow the recruitment of foreign players for next season.

    The issue was raised at a two-day meeting of NSW, Queensland, ACT and Western Australia rugby chief executives in Sydney that ended on Tuesday.

    All the provinces agreed to the "philosophy" of recruiting foreign players but need the Australian Rugby Union board to support the move.

    ARU high performance manager Pat Wilson, who chaired the meeting, said he would present the ARU board with a case study to consider at its mid-June meeting.

    "This is not the only thing we are looking at," Wilson said. "We have been talking about new laws, proposals to have more teams in the finals, and allowing foreign players. It is all about looking at ways we can rejuvenate the Super 14.

    "But, no doubt, there is an appetite for the recruitment of foreign players."

    Wilson said the proposal had been an item of discussion for some time.

    But following a Super 14 season that saw no Australian side in the finals, NSW and Queensland finish a worst-ever 13th and 14th, and a drop in crowds, the feeling was that Australian rugby must soon open its doors to foreign players if it wanted to improve.

    Such a move would help the provinces fill areas of weakness - such as in the props department, as the Reds discovered this year. It would also allow for the possible recruitment of marquee names, whose appearances would raise the potential for the franchises to market their fixtures.

    "The general feeling is a positive one about it in philosophy, so long as it doesn't rob an Australian player of the same ability of an opportunity," NSW Rugby chief executive Fraser Neill said. "Where there is a lack of depth, a foreign player could fill it. But there would still be a responsibility to develop in those areas."

    Neill said "business and commercial interests" required franchises to field the best possible teams to ensure entertaining fixtures, and this might well have to be achieved by looking beyond Australia for talent.

    Such a policy would still require a cap on the number of foreign players to be recruited, said ACT Rugby chief executive Andrew Fagan.

    "There would have to be a limited number of say one or two players per team," said Fagan, who believes the move could be introduced for next season.

    "There is no time like the present; certainly as soon as possible. I don't see why we would have to wait until 2009 �c 2008 would be viable.

    "Even if not every team took up the policy next year, it would allow those who need it to use it. It would also show that we have changed our policy when right now we are one of the few countries in the world not to allow foreigners to play."

    The ARU showed an open mind to the policy this year by granting the Reds an exemption that allowed Kiwi prop Tama Tuirirangi to play for them when injuries left the team without enough home-grown props for a Super 14 standard scrum.

    Tuirirangi, who played for the Hurricanes and Chiefs between 1999 and 2003, is now a resident of Australia. He had been living on the Gold Coast and playing club rugby until his sudden call-up in March by Reds coach Eddie Jones.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    "Bloody oath we did!"

    Nathan Sharpe, Legend.

  2. #2
    Player Contributor Flat-top's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Wiltshire, UK
    Posts
    399
    vCash
    5000000
    A double edged sword me thinks.

    On the positive side the factors quoted in the article, namely "no Australian side in the finals, NSW and Queensland finish a worst-ever 13th and 14th, and a drop in crowds" must be taken seriously and adressed, this is a way( not the only one I accept) of doing that.

    On the negative side of course the number of starting places for potential Wallabies is reduced. Just look at the shambles created in the English GP where of 12 professional teams only a very few have qualified Englishmen starting in key positions, and as you have only 4 teams to start with it wouldn't be unreasonable to think that in a few seasons "marquee" signings of say Jonny Wilkinson could fill one of only four 10 slots in the country.

    Certainly other countries allow this practice and on the whole it is positive but it does need to be policed, it always starts off with a small quota but once a precedent is set the quota will grow season by season.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  3. #3
    Immortal Contributor shasta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Mandurah
    Posts
    15,817
    vCash
    5544000
    Quote Originally Posted by Flat-top
    On the positive side the factors quoted in the article, namely "no Australian side in the finals, NSW and Queensland finish a worst-ever 13th and 14th, and a drop in crowds" must be taken seriously and adressed, this is a way( not the only one I accept) of doing that.
    I can't see any positives here FT. ZA has permitted "guest" players and had a terrible record in the S14. Of course they have turned that around this year but I doubt that has much to do with guest players.

    This is the first year of the ARC and only the second for the fourth S14 team. I'm for staying the course. I hope the NZRU do the same. We should see the benefit in a few years.


    I'm not convinced by the doom n gloom sayers on the state of Australian rugby. I think the Wallabies will at least reach the simis in France. I'm reserving judgement on the current baffling Australian selections till after RWC too.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  4. #4
    Senior Player Contributor hopep's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Leederville
    Posts
    592
    vCash
    5000000
    Not all that convinced of the touted benefits, short or long term.
    The foreign players will be looking for lucritive, short term often end of career, money. They are unlikey to contribute much to sports develpment and (worst of all) they will soak up cash, restricting what we could spend on Aussie players and develpment.

    Look what has happend to NBL, great for a few seasons - nwo its all about "we need this mega dollar import" to have any chance of doing well. and the basketball rating have steadily dropped.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  5. #5
    Player Contributor Flat-top's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Wiltshire, UK
    Posts
    399
    vCash
    5000000
    Being an "outsider" I can only go on what the article quotes, if it is misleading me then of course my viewpoint may change.

    There is no doubt that these type of imports increase the gate, both the English and French Leagues prove that without a shadow of a doubt and for the ARU to ignore the potential benefit is crazy and negligent.

    If S14 crowd numbers are down (I stress IF), in a world cup year (when the game is getting most publicity than in other years) then that is a massive problem that cannot be understated, all other national leagues across the world are showing increased trends and the ARU have to question why their product is in decline.

    The current structure needs paying fans otherwise clubs have to turn more and more toward Television Revenue (as the costs of franchise rise year on year) which in turn reduces the number of walk-ups and a vicious circle is established.

    I do not see this as the panacea for rugby in Oz but it has to be debated and given due consideration. What would be more helpful rather than just riticising the proposal would be to suggest alternative action that may help turn around the fortunes of Aussie S14 teams.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  6. #6
    Immortal Contributor shasta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Mandurah
    Posts
    15,817
    vCash
    5544000
    Quote Originally Posted by Flat-top
    I do not see this as the panacea for rugby in Oz but it has to be debated and given due consideration. What would be more helpful rather than just riticising the proposal would be to suggest alternative action that may help turn around the fortunes of Aussie S14 teams.
    Very true and it has been discussed in plenty of other threads here. The fourth franchise and the ARC are intended to do just that. Your point about other leagues going gangbusters in a RWC year has also had a run here. If the increses in player registrations are looked at as a stand alone issue, they suggest the game's profile is lifting. However there does not seem to be a lot of hype surrounding the RWC or the game in general. This is a marketing/administration issue and there have been moves at the ARU to correct this.

    A big problem in trying to expand the game in Oz is the lack of FTA TV coverage of S14 and the luke warm commitment to live FTA coverage of tests outside established rugby strongholds. I can understand pay TV operators wanting to restrict FTA coverage in established areas but I just can't see why they don't promote their product in new areas. It is encouraging to see the ARC and the Pacific Nations Cup on live FTA around the nation, but again this has not been promoted too well.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  7. #7
    Player Contributor Flat-top's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Wiltshire, UK
    Posts
    399
    vCash
    5000000
    Not suggesting there hasn't been debate Shasta, I just think that constructive critism is always better than just objections and I feel the posts following my initial comment were quick to dismiss the ideas put forward in this article but failed to suggest a single alternative...you don't want the Poms to call you whingers now do you

    Your latest response actually does enforce my point though, because the profile of rugby union is rising in other countries, it appears only Oz are bucking the trend...what is the reason for that, is the product stale and in need of a new "gimmick"?

    Of course the fourth franchise was meant to help but two years into this and alledgely (for I have no evidence) attendances for S14 are down.

    As for the WCup, once again it must only be in Oz that there is an issue, the tournament is effectively sold out (even at the extortionate prices), the towns and cities hosting fixtures are booked out and they all look forward to a significant income stream, so I would suggest the administrators would consider that a success.

    I agree about the impact lack of FTA coverage can have on the game but in the UK there is virtually no FTA coverage, either in rugby strongholds or elsewhere and yet we are not suffering from the same decline in attendances, instead our crowd numbers are up so your logic on how FTA affects support doesn't hold water. You could instead say that because there is no FTA coverage of games supporters are prepared to actually go to the game...except of course in Oz that appears not to be the case.

    Once again I do not want my post to appear that I am 100% behind the proposal but I think it may have merit in some form.

    Good debate by the way Shasta , certainly more interesting than what I should be doing right now.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  8. #8
    Veteran Bookie
    Contributor
    The Lone Hydrangea's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Guildford.W.A.
    Posts
    4,122
    vCash
    5000000
    We are basically miserable with the state of rugby in Australia, FT. We love a winning culture in any sport and when the wheels start falling off we start to panic. We have been under performing since 2003 and we are paying the price now. Apart from the Force cranking up, the ARC is going to be the one lasting legacy of Gary Flowers. We have been crying out for a second tier comp for years. I firmly believe it will only work with home grown men to fill 1st and 2nd tier spots in any team. It is not a elitest position, but i expect Australian rugby players only. The way the Kiwis are bailing out after the RWC there maybe some spots up for grabs. Id suspect they wouldnt be keen either.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

    the punters friend..... stick with me and you will be wearing



  9. #9
    Champion Contributor Em-Forcer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Perth, WA
    Posts
    1,277
    vCash
    5000000
    I don't see how the ARU will be able to pay attractive enough salaries when they are already leaching players to the northern hemisphere... surely it would be better to try to keep those players in the first place.

    However I don't think it is entirely wrong to bring in foreign players if it raises the public's interest, and inspires youngsters. There's certainly a good buzz about Larkham coming to Edinburgh!
    Also it can be very useful if they fill a gap - like the prop problem mentioned in the article - but they should help with training and development so there will be local players for that position in the future.

    The fourth franchise seems to be working to the extent that there is healthy membership and attendance at home matches - it strikes me the problem is at the more established teams. And yes, the 'winning culture' does seem to have something to do with it. It's partly a modern phenomenon, for which the media are in no small part responsible. It's a two-edged sword - you need good media coverage to attract new fans to the sport (which is necessary as it's not one of the grass-roots sports in so much of Australia), but then these fans don't have that deep-seated love of the game which allows them to support their team, win or lose (or like here in Scotland - through rain, hail & snow!).

    It's not just an Australian problem - true, the profile of rugby in the UK is quite high (though nowhere near that of the ubiquitous football [soccer]), with excellent attendances for 6 Nations, but I'm sure a lot of club rugby struggles. Look at the loss of the Border Reivers - and if rugby was considered to be in the blood anywhere, it would be there!

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Keeping the Faith ... right here in Perth!

  10. #10
    Immortal Contributor shasta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Mandurah
    Posts
    15,817
    vCash
    5544000
    Quote Originally Posted by Flat-top
    I feel the posts following my initial comment were quick to dismiss the ideas put forward in this article but failed to suggest a single alternative...you don't want the Poms to call you whingers now do you
    Ideas? I can see only one idea in that article FT. That is to allow "guest players" It's not exactly "cutting edge" thinking. No matter how many times it gets run up the flag pole I'll still not agree with it.

    Alternatives? ARC, Pacific Nations Cup, Western Force, better FTA coverage, better marketing. I thought they'd already got a mention though

    A forwards academy ( or as some have called it Scrum School) would be a good idea too.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Last edited by shasta; 31-05-07 at 22:57.

  11. #11
    Legend Court Reporter
    Contributor
    James's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Bridgetown, WA
    Posts
    6,114
    vCash
    22000
    I don't really know about lack of interest down here. Michalak has come to the Sharks and they can't really have offered him that much besides that a number of backline players from Europe (Gavin Henson for one) expressed a lot of interest in playing in the Super 14 because they see the Southern Hemisphere teams as the masters of backline playing. I would think at least some players might be interested to have regular match-ups with All Blacks/Wallabies/Bok players. Its a big pay cut, sure, but if it helps you develop it could mean more money in the future.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  12. #12
    Player Contributor Flat-top's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Wiltshire, UK
    Posts
    399
    vCash
    5000000
    Spot on James, it is easy to assume that everyone is chasing the buck/pound/dollar but that isn't the case. Of course there are high profile moves from SH to NH for large salaries but the SH, in particular Oz has so much more to offer the NH stars...what is it that makes so many people emigrate to Oz, it certainly isn't the money!

    Shasta you are choosing to read only what suits you, just because you don't agree doesn't make it either wrong to debate (so what if it has been said before) or not worth further consideration in relation to the Force (that is what this site ought to be about). I think that the Force actually have an advantage over the other Oz franchises on this one if they choose to take the lead. They don't have years of history and tradition holding them back, and they have the most attractive state in the country (IMHO) to attract players to.

    The article clearly mentions,

    1. New Laws
    2. More teams in the final
    3. Foreign players

    You don't want me to question the Oz education system now do you

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  13. #13
    Immortal Contributor shasta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Mandurah
    Posts
    15,817
    vCash
    5544000
    Quote Originally Posted by Flat-top

    Shasta you are choosing to read only what suits you, just because you don't agree doesn't make it either wrong to debate (so what if it has been said before) or not worth further consideration in relation to the Force (that is what this site ought to be about).......................

    The article clearly mentions,

    1. New Laws
    2. More teams in the final
    3. Foreign players

    You don't want me to question the Oz education system now do you

    You have me there. The article does mention a few other ideas to boost the profile of the S 14 overall. However nobody, including you or I, has commented on, nor challenged or supported these ideas in this thread. The thread is quite clearly about only one of those ideas - guest players.

    I wouldn't care to speculate about the education system in the UK as I've had no experience of it. But I remember enough about school debates here to be pretty sure that the second and third affirmative speakers would be severely marked down if they decided to introduce ideas out of left field which were never spoken about by the first affirmative when defining the topic.

    That would probably be enough to loose the debate for them.

    I think you should get

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

Similar Threads

  1. Gregan helps push Toulon towards top
    By shumba101 in forum Wallabies
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 29-01-08, 11:48
  2. Wallabies push training to the limits
    By travelling_gerry in forum Rugby World Cup
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 14-09-07, 12:40
  3. Melbourne push for World Sevens
    By Burgs in forum International Rugby
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 22-03-06, 15:38

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •