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Thread: Hayman to dump All Blacks

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    Hayman to dump All Blacks

    We are continuing to lose top players from both sides of the Tasman to European Rugby.
    The reasons cited are always huge money and then lifestyle.
    We continue to hear that Australian players are being paid too much.
    Well, seems simple to me, we can go on pretending we have a competitive product with Super 14 and slowly dwindle into a second rate regional curiosity or the leaders of SANZAR can get busy and promote the product and start making us competitive with the European version!
    It may mean some short term pain, it may mean some radical thought, but if things don't change and the exodus of the Southern Hemispheres best continues at the current rate all we will have left will be a European development comp made up of Colts and second rate hacks!
    You could argue that a couple of teams already resemble that comment in 2007.

    Hayman to dump All Blacks

    April 18, 2007

    CARL Hayman, widely regarded as the world's best prop, is to join a growing New Zealand All Blacks exodus to the northern hemisphere rugby after this year's World Cup.

    The New Zealand Rugby Union (NZRU) admitted today it was getting tougher to hold off European raids on its leading players as 27-year-old Hayman announced he will link with English club Newcastle Falcons.

    A veteran of 35 Tests, Hayman will join fellow All Blacks Aaron Mauger and Byron Kelleher in moving to Europe with Chris Jack, Rico Gear, Anton Oliver and Luke McAlister also poised to move overseas after the World Cup.

    "His services will be sorely missed," said NZRU deputy chief executive Steve Tew.

    "We put the very best possible offer in front of Carl and we are grateful that he gave it serious consideration.

    "In the end, he had to consider a number of factors in making his decision.

    "The incredible amounts of money on offer in the UK and France are making it increasingly difficult for the NZRU to compete on straight dollar terms despite tremendous commercial support from our partners."

    All Blacks coach Graham Henry said Hayman's decision was also influenced by longevity and lifestyle factors.

    "I think Carl would like to get out of the international spotlight for a while and sees this move as the best way to extend his time in the game," Henry said.

    AAP

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    Champion Contributor jazza93's Avatar
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    can they still play for all blacks?

    wow that would make the super14 even i hope it happens

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    Legend Contributor Flamethrower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgs
    You could argue that a couple of teams already resemble that comment in 2007

    Which teams would that be, Burgs???

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    The lower 1/7th would be a good place to start looking...

    Jazza, currently the Kiwis have the same selection policy as us in to be eligible for International you need to play in your country.
    Australia is a little tighter in that to play Super 14 you need to be eligible to play for the Wallabies as well.
    I don't want them to leave just to make our chances better, we need the best possible opposition to make us stronger.

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    Champion Skiza's Avatar
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    I wonder if News Limited will try and say that it'll cost them TV ratings and money? Just joking!........at least some other players will have the chance to stamp their mark on the game.

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    Jazza although this thread refers to All Blacks I think the point being made is that other S14 "stars" are also jumping ship. Quite a few of your fellow Aussies have confirmed moves abroad and many South Africans play in Europe already. Do you really want the NZ teams to lose the best tallent abroad just to give others a better chance in the S14?

    I agree that something needs to happen soon to prevent the further watering down of S14. Now you could say that a solution would be for Europe to adopt the same criteria as S14 and remove the incentive to move abroad (i.e. only European players can play) but as we are constrained by the freedom of movement and workforce regulations that is impractical (already we are being asked to review the regulation that allows only one "Foreign" player to start a game).

    Burgs this is a story getting a lot of coverage my side of the world with two very separate points of view coming out.

    The Newcastle Falcons fans are as you might expect delighted to have attracted someone regarded as the best tighthead in the world, even at the very high price of 350,000 per season.

    Other fans are amazed firstly at how the Falcons are able to pay this fee yet remain within the salary cap (currently around 2m per club to cover a sqaud of 40 players - rising next year I believe) but secondly why they would sign another NZ prop (they already have McDonnell as Loose head) knowing that only one can start each game. You might remember Burke changed nationality earlier this year for that very reason.

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    And it continues...


    All Black joins northern exodus

    From correspondents in Wellington
    April 21, 2007


    NEW Zealand lock Chris Jack, 28, has signed to play for England club side Saracens, joining an exodus of All Blacks following this year's rugby World Cup.

    The 2.02me, 115kg Jack told a media conference it has been a difficult decision to quit New Zealand rugby, but he has decided to put his wife and family first.

    Jack has been with top Super 14 side Canterbury Crusaders since 1999, playing 87 matches for the defending champion.

    Crusaders' coach Robbie Deans said Jack's departure would be a huge loss for the team and New Zealand rugby, but no-one would begrudge him and wife Kym an opportunity to see the world.

    During his time with the Crusaders, Jack shared in five Super rugby titles and two other finals.

    He also won the national domestic championship with Canterbury in 2001 and 2004.

    Jack made the All Blacks in 2001, was player of the year in 2002 and is the fourth most-capped lock forward in All Black history, with 57 caps.

    He damaged a hamstring last month playing against the New South Wales Waratahs, but is expected to return to the Crusaders line-up before the end of the Super 14 season.

    Jack's departure adds to a growing list of All Blacks heading overseas following the World Cup.

    Prop Carl Hayman has announced he will play for Newcastle, halfback Byron Kelleher is heading to France side Agen, while Aaron Mauger, Luke McAlister, Anton Oliver and Rico Gear have also been linked with northern hemisphere clubs.

    The New Zealand Rugby Union (NZRU) admitted earlier this week that it was getting tougher to hold off European raids on its All Blacks roster.

    "The incredible amounts of money on offer in the UK and France are making it increasingly difficult for the NZRU to compete on straight dollar terms, despite tremendous commercial support from our partners," said deputy chief executive Steve Tew.

    Agence France-Presse

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    Veteran Contributor frontrow's Avatar
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    There is a lot of turmoil beginning to come to a head over the ditch, pride in the jersey is a thing of the past with big dollars now being the main objective...But you can't begrudge earning a living for the family so good luck to them, maybe NZ will need to look at the $$$ on offer instead of getting on the dark side of the financial heavyweights by holding the best players out of the top shelf competition. They may need more financial help which would not be forthcoming next time...SANZAR are still in the sh*t as far as i know thanks to the kiwis...

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    Wake up, we've got crisis on our hands

    Yahoo!Xtra
    24/04/2007
    Marc Hinton


    New Zealand rugby is hurtling towards a crisis point over the departure of our leading rugby talent chasing the filthy lucre on offer up north.

    There is no other conclusion to draw, particularly following in the wake of this week's revelation that All Black tighthead prop Carl Hayman is off to join Newcastle for the next two years to play his rugby for a drab team in a dismal town in a fairly dreary competition.

    This is a man who I can tell you once told his partner that he'd never shift to Auckland because he didn't want to compromise his lifestyle.

    So he's off to Newcastle instead. Hmmm.

    But I have to say I can't blame Hayman one iota for jumping at the offer the Falcons waved under his nose, said to be worth close to $1 million a year. That's not bad coinage for a bloke who essentially sticks his head down and bum in the air for a living.

    But I believe this latest signing should have the alarm bells ringing loud and clear, not just at NZRU headquarters in windy Wellington, but everywhere round our fine country. If we can't keep the likes of Carl Hayman in this country, what chance have we got with any of his All Black mates?

    Does that mean Dan Carter will be taking his Jockeys to the catwalks of Milan and Paris? That Richie McCaw will find some rabble stuck at the foot of the UK Premiership to lead out of trouble?

    Don't think I'm joking either. New Zealand rugby is in grave danger of essentially becoming a development league for the rich European competition - and a rebel one at that, the way things are shaping in the north - unless something drastic is done fast.

    Let's just recap a little before we ponder what can and cannot be done.

    Who's gone already? As well as Hayman, Aaron Mauger to Leicester, Byron Kelleher to Agen, Sam Tuitupou to Worcester, Anton Oliver to somewhere in France (well, it wouldn't be England now, would it?) and Chris Jack to Saracens have all confirmed, or as good as confirmed, they're off.

    And it's being strongly rumoured that Luke McAlister and Rico Gear are set to follow suit.

    Others such as Doug Howlett, Sitiveni Sivivatu, Ma'a Nonu, Jimmy Cowan, Clarke Dermody and Josh Blackie are also either weighing up, or have decided to accept, offers before them.

    And these guys are just the tip of the iceberg. There are many more set to follow.

    Still in their pomp.

    Two things concern me about this latest crop of departing stars - firstly that a lot of them are right in the prime of their careers and leave when they still have much to offer the New Zealand game.

    It's all very well waving goodbye to Justin Marshall and his oversized ego and underspeed pass once he's served his time, but the likes of Hayman, McAlister, and Tuitupou are fellows still on the upside of their careers. Still in their pomp.

    Also these are some players fairly intrinsic to the All Blacks' cause we are taking about.

    Hayman, the best tighthead prop in the world by a country mile, ranks alongside Carter and McCaw to my way of thinking as the cornerstones of the All Blacks. That some way can't be found to keep him in New Zealand is a major worry.

    To my way of thinking an almighty scramble should be taking place as you read this to prevent McAlister taking up the offer he has before him. The kid is talented, sure, but he's also the only quality second five likely to be left standing in New Zealand once Mauger and Tuitupou depart.

    OK, so we've established we have a problem. Because, let's face it, even though these departures will just create openings for more young talent, what's the use, if all they're going to be is the next wave of top signings for the boys up north.

    But what can we do?

    Well not a lot directly if the NZRU's parlous coffers are any guide.

    But to me this situation calls for some thinking outside the square. How about the Government coming on board with some sort of a tax break, which is what they do in Ireland to keep their top men in the country?

    Also, surely it's time for the corporates to get heavily involved. It's not like the NZRU has a salary cap to fit under.

    So why don't our leading international companies get a top All Black each for $1 million a year, for which they get to use them for promotional campaigns, and we get to keep them in this country?

    It's time Steve Tew and his mates in Wellington started thinking more along those lines.

    High time.

    And two last thoughts before I leave you.

    While these raft of defections are certainly a blight on our game in New Zealand, we should not necessarily presume it's the opposite effect up north.

    While top clubs in England and France are stacking their clubs with Kiwi talent, what of their own players who are finding less and less playing spots open to them? This will be doing nothing at all to help the cause of their national teams - a situation that doesn't concern the clubs at all who are secure knowing they've got top New Zealanders who aren't available for test rugby anyway.

    In fact, this whole circus could be a step towards the depowering of test rugby as we know it.

    And how is it that Australia seems able to resist this curse? Surely it's not solely that their players are that bad. I'd suggest our mates across the ditch have got their heads around the whole issue of player-retention a heck of a lot better than we have.

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    Immortal Contributor shasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgs
    Wake up, we've got crisis on our hands

    Yahoo!Xtra
    24/04/2007
    Marc Hinton

    Two things concern me about this latest crop of departing stars - firstly that a lot of them are right in the prime of their careers and leave when they still have much to offer the New Zealand game.
    This is the real worry. With the "decline" of full Test Tours and the rise in profile of the RWC, established players can see a window to "cash in" during the three years in between.

    NZ may well have the depth to cover player those losses but we might see a rapid decline in interest in S14 therefore a loss of interest from Pay TV, less money from TV rights, less for player payments................................

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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgs
    Wake up, we've got crisis on our hands

    Yahoo!Xtra
    24/04/2007
    Marc Hinton


    "the filthy lucre on offer up north."

    "a drab team in a dismal town in a fairly dreary competition."

    " a bloke who essentially sticks his head down and bum in the air for a living."

    " some rabble stuck at the foot of the UK Premiership to lead out of trouble?"

    "Justin Marshall and his oversized ego and underspeed pass"

    "Surely it's not solely that their players are that bad."
    Is this Hinton bloke really that far up his own backside or am I just feeling touchy this morning? What an arogant shit!

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    Senior Player NeoGirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkizaWWE
    at least some other players will have the chance to stamp their mark on the game.
    Yeah, but then it'll make some players think that teams are desperate for players and the higher quaility players will think they don't have to do really well to get on the team, then the lesser quaility players will do a one off and we end up with a bad team.
    Quote Originally Posted by SkizaWWE
    I wonder if News Limited will try and say that it'll cost them TV ratings and money? Just joking!........
    Actually I think they would.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flat-top
    Is this Hinton bloke really that far up his own backside or am I just feeling touchy this morning? What an arogant shit!
    Probably both mate

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    Player Contributor Flat-top's Avatar
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    Would just love to be in the room when he bumped into Carl Hayman and tried to laugh that one off.

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    Levi breaks: another Kiwi chases yen

    Tuesday, May 1, 2007

    Highlanders forward Filipo Levi has signed a two-year contract to play for Japanese club Ricoh.

    Levi, 27, is the third player from the Otago-based Highlanders Super 14 rugby side to confirm a move overseas following All Black prop Carl Hayman, who will join Newcastle in England and flanker Josh Blackie, who is moving to Japanese club Kobe Steel.

    Levi, who also played for Otago in the domestic provincial championship, will leave after the Highlanders' final match of the season Saturday against the Brumbies.

    "I was given an opportunity that was too good to turn down," Filipo said on Tuesday.

    Levi has played 70 games for Otago since 2000 and 66 for the Highlanders since 2002, mostly at lock.

    He has played Test rugby for the Pacific Islands and will be available to play for Samoa in this year's World Cup.

    Veteran Highlanders hooker Anton Oliver is in his final season for the Highlanders and is expected to move overseas, while halfback Jimmy Cowan and prop Clarke Dermody are also tipped to take up overseas contracts.

    AFP

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