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Thread: Wooden spoon battle 'embarrassing'

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    Wooden spoon battle 'embarrassing'

    Wooden spoon battle 'embarrassing'

    By Peter Jenkins
    April 12, 2007


    FORMER Australia stars have branded this season's stunning collapse of New South Wales and Queensland as "tragic" and "embarrassing".
    The one-time highlight of the domestic provincial calendar - a traditional showdown with 125 years of history - looms on Saturday night as the scrap to avoid the Super 14 wooden spoon.

    "I'm saddened to think it's been reduced to a battle for the wooden spoon," legendary five-eighth Mark Ella said.

    "No one in their right mind would have predicted this six months ago.

    "It's tragic. It's a nothing game. There's a lot of rivalry there from the past but these guys are playing for pride and little else. It's terrible for Australian rugby.

    "I just hope NSW and Queensland learn from this. But what is going to happen between now and next year to make sure it doesn't happen again?"

    Former Queensland back rower Sam Scott-Young said the long-time ill-feeling between the states would hopefully lift them out of their form slumps.

    They have each won only one of nine matches this season - both successful in round one in the first week of February.

    NSW and Queensland have since played a combined 16 games without victory.

    "It's a bit embarrassing for the two former superpowers to be lining up as wooden spooners," Scott-Young said.

    "But regardless of what has happened this year, if anyone who pulls on a Reds or NSW jumper this weekend isn't bursting with pride for the game, then they really shouldn't be out there.

    "I'll be hoping it has all that traditional fire and brimstone.

    "If it doesn't, then cancel the season fast."

    Scott-Young blamed the arrival of Western Force last season, and its recruitment of eastern seaboard players, for the struggles of the Waratahs and the Reds.

    "I know we needed a Perth team, but it was always going to hit hard," he said.

    "It has shown up the depth.

    "But, by the same token, the ARU should give up on spending all this money on rugby league players and start directing it towards nurturing our own players coming through the ranks. It's an ego trip from the ARU."

    Former Queensland second rower Rod McCall agreed with Scott-Young that the "care factor" would be high for both teams at Aussie Stadium.

    "It's all about desire," he said.

    "So I think it will be tight.

    "I can't see the NSW forwards dominating us, and if (Waratahs full-back) Peter Hewat keeps playing the way he has been, we're in with a chance."

    Waratahs and Wallabies legend Simon Poidevin was concerned by recent comments from rival coaches Eddie Jones and Ewen McKenzie that suggested there were question marks over their players' attitudes.

    "If the belief and the passion isn't there for the jersey you play in, then all else fails," he said.

    "Both sides have the chance to answer that rightfully-asked question this weekend. And I think it makes this one of the more important interstate games in decades.

    "Forget the excuses about injuries. Every side gets them. People have also argued about the Force coming in and NSW and Queensland losing players to them. But no one was saying that last year, which was when most of those players went."

    Poidevin also wondered about the effectiveness of the academies in NSW and Queensland, and their tendency to "cotton wool" emerging players who have been forced this year to step into the breach.

    "When they play meaningless NSW A or Queensland A matches, do they get up for those games thinking they're playing for their lives?" he said.

    "This weekend, if you've got pride in yourself as a player, you are playing for your life."

    Former NSW and Australia full-back Glen Ella had no doubt Queensland would be ready for confrontation.

    "They have always used this game as a benchmark," he said.

    "There are still some people up there who will think they've had good year if they beat NSW.

    "There is no doubt the intensity will be full on. There is pride and Test places at stake. (Reds flanker) David Croft will no doubt be throwing a few punches early, trying to stir up NSW.

    "But it's definitely disappointing they're probably fighting for the wooden spoon. That would be devastating for either state."

    Ella tipped NSW, and dyed-in-the-wool Queenslander Scott-Young almost agreed.

    "On form I'd have to say, and this will be a first ..." he started.

    "On second thoughts no, I can't do it ... Queensland by three."

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    Rookie Vanilla Ice's Avatar
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    Have a feeling that the lack of acrimony and banter from ex-players is ironically going to end up in one of the most bitter and nasty matches for the ages. Neither team has form or talent. It'll be all knees and elbows. A real slugfest. Classic rugby. Force fans will hate it.

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    To the extreme !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanilla Ice
    It'll be all knees and elbows. A real slugfest. Classic rugby. Force fans will hate it.
    Why so VI?
    Are you suggesting Force fans can't appreciate and old style slug fest?
    Force "fans" I guess may not but there are plenty of purist Force "supporters" who love all forms of the code who will be looking forward to it.

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    I think you're misguided VI - it is like a union version of state of origin, it will be an awesome game. The Reds always manage to lift when playing NSW!!

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    Veteran Contributor frontrow's Avatar
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    I definately appreciate rugby in all forms, often loving the Ugly game over the other...Bring it on, and bring the passion boiling over...Bring back the biff too...

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    We're right behind you

    Greg Growden
    Friday, April 13, 2007


    Queensland coach Eddie Jones and his NSW counterpart, Ewen McKenzie, are adamant their poor relationship with Wallabies coach John Connolly will not derail Australia's World Cup campaign.

    Instead, the pair argue that they have done, and will do, everything they can to ensure the Wallabies are winners in France in September-October.

    When Australia won the World Cup tournaments in 1991 and 1999, the provinces overcame their differences and banded as one for the Wallabies cause. However, the 2007 Wallabies campaign is a more fractious affair, with Jones and Connolly having not talked for months, while McKenzie is also suspicious of the national coach.

    The frigidity of the relationship was on show yesterday when Jones reiterated that he would not be attending today's peace-pipe meeting with Connolly and Australian Rugby Union chief Gary Flowers because he had to prepare the Reds for tomorrow night's match against the Waratahs at Aussie Stadium.

    Jones and McKenzie were yesterday involved in a special NSW Rugby Union podcast at Aussie Stadium, and their difficult dealings with Connolly were soon discussed.

    When Jones was asked if his conflict with Connolly could cause problems during a World Cup campaign, he replied: "It's not a problem with me. I've just got to coach Queensland, and he has to coach the Wallabies.

    "Everyone is making this big hoo-ha about it but if we are allowed to get on with our job there is no issue. I've got four games left, and he's got five months to go. I think it would be better if we had a better relationship. But provincial coaches don't control that. The damage has been done.

    " I know all the provinces have been following the right medical protocol. All the provinces have been following the strength and conditioning protocol. It's more on the personal relationship where there's been a falling out.

    "Still, at the end of the day, when we hand our players over, I'm sure Ewen, [Force coach] John Mitchell, [ACT coach] Laurie Fisher and myself are confident they are in a good condition. And that's our job for the Wallabies."

    McKenzie said he had been eager to have the Test coaching staff involved with NSW this year - with Wallabies forwards coach Michael Foley and Connolly's assistant Scott Johnson regular visitors to Waratahs training.

    "We've had all the Wallabies assistant coaches attending and talking to our players," McKenzie said. "We haven't stopped anyone who has wanted to come and look. Certain aspects have been difficult, but overall we have tried to support the Wallabies.

    "We will continue to support them because we each want as many of our blokes in the Test team as possible."

    And despite the doom and gloom of the two oldest Australian provinces being 13th and last on the Super 14 ladder, Jones and McKenzie believe the Wallabies have the potential to enjoy World Cup success.

    "The World Cup is about three games in a row - quarter-final, semi-final and final," McKenzie said. "Yellow cards, referees can all work for or against us. But we have plenty of good players. And despite NSW and Queensland's position on the ladder, we have still unearthed players.

    "There are options out there. It is really whether the Wallabies pick a conservative, known team or have a punt in a few positions."

    Jones, who took the 2003 Wallabies to the World Cup final, said Australia had the advantage of an easy pool.

    " They should beat Wales, who are not a strong side at the moment," Jones said. "Then it's possibly a quarter-final against England, who are dreadful. Then you're in a semi-final, and it's do your best."

    Jones added that in tomorrow night's match, Queensland must stop NSW back-rower Rocky Elsom, rating him as the Waratahs' most consistent player this season.

    "If we can quieten him down, we will quieten NSW to a great degree," Jones said. "Whilst he hasn't been influential in winning games, he has been influential in keeping NSW up. He's probably the most improved player in Australia.

    "I like the way he plays. He, along with Adam Freier, captures the spirit of the NSW team. And in these games the blokes who capture the spirit of the team are very important."

    The Reds coach added that his captain, John Roe, "has been our Elsom, because he's been the bloke who's held us together and kept us in games".

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    Veteran Contributor The EnForcer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frontrow
    I definately appreciate rugby in all forms, often loving the Ugly game over the other...Bring it on, and bring the passion boiling over...Bring back the biff too...
    I'm with you fronrow......even though both teams are playing well below there best there is absolutely no excuse for a lacklustre game. If there is passion, and there should be on both sides, then the game should be a doozy.

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    Legend Contributor Thequeerone's Avatar
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    As both teams are roughly equal - it should be a corker - espesically with all that passion about - at the moment I see the Reds as the most likely to produce the next crop of Wallabies for 2011 - they have blooded so many this year and I respect Eddie Jones enough to suspect he has a few diamonds in the rough there

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    To go with the then senior Force players TQ1

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    Legend Contributor Thequeerone's Avatar
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    Ah no going on current from the reds won't spot em and we'ill get em for the FORCE

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    Champion Skiza's Avatar
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    The fact of the matter is one team has to come last on the ladder in this competition and whoever it is just needs to get over it and put in next year so that its someone else and not their team!

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    ugly rugby is real rugby. i takes balls to play 'ugly' rugby. you need a real forward pack of rugby players not a forward pack of athletes. i love ugly rugby. best to play worst to watch

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    Immortal GIGS20's Avatar
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    I disagree Pruc,There's nothing better than watching the old personal vendetta develop at the breakdown, I've hated every game I've seen this weekend, all of them open high scoring tryfests. Id rather watch a good old-fashioned arm wrestle with a bit of passion. That appears to be the difference during this tour, the passion seems to have disappeared.

    I'd think the 'Tahs are going to take it out, but hopefully by less than a try.

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    C'mon the

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    Aren't you and pruc actually agreeing there GIGST???

    It's funny how, with three rounds to come, that the assumption is that this match has decided the wooden spoon.
    That the Tahs will win more than the Reds, or at least gain more points.
    They quite possibly will but it is a bit harsh to sign off on it with up to fifteen points still up for grabs!
    The Waratahs have yet to play the Highlanders, Chiefs and Hurricanes.
    The Reds have the Cheetahs, Stormers and Bulls.

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