Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 26

Thread: What's wrong with scrums?

  1. #1
    Legend Contributor
    Moderator
    Happy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    JB O'Reilly's
    Posts
    8,172
    vCash
    5000000

    What's wrong with scrums?

    While watching the Red's Chiefs game on saturday during my time on the couch sobering up I came to the following two conclusions.

    1st is that the tight fitting "you can't grab me" jersey is causing the forwards to struggle to bind with their opposition. I noticed quite a few times both the Aust and Kiwi forwards loose their bind or not even get one at all during their scrums. On quite a few occasions. Maybe going back to the bigger baggier jersey is a way to go ?

    2nd is the difference between the ref's. Who ever was reffing the above game (can't be arsed looking it up) did a much better job than others I have seen recently in his" crouch, touch, pause engage" calls.

    I noticed he called them in a very fluid fast(ish) and constant motion, while some games I have seen here at Subi the pause call was very long.

    So that tells me either the ref at Subi was doing it correctly and the pause is not helping the game at all, or the ref in Suncorp was not doing the call properly and as such when they did bind, the scrums were much better!!!

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Chuck Norris has the greatest Poker-Face of all time. He won the 1983 World Series of Poker, despite holding only a Joker, a Get out of Jail Free Monopoly card, a 2 of clubs, 7 of spades and a green #4 card from the game Uno.

  2. #2
    Veteran Contributor frontrow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Perth/ Area C Newman
    Posts
    3,495
    vCash
    5000000
    Interesting points you raised mate, and i agree with both...Hard to get a grip on someones shoulder when the jumper is usually stuck to the other props body, maybe a flap should be added to the 1 and 3 jumper for this purpose, and reserve props as well...
    maybe....
    As for the calls, i have always believed the scrums engage better when there is less time between calls, and this is an area where the referees association let themselves down in a big way....They introduce the new laws without addressing the issue of the call, therefore problems still exist where the new rules have been shown to work when used correctly...as they were on the weekend in the Reds game...And don't forget that herman Hunt was also injured and still managed to be competetive for almost the whole game...So the refs really need to sychronise the calls, ie, short and sharp is the way to go...

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Proudly bought to you by a brewery somewhere....

  3. #3
    Immortal Contributor
    Moderator
    Burgs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Country WA
    Posts
    22,644
    vCash
    336000
    Just a quick observation.
    I agree that there is a particular NZ Ref who seems to have a better control on the scrum though I too have missed his name.
    However, the sequence of the call is also impacted on wether the Frontrows are ready for the Ref to continue the call. Ie, he can't continue to "Touch" if both frontrows haven't achieved "Crouch".
    Perhaps the speed to form up is what needs policing so that the packs are established far quicker without the pigs bludging across from 40m away or going to ground to wait for some magic water.
    Certainly there seems a greater emphasis on time for setting lineouts than scrums and you don't seem to get the same "injury" delays there.
    As a whole I still think the changes are for the best and a good Prop while still be able to establish an advantage and exploit the weaker opposition.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    "Bloody oath we did!"

    Nathan Sharpe, Legend.

  4. #4
    Champion prop53's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Yanchep
    Posts
    2,366
    vCash
    5000000
    In the good old days we use to set the scrums even before the ref was even there, ok maybe not as nice looking as todays scrums but effective. That little further apart gives the time also for the packs to line up and engage correctly.Which seems to be the main problem as i have said before. The closer the engage the more towards league scrums we are heading to. Have the no 8 binding in the scrum to start with not this pulling back and crushing inwards. That alone would would pull back the props as they are trying to engage. it is the props who are the engine room of the scrum and therefore should have control of the scrum. Oh bring back the good old days.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  5. #5
    Legend Contributor Thequeerone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Wanneroo
    Posts
    5,348
    vCash
    5000000
    When will this happen - it's wk 8?

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    61 years between Grand Slams Was the wait worth it - Ya betta baby

  6. #6
    Veteran Contributor frontrow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Perth/ Area C Newman
    Posts
    3,495
    vCash
    5000000
    Just read this article, pretty relevent to this thread, even if it is Trestle whinging....http://www.rugbyheaven.smh.com.au/ar...761279310.html

    Quote Originally Posted by prop53
    In the good old days we use to set the scrums even before the ref was even there, ok maybe not as nice looking as todays scrums but effective. That little further apart gives the time also for the packs to line up and engage correctly.Which seems to be the main problem as i have said before. The closer the engage the more towards league scrums we are heading to. Have the no 8 binding in the scrum to start with not this pulling back and crushing inwards. That alone would would pull back the props as they are trying to engage. it is the props who are the engine room of the scrum and therefore should have control of the scrum. Oh bring back the good old days.
    Oh, for the good old days...

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Last edited by frontrow; 26-03-07 at 11:37. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
    Proudly bought to you by a brewery somewhere....

  7. #7
    Veteran Contributor The EnForcer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    2,645
    vCash
    5000000
    I thought I read somewhere that once the touch call had been made by the ref and they have touched then engagement can happen at any time without the pause being said. Sounds stupid but I'm sure I read that.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Just happy to be here

  8. #8
    Immortal Contributor
    Moderator
    Burgs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Country WA
    Posts
    22,644
    vCash
    336000
    Sorry mate, but anything that incldes Trestle making quotes makes me think the opposite is true

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    "Bloody oath we did!"

    Nathan Sharpe, Legend.

  9. #9
    Veteran Contributor frontrow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Perth/ Area C Newman
    Posts
    3,495
    vCash
    5000000
    I know that is the norm, but i actually agree with him regarding binding, god, i can't believe i am saying this....
    TEF, you must have the pause called, i don't think you can go from touch to engage otherwise, it'd be too dangerous as the opposing props may not be quite ready and accidents would happen...I don't know were you heard it, but i would say it is false info...

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Proudly bought to you by a brewery somewhere....

  10. #10
    Veteran Ecky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    2,891
    vCash
    5004000
    The new law specifically has 4 calls.

    If a ref calls differently then:

    a) He/she will get absolutely slated by their assessor (assuming we are talking a televised match) and

    b) All sorts of exposure to a liability claim from one of the participants in the scrum if an injury occurs.

    If (a) then the ref won't be seen on telly the following week
    If (b) then the ref won't be seen/heard/spoken about until after the court case. And every ref will be again reminded of the 4 calls and their importance.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  11. #11
    Legend Contributor
    Moderator
    Happy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    JB O'Reilly's
    Posts
    8,172
    vCash
    5000000
    watch 7 games over a weekend Ecky and tell me each Ref does the same thing with scrums!!! I'll buy you a pint if you proove me wrong!

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Chuck Norris has the greatest Poker-Face of all time. He won the 1983 World Series of Poker, despite holding only a Joker, a Get out of Jail Free Monopoly card, a 2 of clubs, 7 of spades and a green #4 card from the game Uno.

  12. #12
    Legend
    Apprentice Bookie
    Contributor .X.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    6,697
    vCash
    -14797739
    An interesting observation Happy.

    But I remember back to the 80's or 90's where there were Props that were cutting the sleeves from their Jerseys to prevent their opposite number from getting a good bind.

    I have said it on more then one occasion but I believe that the technique of current props is lacking from their 1980-90's counterparts. Also as long as we continue to have the law that says that if you can push a scrum "through 90" you gain the loose head and feed. Remove this rule from the laws of Rugby and there is an immediate change in the attitude of Scrums and how they are set.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

    Exile
    Sydney


    "Pain heels. Chicks dig scars and Glory lasts forever." Shane Falco

  13. #13
    Veteran Ecky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    2,891
    vCash
    5004000
    Quote Originally Posted by Happy
    watch 7 games over a weekend Ecky and tell me each Ref does the same thing with scrums!!! I'll buy you a pint if you proove me wrong!
    It's the calls I am saying that have to be the same. I am sure you are right that the ref in each game may vary a bit, especially with the gap between each call. And, as a result, the early engagement by players before he calls "engage". But the ref will call all four "commands", I'm betting.

    ...and herself will not let me watch all 7 games anyway...

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  14. #14
    Immortal Contributor
    Moderator
    travelling_gerry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia, Australia
    Posts
    18,483
    vCash
    5062000
    thats ok...only 6 this week anyway...

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  15. #15
    Veteran Contributor The EnForcer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    2,645
    vCash
    5000000
    Quote Originally Posted by frontrow
    I know that is the norm, but i actually agree with him regarding binding, god, i can't believe i am saying this....
    TEF, you must have the pause called, i don't think you can go from touch to engage otherwise, it'd be too dangerous as the opposing props may not be quite ready and accidents would happen...I don't know were you heard it, but i would say it is false info...
    Oops stupid me, memory not as good as it used to be. Here is what I read.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ecky
    The referee will call “crouch” then “touch”. The front rows crouch and using their outside arm each prop touches the point of the opposing prop’s outside shoulder. The props then withdraw their arms. The referee will then call “pause”. Following a pause the referee will then call “engage”. The front rows may then engage. The “engage” call is not a command but an indication that the front rows may come together when ready.
    Ok I got F'd up. What I meant was after the "pause" they go when they like. Not what Ecky is saying but certainly appears to be the law being followed. Am I right or am I blowing hot air again?

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Just happy to be here

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. 'I was wrong' about All Black Sivivatu
    By KenyaQuin in forum New Zealand
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 20-12-07, 09:19
  2. "Lookin' for answers in all the wrong places..."
    By Burgs in forum NSW Waratahs
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 18-06-07, 11:28
  3. Link talks scrums
    By Burgs in forum NSW Waratahs
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 03-04-07, 06:36
  4. New law to 'depower' scrums
    By Burgs in forum Rugby
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 04-12-06, 16:12

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •