Rookie Reds five-eighth 'better than Beale'

[Darren]

Probably just my eastern state bias

With a sig like that? Never crossed my mind

[Sagerian]

I don't think there's enough threads about eastern state bias, so thought I'd throw it out there.

Cooper did make some very good plays, but my eastern bias believes the Beale/Holmes pairing will be the next Larkham/Gregan.

[Burgs]

I think RWA and the Force is doing a pretty good job from what I've seen with regard to development to be fair.
It's pretty naive to think that Western Australia would just suddenly start sprouting Super 14 players because there is a group of professional players in residence.
While there will be a few come through the ranks of the current Academy and train on pool each year (bearing in mind they aren't all from WA anyway!), I believe we won't be seeing reliable numbers of players coming out of WA for another six or seven years when the standard has filtered right down the line to Colts and Schoolboys.
Melbourne is an interesting comparison to put forward in this as they do admittedly have far more current Super 14 players.
Considering that WA regularly beat Victoria would be interesting to know how many of these players claimed by Melbourne actually had their development there.
I know some have, I don't deny that, however many grew up there and then moved to Sydney or Brisbane in their senior schooling years and enjoyed the benefit of competing against a higher standard of peers.
I recall in my Schoolboys Under 15 team, we were a pretty good team by WA standards but got cleaned up by a single Sydney Zone of Schoolboys/Juniors that toured to WA. Edmondstone from memory...
The point is that the depth is far greater in the East, there will always be too many talented players for the three Eastern State teams and, once this early recruitment phase has settled then it will be a level playing field to recruit the best you can for the playing positions available.
We can be certain that the other three teams will be snooping around our Schoolboys and Juniors trial days and Colts matches in the years to come!

[Sagerian]

It's pretty naive to think that Western Australia would just suddenly start sprouting Super 14 players because there is a group of professional players in residence.

Very true, and lucky cos I never said that. I'm merely hoping they can keep the chequebook on that side of the country now and then.

[Burgs]

That's the point, they are spending in WA for the future, but we have to be viable until that happens.
There is a career path straight through from Under whatever's to the Wallabies within WA, something I wouldn't have even dreamed of when I was playing at school. And there are all sorts of layers of development throughout the Metro area and around the rugby areas of the state fostering the code and identifying the future talent pool.
I don't think anyone is surprised that the talent is a little thin on the ground for all four teams, what is disappointing though is the way that some officials are portraying the Force as the bad guys for just playing the recruitment game that was started when the code went pro and sped up when the Brumbies came in.
Let's face it, it is only 33 players out of the 29,100 men and 17,100 teenage boys that play the sport in this country.
A twenty six man squad of Under 19's has been announced today to represent this country and only two of them are contracted (both to the Reds) to a Super 14 franchise. The other twenty four will be aspiring to be selected in an Academy or Squad.
Yet none were selected from WA. So are we supposed to select Under 19 recruits for the Force that can't even make the National Squad, neglecting those who did, or do we pick from the Squad along with the other three teams and slowly build our base.
It is unfair to be portraying WA Rugby as being all cheque book and no development, there is no shortage of development going on, we just haven’t got the average to Australian standards as yet.
That will come and, when it does, there will be competition for our most promising players too.

[AndyS]

"...it is only 33 players out of the 29,100 men and 17,100 teenage boys that play the sport in this country..."

Quite - so who is to blame for a lack of depth, the new team or whoever has contributed to the enormous gap between club and S14. Take a bow anyone who had a role in preventing any form of national competition until 10 years into the professional era.

[Burgs]

Tipping they don't live in Western Australia Andy

[O'Regan]

[quote=AndyS]"...it is only 33 players out of the 29,100 men and 17,100 teenage boys that play the sport in this country..."
quote]

Im one of those boys!

I will Urge you to look out for Luke Evans, he is a half back, plays in the QLD academy, and is only 18, so look out for him, also take a look For Matt To'omoua, looking very flash this year, and rumour has it he has signed with the Brumbies. So I am looking foward to seeing him this year, Sage it is too early to say who will be the pairing for the Wallabies once the Gregan/ Larkham era is over, who knows what the new Aussie Coach after John Connolly will say, or even John Conolly.

HOping for Mitchell to be the coach though.

[MysticBalls]

As we all will do at sometime, you got baited by that one Sage. But I do have to agree, leave our bloody youngun's alone !! Let em develop, at last some good news for Reds!

Cooper only came to Qld at age 16 from you guessed it- NZ. He's born and bred for good rugby. Barnes was terrific last year and played beyond his years, in a team with its back to the wall. He'll really hit his straps with Cooper inside, and they did swap around during Saturdays game, and manned either side of the ruck and scrum.

Genia looked promising too and will get more game, as Berry gets knocked around a bit. So it all may fall as Burgs has predicted. But I have to really disagree about Johansson who has cost us games already with his missed tackles. Bring in another outside centre (H)Eddie.

OK page 2. Yes when Melbourne gets a guernsey in S16 ? , then Sage can send them a missive about chequebook recruitment, but would they qualify as eastern staters? Here in Bris we think of them as SOUTHERN staters ! And the 'Tahs and Brumbies are still pinching Qlders ! After we were decimated by the Force ! And yes Sage, we still want Tuqiri back ! And Dell when he's drug free !

Which is the kettle, the pot or the black?

As Burgs has outlined, rugby development in a state is really kickstarted by the acquisition of a S14 franchise, which takes around 7 years to come to fruition re locals filling the team. Until then, its open slather on the open market. Qld and NSW will continue to shoulder the load for a while yet. The end result will be stronger rugby in Oz.

[Sagerian]

As we all will do at sometime, you got baited by that one Sage.

Where was this? I've been baited many times but not really in this thread.


-EDIT-


Wow you seem to really like me, you can't stop talking about me in that post! You've got a few NSW players too in the QLD ranks, that wasn't my point. All I said was that they should work with the core players they have now and focus on development..

Yes I was clearly the one baited.

[MysticBalls]

Force need to pinch a couple of them for the years to come...Barnes would be awesome to have.

Was the bait. I'll refer to you as Crap Rainbows in the future OK

[Sagerian]

Err, ok. Whatever floats your boat. As long as I'm a mod, maybe you shouldn't, name calling is a pretty low form of wit.


And my reply to that post was that it summed up the "collect the whole set" mentality of some, hardly biting to bait.

[GIGS20]

Fight Fight Fight!

I agree with Burgs on this one, our S14 franchise is the first one to set up in an area where rugby is a virtual unknown as a code, the media don't rate it, the corporate world has only recently (2006) hit the bandwagon and community rugby has limited (but extremely compassionate) support. Added to this is an extremely parochial but short-tempered public, it'll take YEARS for WA to develop a decent amount of talent (ie a FULL team) until then, we need to collect talent wisely from wherever it exists. I suspect Mitch will buy talent from east in 2008, I don't think that's wrong, I suspect every other Aussie franchise will buy talent from outside it's borders in 2008, welcome to the 21st century!

[O'Regan]

Yeah I think we should let these players develop and not throw them into the scene at such a young age, when most of there's appearance has came from Schoolboys.

[TOCC]

Well, in my eyes the reports are true.
Very impressed by what I saw from the young man tonight.
Had far more influence on tonights match than Beale did last night and played a far more solid brand of Rugby.
Set up and scored the first try and joined in the two man ruck clean out with O'Donoghue to create the second try.
Stronger in defence than Beale and doesn't have the cringe factor of looking like he's going to get taken out as discussed last night.
Purely on this weekends relative performances then if Beale is a must to make France (paraphrasing Growden) then it is only because Cooper has already been picked or injured!
The pairing with Barnes was also successful and when Berry went off early a glimpse of a future Wallabies combination was unvieled with possibly the youngest ever inside combination in Super Rugby of #9 Will Genia (19 years), #10 Quade Cooper (18 years) & 12. Berrick Barnes (20 years).
The Reds are still a way of hitting their straps (hopefully at least two weeks anyway!) but when they do they will be an exciting unit to watch.

Always interesting digging up old posts
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