Taskforce Advised Rectangular Stadium Sustainable

[Egan]

That would mean two side stands of approx 11,928 and two end stands of 5,556?
I don't know the numbers on each wing of Subiaco but as an AFL Ground they are much longer than a Rugby Ground.

On top of that, if you happen to be one of the extra 2,037 who came to the Brumbies match, don't bother following Rugby anymore, we don't have room for you!

I'm sure Super Egan will come in with some Earth shattering stat however, I just can't see the benefit to the Force and Rugby in Western Australia of having such a small, expansion stifling ground if we are building it from new?

The stadium will not be developed from new if it was on the MES site. For 31,000 the stadium would be two tiers on the southern, eastern and northern side of the ground.

With the remaining Fred D Book Stand and some minor development next to it.

I would then hope for a Football World Cup bid into the future they would build a 3 tier stand to get a capacity of around 40-50,000 people.

Burgso, I would love a 50,000 Rectangular stadium.

The prospect of it happening though.

Is nill.

So I have dragged my singular brain cell back down to earth

[Burgs]

Can you at LEAST admit Egan, that it is stupid to be building/renovating a stadium with (assuming 30k) a smaller capacity than the existing crowds we seen turn up to three of eight matches ever hosted by this new team?
Surely you can see/concede that point

[The EnForcer]

The stadium will not be developed from new if it was on the MES site.

So how come the Town of Vincent was asked by the taskforce to submit a proposal for the complete redevelopment of MES? Where is this information of yours coming from?

If you make statements such as "The stadium will not be developed from new if it was on the MES site." then you should qualify it by saying it's your opinion or state where this information is coming from.

[Happy]

Can you at LEAST admit Egan, that it is stupid to be building/renovating a stadium with (assuming 30k) a smaller capacity than the existing crowds we seen turn up to three of eight matches ever hosted by this new team?
Surely you can see/concede that point

more members than seats would raise the price of tickets

[The EnForcer]

I think one of the issues we tend to forget is that corporate facilities is just as important to the sustainability of The force franchise as general seating in the proposed stadium.

I can't see how an expansion of MES will provide the corporate facilities we require. I will be delighted with a new 35k seater stadium on the MES site with corporate facilities suitable for our needs as long as we have a design which allows for future expansion. If we plan for it to be completed by say January 2009 then we may get it by mid 2010. (Are Multiplex on the bid list )

[Burgs]

Let's get a little context to what this means for TWF Members as well.
A smaller ground will mean more of it percentage wise will be filled by the existing (and sold out) Corporate, Diamond and Gold Members, then followed by Silver.
So, working off the Subiaco Seating map on our front page, unless the following TWF Members are prepared to upgrade to Silver ASAP there is a very strong likelyhood that you will be watching on TV.
So, in advance, thanks for joining us the following twelve:

Iron:
vortextua
niggle
spine
force9
peterss
htbd
the_kiwi_guy
soaks15
Emma
helbob53
chrisclay91
shearer

And good luck to the following sixty, hope you can find a seat:
Nickle:
Egan
Irish Welsh boyo
Blakey
jargan83
JPR
Glingx
hatchie
alogan
btk
chilli1
Gilly63
scottf
russellmetham
force wiil rock u!
luke_the_pom
Thequeerone
Joel
troy_the_oz
wellsy
rugbynut
corben
shedhead
$1mon1
Rowan83
SirSpence
jemma passmore
Dave C
Catrina Menzies
Dobby
GHOST
Ross Cardy
kipper_mckinnon
Weebie
chibi
barmy the sparky
rugby78
Goffy
billted
cedric rainwater
BruceN
dcarosin
freo_pete
Force06
Guido
JohnBoy
The Svien
TheGnome
Masie
Stormtrooper
warney
cheljeff@bigpond.net.au
chucknuckles
B.O'D is God
donny
Gunner
bluearmy
funksoulbruffa
herkit
Jane Liddle
terry keys

Do we still like this quaint little rectangular field

[Egan]

Can you at LEAST admit Egan, that it is stupid to be building/renovating a stadium with (assuming 30k) a smaller capacity than the existing crowds we seen turn up to three of eight matches ever hosted by this new team?
Surely you can see/concede that point

It happens all around the world, from Cardiff's Millenium Stadium, to games hosted at the MCG, Telstra Stadium.

Why did Telstra Stadium take the capacity for Bledisloe Cup games from 120,000 to 80,000?

Because the reality was that these where temporary stands and for one or two games a year a 120,000 seat stadium was not viable.

And there is my answer, Western Force are no harder done by then any other sporting code in getting a mid 30,000 seat stadium.

So, working off the Subiaco Seating map on our front page, unless the following TWF Members are prepared to upgrade to Silver ASAP there is a very strong likelyhood that you will be watching on TV.
So, in advance, thanks for joining us the following twelve:

At the moment their is 17,000 members.

Around 12,000 would be Diamond/Gold

5000 would be Silver/Nickel/Iron

Meaning that leaves 12,000 of a 35,000 seat stadium to the Gold and Corporate members (one grand stand at MES)

And the other 5000 would have around 12,000 seats behind the goal.

Thus it would be very likely the current members would get seats.

And Burgs, I am an Iron member, with top class seats in 345

[The EnForcer]

So how come the Town of Vincent was asked by the taskforce to submit a proposal for the complete redevelopment of MES? Where is this information of yours coming from?

If you make statements such as "The stadium will not be developed from new if it was on the MES site." then you should qualify it by saying it's your opinion or state where this information is coming from.

Egan, are you going to respond to me?

[AndyS]

The stadium will not be developed from new if it was on the MES site. For 31,000 the stadium would be two tiers on the southern, eastern and northern side of the ground.

With the remaining Fred D Book Stand and some minor development next to it.

MES has space, but I see it almost as a knock-down and restart with any development needing to address the existing grandstand as its first priority. I sat in the stand for the first Samoa game and was struck by how steeply tiered it was, but it wasn't until I sat on the other side of the ground for the second game that it became apparent how inefficient a use of space the grandstand was (it is roughly half the length of the playing surface - anyone know the seating capacity?). I would have thought that the western stand would be the primary location for a two tier stand as the sun would be behind. This would presumably have corporate, media and diamond seating on the upper level, with gold on the lower level. There would still need to be a lot of seating on the eastern side though, and I would have thought some protection from the setting sun would be required if this were to be considered prime seating (of course, we could always stick the corporates and media looking into the sun..).

Mind you, this being Perth the stand is probably heritage listed as a superb example of something. That would be painful but, if so, would it necessarily preclude a second tier? Alternatively could it be relocated to the end of the ground or, failing that, the ground rotated E-W like Subi (although this would aggravate the sun issue).

My main concern is that, with the seeming focus on the 60,000 seat stadium, we'll get the cheapest possible bodge if we get a stadium at all. Burswood is an interesting option, but it would be curious how much thought has gone into dealing with the departing crowd. Subi (and to a lesser extent MES) work because a lot of folk walk after the game. That will not be so possible at Burswood, unless they plan to build an extraordinary number of event specific facilities nearby. If not, the entire crowd will descend on the train station at once or a higher percentage than currently will drive and expect parking facilities.

[joblot]

Talking about looking into the sun, I have a mate who is a Gold member, and he tells me he cannot see a bloody thing until half time as they are looking straight into the sun. I can think of plenty of other reasons to can this ridiculous daylight saving, but this one ranks pretty high. Any form of redevelopment of MES would suffer the same. Join the petition to scap it and return to sanity.

[travelling_gerry]

Yeah....Daylight Saving.....I am over it.....

[shasta]

but it wasn't until I sat on the other side of the ground for the second game that it became apparent how inefficient a use of space the grandstand was (it is roughly half the length of the playing surface - anyone know the seating capacity?).

The old stand has been there long before MES has been rectangularised. it was for East Perth WAFL. I think the East Perth Footy Club may even still be situated there, behind the stand?

I've been there to see the Glory and The Force. I'm no engineer but I'd guess the whole western side would need to be done from scratch. As far as the rest, from an engineering viewpoint, dunno whether it could be modified with a second tier & roof either. But I'd hazard a guess not.

[Egan]

Egan, are you going to respond to me?

Sorry mate was at Uni. Was intending to respond to you.

As Shasta has mentioned the stand Fred D Book is heritage listed and thus the sort of development to completely demolish it, probably some of the heritage listed Morton Bay Fig Trees would delay the development no end.

The plan is new, is not something I think the Government will seriously consider spending that much money on, considering it doubles the price, starting from scratch...without much possibility of renovation.

Building up MES develops a stadium that can be upped in capacity into the future readily by just demolishing the Fred D Book Stand when funding becomes available.

Not that I dismiss that it could be a possibility, but I think any rectangular stadium situated on the MES site will be building on from what it is now - But the sort of stadium it will be, will impress all of us.

At the end of the day, as a Force fan I am totally behind everything you guys have in your views in getting a stadium larger then that. But unfortunately through the knowledge I have and having to look at things on a realistic level and a non-biased level and recognise there is other services that are looking to have increased revenue spent on it, means that I do not support my editorial coverage going down the current line of thinking by some on this forum. (Good to see there is a strong debate though, which is what articles are supposed to bring)

I want redevelopment to start and I believe it will, between 30-35,000 is the current line of thinking and has got pressure from many major sporting organisations.

I think that is big enough for the force, but continue to debate about the issue. It is good to see the stadium issue coming to the forefront of attention and you can be sure that I will report on any additional information about the redevelopment, at present I am currently working on trying to find out what the Sporting Bodies will gurantee the government so it will get a 35,000 seat stadium.

If anybody continues to have questions, feel free to email me at egan@austadiums.com and I can even refer you to the comprehensive coverage I have given to the Rectangular Sports Debacle (which is more then a year delayed) with contacts from across all the rectangular codes since the start of my coverage, From announcing the Redevelopment back in 2004 to the recent article which said the three rectangular sporting codes and entertainment industry had combined to strive for a 35,000 seat facility to Perth.
Chris Egan
www.austadiums.com

I've been there to see the Glory and The Force. I'm no engineer but I'd guess the whole western side would need to be done from scratch. As far as the rest, from an engineering viewpoint, dunno whether it could be modified with a second tier & roof either. But I'd hazard a guess not.

The Western Stand remains untouched and the stand is heritage listed, thus why they have just avoided the contention of demolishing it.

But the Town of Vincent is open to demolishing it in the future and it can happen, but I think the extra paperwork and time to do this, will mean a total re-start would be highly unlikely.

That is if the stadium is built at MES, it could very well be at Burswood.

[MysticBalls]

Keep on cooking on the Stadium issue Egan.Good job. Their reticence to develop, is why I had to leave good ol WA.

[Egan]

Mind you, this being Perth the stand is probably heritage listed as a superb example of something. That would be painful but, if so, would it necessarily preclude a second tier? Alternatively could it be relocated to the end of the ground or, failing that, the ground rotated E-W like Subi (although this would aggravate the sun issue).

My main concern is that, with the seeming focus on the 60,000 seat stadium, we'll get the cheapest possible bodge if we get a stadium at all. Burswood is an interesting option, but it would be curious how much thought has gone into dealing with the departing crowd. Subi (and to a lesser extent MES) work because a lot of folk walk after the game. That will not be so possible at Burswood, unless they plan to build an extraordinary number of event specific facilities nearby. If not, the entire crowd will descend on the train station at once or a higher percentage than currently will drive and expect parking facilities.

Your fears are true!

The stand is heritage listed as above, despite examples of this stand being at Leederville Oval and Eftel Oval - The stand is barely unique. What is keeping it up, a strong historical minded East Perth support that is strongly opposed to the name of the stand and the stand going.

The costs of moving it would be prohibitive and would not happen.

Burswood has the Graham Farmer Freeway and has similar good railway access as MES and Subiaco Oval have.

Burswood also has the ability to have a precinct entirely away from the setbacks that residential properties in Subiaco now have, and wish they didn't.