Eddie (the tosser) at it again

[Vanilla Ice]

And i still will agree to disagree regarding eddie, i cannot respect him since he lost the top job due to his general display of bad sportsmanship at every turn...But we are both entitled to our opinions...I respect that...

Eddie didn't lose the job due to 'poor sportsmanship'. It was results, plain and simple. Never mind our lack of talent & injuries at the time.

And I can't think of a coach that hasn't bitched about refereeing at least once a season. Methinks you have your guard up cause you are one of the hunted !

[WF2006]

.......and the battle rages!

[frontrow]

You are an antagonist aren't you ice....Like i said, we are both entitled to our own opinions, even if i don't necessary agree with you i respect the fact that you have your own views...I don't recall saying he lost the top job due to bad sportsmanship, i agree it was a results based decision, for sure...But the fact that he wouldn't listen to any of the many voices of opinion around him asking for changes he still ignored the signs, his ignorance was his undoing and his ignorance now will bring him down again...

[jazza93]

Not anymore. Rucking is dead. Watch the Super 14 and note how the ruck is interpreted by the refs. Listen for the 'no feet !!'.

The game is getting soft. And its killing attack - nobody can get quick ball.

you are alowed to ruck ok thats why its a ruck. i think your getting mixed up with STOMPING that is were you atack a player with your feet. no feet means stop stomping!!!!

[Vanilla Ice]

...I don't recall saying he lost the top job due to bad sportsmanship, i agree it was a results based decision, for sure...But the fact that he wouldn't listen to any of the many voices of opinion around him asking for changes he still ignored the signs, his ignorance was his undoing and his ignorance now will bring him down again...

You're clearly contradicting yourself - you wrote 'he lost the top job due to his general display of bad sportsmanship at every turn'.

The main issue was his record...I think they went through a period of 7 losses from 8 games. The ARU just used the extra stuff - assistant coaches having quit - as extra ammunition. When they want you gone, they certainly let you know about it !

I think he's a lot better for the experience and is improving as a coach. Knuckles is learning from his season last year and I think has is taking a leaf out of Jones' book and being a lot tougher and more demanding of the Wallabies.

you are alowed to ruck ok thats why its a ruck. i think your getting mixed up with STOMPING that is were you atack a player with your feet. no feet means stop stomping!!!!

I'm not getting mixed up at all. I'm saying effectively the way the ruck is interpreted at the moment, you cannot use your feet. The contest has been destroyed.

Its been a gradual shift over a few years now as the game gets softer and softer but now rucking is pretty much gone from our game. As a result, all the power is in the ref's hands and what we're seeing is diabolically dull rugby.

[jazza93]

They did not say dont use your feet in a ruck lol that is the whole point maybe you heard wrong. And they fired eddie as walibies coach because of his style he just told people to do there job and nothing else but john connoly is a more free flowing coach. The rucks are more physical than ever now.

[Thequeerone]

Hopefully they do this tribunal today and put the Red Fans, VI and Frontrow out of their misery

For the rest of us amusement factor

[Nick]

Paddy's response - I have more respect for this whistle blower than Eddie Jones.

Paddy Blows Whistle On Ref Bagging
22/02/2007 07:40 AM
NZPA
International Rugby Board referees' boss Paddy O'Brien says there is no room for coaches publicly criticising referees, and they will be sanctioned for doing so at the World Cup.

New Zealand's O'Brien, in Sydney to discuss the trialling of new laws in the Australian domestic competition, refused to directly discuss Queensland Reds coach Eddie Jones' stinging criticism of referee Matt Goddard at the weekend.

But he urged coaches to go through the proper channels.

"Coaches mouthing off and blaming referees doesn't do the game, referees or coaches any good," O'Brien said.

O'Brien confirmed written complaints backed by video evidence would be given serious consideration by the IRB at this year's World Cup, but any public post-match criticism would be punished by fines or suspension.

"The really good coaches, and the teams that seem to be at the top of the world at the moment, are the ones that are very proactive in submitting reports to me, accompanied by clips where they think they've been hard done by.

"Those reports carry a lot of weight with our IRB referee selectors."

O'Brien said referees were accountable for their mistakes and the IRB referee selectors would come down harshly on errors to ensure a high quality.

"We saw a bad call in November when England weren't awarded a try against the All Blacks. We've been quite proactive in the media and saying the referee made a huge mistake, and we deal with that in our selection meetings."

Jones faces a judicial hearing before Super 14 governing body Sanzar later this week for his criticism of Goddard after the Reds' narrow loss to the ACT Brumbies at the weekend.

He faces possible suspension for several matches and/or a fine, but the outspoken former Wallabies coach wasn't backing down.

"I think I have a duty as coach to support my team to ensure we believe we get a fair go and the comments I have made have been in line with that," Jones said.

"I think it is important to have a code of conduct. I don't think you can continuously criticise any part of the game.

"You have to have some objectivity but at the same time if there is something wrong in the game you have to be able to voice it.

"As long as you don't do it all the time, there needs to be a channel for it."

Jones said referees needed to be accountable and called for them to attend post-match press conferences to explain their decisions, an innovation blocked by Sanzar last year.

Find this item at:
http://xtramsn.co.nz/rugby/0,,12428-6978846,00.html
©2007 Xtra Limited

[Happy]

Paddy has to say that, in fact you'll hear the exact same thing from the head of any umpiring institution.

But it begs the question why do coaches still do it if they know as well as anyone, they risk being fined or suspended.

In my opinion they do it because the private complaint route they are forced to go down doesn't work! Plain and simple. It happens in union, league and afl and cricket around the rest of the world!

Everyone from spectators to commentators can criticise the men in charge of the game as much as they like but as soon as the same comment comes from a member of the coach staff all the walls go up and the ticket book comes out!

Publically criticising a game does bring it into disrepute, the men and women out there reffing the game have to cop an enormous amount of abuse for very little praise. So why doesn't Bill Lawry get fined when he bad mouths Billy Bowden? Both him and Eddie made the same directed comments publically about a match official but only one stands to loose his job for a period of time!

Jones said referees needed to be accountable and called for them to attend post-match press conferences to explain their decisions, an innovation blocked by Sanzar last year.

I think that is the greatest improment that could be said, about any sport!

[Nick]

So why doesn't Bill Lawry get fined when he bad mouths Billy Bowden? Both him and Eddie made the same directed comments publically about a match official but only one stands to loose his job for a period of time!

Hmm dont follow the cricket all that much to be honest but I had the feeling that for the most part the commentators in Rugby are fairly circumspect about what they say...

I know the IRB has come out occasionally and admitted the odd wrong call but there have been teams that have been done more harshly by the Ref's day John Mitchell and the Force against the Crusader. It was widely acknowledged that a mistake or two was made.

In fact I think since Paddy has taken over the top spot he has made the reffing situation more accountable - but like players ref's need to build up top match game to get better.

The Coach Publicly slanging them isn't going to help. Eddie has been around long enough, he said he was happy to pay any fine twice over well fine take it like a man then and stop your whinging

[Happy]

my point on the cricket was this;

People don't like coaches publically criticising the ref's because it brings the game into disrepute. It is a bad example for people, especially the younger views. The game is trying to get people to accept the decision of the ref and get on with the game.

Now I agree with this view and I agree with the reasons behind it!!!

However my arguement is that other high profile commentators either as live commentary, print or video press should also be accountable. More people listen to the commentary than listen to the live ref "sportsears" (for want of a better description) so why aren't they also held accountable?

Tens of thousands of young viewers listen to the commentators openly disagree and criticise a desicion during a broadcast - yet no one thinks any more about it.

A coach at the end of the game publically says the exact same thing, which generally only the media and die hard fans ever watch, and well you know what happens.

It just doesn't seem consistent to me.

[Darren]

media and fans are external players in the sport - players and coachs should respect the referee and teach the young ones to do the same by example. criticising and disagreeing are OK I think - its all about respect...

[Nick]

Well I think Eddie came out and said a lot mor ethan most media say but once you start censoring what they say about one thing... Constructive analysis about the game including all aspect the ref being one part of them is the medias job - we can agree or disagree but as coach said it's about respect.

Heres a blunter version of what Paddy said:
Paddy O'Brien, said that there were already systems in place whereby coaches could make comments - good or bad - about referees.

"Coaches are encouraged to give feedback on referees," O'Brien said. "If a referee makes a mistake, and we have seen some high-profile ones recently, we have been quite open in admitting that a referee made a mistake."

O'Brien said that at this year's World Cup, "If there is a cock-up by a referee, we will put our hands up and admit a mistake".

What is so special about Eddie? He knows the rules as do all the others the media are a whole different kettle of fish.

[Happy]

I guess it is about attention.. if someone feels the correct approach isn't working they find another one.

[Ecky]

you are alowed to ruck ok thats why its a ruck. i think your getting mixed up with STOMPING that is were you atack a player with your feet. no feet means stop stomping!!!!

If I can refer you to post #23 in this thread:

"Who is it that is saying no rucking in rucks????????

Rucking involves the ball. You may ruck. You have always been able to ruck. You can still ruck now.

Just ruck the ball. If the player is right next to the ball, you can still ruck the ball, even bring the payer out with the ball. As long as it is the ball you are rucking.

Ruck away people, just ruck properly.

A player's head has been, is now and always will be out of bounds to get your boot anywhere near. It doesn't look like a ball and cannot possibly be mistaken for one. Don't do it. Studs/sprigs on bodies is not allowed in a downward motion. Think about it. Sole of boot pointing towards the goal line; in a vertical fashion, go for it. Sole of boot pointing down; be prepared for a rest on the sidelines.

Right. I feel better now. It's damn high up here on my high horse on top of a soap box."