Scrum Law changes

[Sagerian]

How is touching the opposing prop momentarily going to change that?


As always, I agree with X on his point, the constant silly buggery of trying to turn the scrum always occurs on the initial hit. Eliminate that rule and you'll see things get better.

[RuckNMaul]

the tighthead should be more worried about getting that sweet spot and spliting the loosie and hooker bind causing them to go up and back then trying to wheel for a small advantage to the half.
the change of law wont stop the impact only make it more measured.

[frontrow]

I thought my ramblings earlier may have indicated the various other ways the shifty buggers up front can get around the new rulings, in an effort to collapse scrums, have another look if not informed by now...Rick, taking away an initial lunge is one step taken away from the frontrow, check out all the other means, and there are probably more i can`t remember right now.
And Krusher, you`re right, but a good prop already knows this and uses it to his advantage, which means we may still see Baxter get repeatedly beaten by the smarter props, as usual...The impact will have nothing to do with it...

[rick boyd]

How is touching the opposing prop momentarily going to change that?


As always, I agree with X on his point, the constant silly buggery of trying to turn the scrum always occurs on the initial hit. Eliminate that rule and you'll see things get better.

I imagine because it means the front rows will be an arm's length apart and their heads virtually touching instead of charging at each other from a distance.

[Sagerian]

I imagine because it means the front rows will be an arm's length apart and their heads virtually touching instead of charging at each other from a distance.

...I'm just saying the touch seems to make it easier to line the respective front rows up correctly across the scrum and also distance wise.

I get that (obviously), but it won't stop cheekiness in trying to wheel the scrum, which is where a lot of collapses are coming from.

[Burgs]

Yeah that's my understanding of the primary objective of the new laws too Rick.
Bit like the "arms length" metre in the lineout.
As I said somewhere else, you look at the old footage and packs are just about running at each other! Great to look at but in this modern era of litigation it isn't appropriate anymore. Whoever came up with the term "Duty of Care" should be shot

[Ecky]

Whoever came up with the term "Duty of Care" should be shot

Yeah! Hear hear!

If only the players thought like that and didn't winge to the ref when/if they get pinged for their attempted destabilisation of the scrum.

"I am penalising Red 3 for failing his Duty of Care".....

[frontrow]

Whinging at the refs is a props privilage, as they would never be responsible for deliberatly dropping a scrum, you should know that ecky

[brokendown gunfighter]

Whinging at the refs is a props privilage, as they would never be responsible for deliberatly dropping a scrum, you should know that ecky

& i never,ever put the ball into the scrum crooked,no half back ever would

[Ecky]

& i never,ever put the ball into the scrum crooked,no half back ever would

I wanna ref you & frontrow!

That'll make my job so much easier if everyone would comply like that!

But, Alas, then I woke from my dream and realised nothing had changed...

BTW, you are a scrum half, not a half back. I think we should change the contraction from "half" (like "get it in half, stop wasting time") to "scrummy" -

"get out of the gap scrummy!"

Has a nice ring to it, no?

[.X.]

Ecky, with the greatest of respect to you and all whistleblowers. The penalties awarded at the scrum are ridiculous and a coin toss at best. Its unfortunate but I am betting that you have never packed in to a scrum yourself.

Now please don't get me wrong, I am not here to criticise you. Its an unfortunate situation that you have to officiate, and that you and your colleagues are in an impossible situation to adjudicate on.

[freo_pete]

I agree that the new rules will make weak packs look stronger - however it will also reduce contact injuries & possible neck injuries.
this will also reduce a stronger packs ability to destabilise the scrum

Hopefully it should help our scrum

[Rodent]

I cant see it making weak scrums look stronger. It is only lessening the initial impact, the good scrums at the moment are all about technique and power.
Good scrum coaches will have good scrummagers trained up with the tactics to take advantage of weak scrums.
If anyone thinks that Al Baxter is all of a sudden going to be saved from getting monstered by Hayman and the boys then I think they are dreaming.

Sure there are teams that take advantage of rule changes, for example if you look at the Crusaders pack 2 years ago, when they got called to crouch and hold they would stay standing and wait and wait then the ref would just call engage and they would get a huge advantage in the initial hit because they were coming from an almost standing position. They did it for the entire year and I wouldn't surprised if some of the impetus for the crouch, "hold" , engage came from that.

My point being these new rules wont provide an advantage for weak scrums for long, because good coaches will work out ways for their strong scrums to dominate.

[Ecky]

Ecky, with the greatest of respect to you and all whistleblowers. The penalties awarded at the scrum are ridiculous and a coin toss at best. Its unfortunate but I am betting that you have never packed in to a scrum yourself.

Treat those who start with "with the greatest respect" very warily, I was told..

It is true that not many referees, in Perth or on the world stage, have played in the scrum, especially not the front row. Maybe it is to do with their physique/mobility? Or maybe they have such dislike of the bloke with the whistle that they don't wish to be one?

That is not to say we (or some of us) don't have some idea of what is going on the there. Granted, not all of us and not necessarily all the time...

Maybe that's why the Sacred Front Row Club should invite the ref, every once in a while, to discuss/explain what the hell it was that went on in the scrums that day? Maybe over a beer after the match? (rather than during the match, as the other front row seem always to have a different opinion and we might not be able to tell who's telling lies...)

[frontrow]

I used to have a beer with the ref in front row corner at Wanneroo after a game and tell him were he went wrong, and that they wouldn`t know a decent scrum from a maul... Usually to a few cheers from the boys, and a look of resignation on the refs face...But i also have refereed and found the scrum to be the hardest area to manage even though i am a member of the ewxclusive frontrowers club, it all comes down to calling it how you "see" it...If you didn`t see it then you can`t call it...
ps...good post rodent, nice analysis...