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Thread: Had the guts to say what others are afraid to: Cheika nailed it in his steps required

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    Immortal Contributor The InnFORCEr's Avatar
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    Had the guts to say what others are afraid to: Cheika nailed it in his steps required

    At last, someone is talking sense.

    The comments by Michael Cheika this week hit the mark in more ways than one.

    Finally, someone has had the sense and the guts to say what too many people are afraid of saying.

    There is no discernible strategy for rugby in this country; and making decisions about grassroots rugby, Super Rugby or the Wallabies in a strategy vacuum is nonsensical.

    There are no silver bullets. Reaching a Rugby World Cup Final in 2015 didn’t save Australian rugby.

    A massive loan from Pacific Equity Partners hasn’t done it, and hiring Joe Schmidt alone won’t either.

    So what is the path forward, what strategy should be implemented by the powers that be to revive rugby?

    To “go it alone” and sever ties with Super Rugby if necessary.

    Win a Ziggy BBQ for Grand Final day, thanks to Barbeques Galore! Enter Here.

    1. Very clearly we have a problem identifying school-age talent let alone retaining it.

    There should be an immediate plan to provide contracts to Australia’s top 15 schoolboy rugby players as well as to five developmental athletes from non-traditional or regional rugby-playing schools.

    Such an initiative, rolled out across three-year cycles to 90 athletes at any given time, would cost less than $7million per year before sponsorship opportunities are factored in.

    The developmental contracts at least, would in part be sponsored by big business as part of corporate social responsibility initiatives.

    All contracts should be in the region of $100,000 (similar to League and AFL equivalents) per year but also provide for tertiary grants.

    Rugby has a traditional affiliation with many universities around the country, whether that be Bond University, UWA or indeed Sydney University.

    So why not use these affiliations to supplement contracts and create, for example, the ‘UWA Fortescue Rugby Scholarship’ or the ‘Bond University Build Corp Rugby Grant’?


    2. The time has also come to bite the bullet and create a long-term, viable replacement for the National Rugby Championship.

    It may replace Super Rugby eventually or it may not. But there should at least be a Plan B in case going it alone becomes a necessity, not a choice.

    To date the major stumbling blocks have been funding and the perception that such a competition would undermine club rugby competitions, particularly the Shute Shield.

    The solution is obvious. A new national competition should incorporate the major club competitions as conferences.

    Each club competition, whether the Shute Shield or otherwise, could conclude before the top two from each conference would play off in an eight-team, seeded finals series played at traditional grounds such as Ballymore, Leichhardt Oval or similar.

    As Cheika said, “We have a tradition in Australia of getting behind a national competition” and that sport in this country is based on “rivalry and connection”.

    Battles like Brothers v Randwick or Canberra Royals v Nedlands are something for clubs to aspire to rather than be just an afterthought.

    Suddenly, you have a national club competition at very little extra cost that retains tradition.

    The finals series could be played in front of full houses at smaller grounds and provide for state-against-state rivalries -bragging rights on a national scale.

    3. Australian Rugby must retain participation in Super Rugby for now but make it clear to all involved that the competition is on notice.

    Most importantly, the game must be prepared for Super Rugby’s implosion.

    It was shocking to see Cheika confirm that leaving Super Rugby was considered as far back as 2018 at “an executive level”.

    Why is no contingency plan in place in 2024?

    A national club competition is the first step to future-proofing but thought must be given to an origin series or similar to replace Super Rugby if and when necessary.

    Just because rugby league thought of it first, doesn’t make it a bad idea.

    4. Of course, it’s pointless having a national competition if nobody can watch.

    When Channel Nine couldn’t even be counted on to televise the Wallabies v Argentina Test last week, Cheika’s comments came sharply into focus.

    He said: “There’s a lot of free-to-air coverage of [League] so more people can see who [players] are. That partnership – how Nine have almost made league in their partnership with them and built the game together – that’s the type of strategic thinking that you need”.

    Rugby union in this country must be shown on a reliable platform or platforms that are free.

    If that means taking big hits on television money domestically and going cap in hand to philanthropists, sponsors and World Rugby then so be it.

    As Cheika said, it will be difficult initially, it won’t be easy. But nothing worth doing is.

    Which brings me to the last action point. Perhaps the most controversial of the lot.

    5. So much has been written about the question of whether to select Wallabies from overseas or not.

    As is too often the case, the debate has degenerated in recent times into absolutes; yes or no.

    Importantly, Cheika pointed out that this is not a one-dimensional problem.

    League is poaching school boys, Major League Rugby scouting club competitions and Europe seeking out Super Rugby players.

    To my mind, the question is not how to stop players from heading overseas but how to incentivise them to stay while seeking out both experience overseas as well as financial reward.

    Why not have dual contracts and reciprocal relationships with clubs overseas? Some players, perhaps many, could be very satisfied with one season out of every four in Europe, Japan or elsewhere while retaining the privilege of being Wallaby eligible.

    Promising colts could spend some time scrummaging in Natal before starting their ‘UWA Fortescue Rugby Scholarship’.

    The best club players who don’t make the grade for higher honours might do so next year after a winter in Glasgow.

    Starting somewhere is better than going around in circles, seeing the same debates always end lacking in consensus.

    So many of these steps are easy to take. They just require some courage.

    Mostly they require a coherent strategy to be set out and implemented by a competent leadership with vision.

    Not too much to ask.

    https://www.msn.com/en-au/sport/othe...7836f5b6&ei=25

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    Any 'replacement' for the NRC that involves the clubs would be a complete waste of time and money. It will do precisely zero for player development and standards, it is just more amateur club rugby.

    If that is what Sydney wants though, good luck to them. Let them pick their teams that way...they can then go up against the same Brisbane, Q'ld Country, Vikings, Force, teams from 2019. Also, if they are going to put out amateur teams, there is really no justification whatsoever for excluding a state team from South Australia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyS View Post
    Any 'replacement' for the NRC that involves the clubs would be a complete waste of time and money. It will do precisely zero for player development and standards, it is just more amateur club rugby
    Agreed.

    The tier below Super Rugby needs to be properly national, or at least mirror the SR franchises.

    It can't be local amateur/semi pro conferences that only become "national" as a finals series.
    The NRC had its faults, and was ignored/disregarded by NSW, but at least it was national and gave genuine opportunities to players in the pipeline or on the SR pathway.

    Club rugby won't do that properly, and it spreads the net far too wide. We need to focus on a narrower funnel to develop the next tier down of the pipeline and in the future club rugby may be strong enough to fill that gap, but it isn't close to being there yet.

    RA needs to learn to walk before it can run.
    Right now it's barely crawling!

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    Immortal Contributor GIGS20's Avatar
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    I have a massive problem with the maths in this article.

    Firstly, offering the top 15 schoolboys players $100,000 contracts would cost $1.5 Million a year
    Running this program over 3 years (with maximum takeup and 100% retention) would mean that in any one year we would have 3x15 players in the program (in the fourth year, the 15 new players would be offset by the 15 third year players leaving) that's 45 players not 90.

    45 x $100,000 isn't 7 Million it's $4.5 Million even if we take the fictional number quoted (90) that's $9 Million.

    Where the fuck does less than 7 Million come from, if you don't include sponsorships etc?

    After that the writer suggests that a National Club Competition woukld be cheaper than the NRC, but I can't figure out how. If you were going to run a National Club Competition (leaving aside the very valid argument that it does absolutely nothing to increase the standard of the rugby being played, sticking purely to the finances for a bit) does anybody seriously think we would have fewer than 3 Shute Shield teams, 2 Hospital Cup teams and a team from Melbourne and Perth? If we don't have fewer teams than that, how do we save costs on travel expenses, ground hire etc? I assume the suggestion is that Player Salaries would be covered by the clubs as the players would already be contracted, however is that the biggest cost to running a genuine NRC? Is that the reason the NRC is too expensive to run? If so, maybe somebody should tell the Shute Shield clubs who were responsible for the salary ramping that went on and cause the NRC to be UNNECESSARILY expensive. they offered higher and higher salaries to players if they opted to play SS and not NRC, artificially inflating the salary market.

    So, yeah. I think, unfortunately, most people in Sydney get fed this sort of bullshit from the media and don't really have a reason to think critically about it, because it doesn't affect them, however they SHOULD do the critical thinking because, by continually destroying the quality of Aussie Rugby simply to maintain the fallacious premise that Sydney Club Rugby is all you need to become a Wallaby Superstar like Phil Kearns is one of the reasons we're in this mess.

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    C'mon the

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    Immortal Contributor shasta's Avatar
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    I don't know how much "guts" it takes to propose uncosted solutions with only vague hints at a proposed structure. There have been many such "light bulb moments" offered up by a swathe of Roar Editors, "Experts" & "Rookies" as well as more in the press, over at GAGR and around here. Having to actually get it done without sending the game even more broke is a whole different matter. While I've been in favour, in principle at least, to moving to a domestic competition model; I'll for sure say that I have no real clue how that could be done in a financially sustainable manner. Not optimistic that those who actually have to get it done are on the right track, either.

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    Immortal Contributor GIGS20's Avatar
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    is there an echo in here?

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    C'mon the

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    Immortal Contributor shasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIGS20 View Post
    is there an echo in here?
    Apparently. That was supposed to be deleted.

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    Veteran chibi's Avatar
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    Is Wayne Evans on this board, viewing our posts?

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    Last edited by chibi; 06-09-24 at 18:21.


    Japan and the Pacific Islands for Aussie Super 9's!

    Let's have one of these in WA! Click this link: Saitama Super Arena - New Perth Stadium?

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    One major impediment to a ARC/NPC/NRC/Whatever is the buy in from NSW/Shute and to a lesser extent Qld/Hospital.

    I think that for WA and Vic it is simple, it is a single Rep XV.
    ACT a little more blurred, but likely also just a straight Rep XV.

    Was thinking maybe rather than trying to "manufacture" new regional entities (which I had no problem with, but cited as a major failing) how about Shute and Hospital have their own promotion/relegation within the "NRC"?

    So each comp has ?three slots for a team from that system to fill however they choose, but suggest on Minor Premiership Ladder.

    So this year that would be for 2025-
    Shute- Easts, Warringah, Randwick
    Hospital- Brothers, UQ, Wests
    Brumby Runners (or Tuggeranong if a Club)
    Melbourne Rebels (or Harlequins if a Club)
    Force/Spirit (or Palmyra if a Club)

    Then for 2026, the 2025 lowest placed for each of the Shute and Hospital slots be up for relegation, depending on where they finished in their respective City comps in 2025. Say Wests were 3rd in 2025 NRC, but won the Hospital Cup Minor Premiership, they would stay in 2026 NRC. But if they were 3rd in 2025 NRC and Souths won the Hospital Cup Minor Premiership, then Wests relegated and Souths promoted.
    Alternatively, just first past the post year on year. That may be a better format for avoiding concentration of talent over time.
    Regardless, would need to install mechanisms around player eligibilities to avoid fluctuating Squads, both those in the NRC and those missing out.

    I'm sure there are holes you could drive a truck through, but just trying to get head around a composite model that Shute and Hospital can support.

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    Immortal Contributor shasta's Avatar
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    Given the rumblings of an NRC style competition replacing Super Rugby; does the following article in the Telegraph UK repeated in a few Aussie sites put the writing possibly on the wall. Our "allies" across the ditch reportedly seem to be actively contemplating jumping ship every other year from the Rugby Championship. Messers Waugh & Herbert seem to be floundering for answers. All parties agreed to extend for another 6 years not so long ago. If this change were to come about; maybe even if it doesen't, I'd probably think RA should accept the situation as it is and strategically withdraw from both international competitions and find a way to fight back to a position of strength by some other path which will hopefully not drive the game to irreversible insolvency. Thoughts??

    Rugby Championship shake-up over All Blacks-Springboks tours – Australia are second fiddle

    The Rugby Championship is set to take place every two years as plans continue between New Zealand and South Africa to hold multi-Test tours, with Australia now plotting their next move.

    The eight-week tours between the All Blacks and Springboks, branded the ‘Greatest Rugby Rivalry’, are set to start in 2026 and will feature three Tests plus midweek matches, dominating the window previously reserved for the Rugby Championship.



    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-un...urs-australia/

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    Veteran chibi's Avatar
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    Never forget, when Perth was touted to enter Super Rugby in the early 2000s, "our 'allies' across the ditch" vetoed our entry. And then when they didn't get themselves ready to sub-host the RWC 2003 and Australia had to hurriedly host it ourselves, they were quite happy to hurl "tit-for-tat" and "revenge" accusations across said ditch at us, when it was the IRB that gave them that kick in the pants.

    Australian Rugby should have taken notice back then and operated with NZ Rugby from a position of scepticism, we should have strengthened the bond with South Africa, instead of allowing them to become more isolated from the supposed "Trans-Tasman bloc" which never really existed, but we fooled ourselves into believing it did. After all, how many years were we stupidly believing in a "streamlined" NZ-Aus Super Rugby comp?? Now we've got it and it sucks- and it benefits only New Zealand. A New Zealand who now conveniently get the opportunity to once again blame Australia as it's "the poor quality of their Super Rugby teams" that makes the All Blacks play bad.
    WAAAAAH

    Ditching or reducing the Rugby Championship is a dog act to a country like Australia that is struggling financially in rugby terms. Especially when done seemingly behind our backs.

    Time for Australian rugby to find a pathway for young players to earn decent coin. I'd rather they stayed in union at an overseas club, than get lost to rugby league; at least WR regulations gets them back for test matches. Maybe it's time to ally with some of the major sides overseas, while concentrating our efforts on a standalone re-build over here. I have faith that in time, Australia will get itself back into a position of power, simply due to the size of the potential market here. In Super Rugby, Australia was the only nation of the three to get bumper crowds despite not being the No.1 game in the country. That says a lot about the sleeping giant that still slumbers.

    If only our game's disparate power-brokers and "old farts" as Will Carling calls them, can get their shit together and see the bigger picture. It's not a silver bullet solution we need, that's what we could have used back in 2004/5; now it's time for hard yards.

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    Last edited by chibi; 07-09-24 at 13:47.


    Japan and the Pacific Islands for Aussie Super 9's!

    Let's have one of these in WA! Click this link: Saitama Super Arena - New Perth Stadium?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chibi View Post
    ..we should have strengthened the bond with South Africa, instead of allowing them to become more isolated from the supposed "Trans-Tasman bloc"...
    Don't know, I think most of this is being driven by SA and a long time in the making. They were always looking for an exit door from SR, and were going to jump through it the moment it became available. The rise of the URC, pushing to join 6N, and limiting SH involvement to NZ all flow from that.

    They were never going to ignore all that just because Aus was more appeasing. TBH, I think Aus would have been in an even worse position now, even if most of the issue remain with our own administration.

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    Veteran chibi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyS View Post
    Don't know, I think most of this is being driven by SA and a long time in the making. They were always looking for an exit door from SR, and were going to jump through it the moment it became available.
    I agree with that, but respectfully, I think there's a chicken and egg argument here, one which I've seen all over rugby social media. Did they want to leave, or were they pushed?

    I've always felt they had it a bit rough in Super Rugby, I thought it was no coincidence that once they had a fifth team and the travel evened up slightly, that they won the championship 3 times. I'm not surprised NZ vetoed that fifth team at their first attempt, along with the W.A. ("too far, we want Melbourne") bid. I feel that this period, in the early 2000s, is when we should have strengthened that SA bond, if only to deal with the chicanery from the Kevin Roberts led NZ Rugby at the time.

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    Japan and the Pacific Islands for Aussie Super 9's!

    Let's have one of these in WA! Click this link: Saitama Super Arena - New Perth Stadium?

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    Immortal Contributor shasta's Avatar
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    Off topic but can't be arsed going anywhere else.

    If anyone is looking for a perfect example of how ridiculous the deliberate knock down has become just take a look at the Willie Le Roux YC last night. If that is not a genuine intercept opportunity, I'm the Shah of Iran. And he's 6 feet under.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chibi View Post
    Did they want to leave, or were they pushed?
    They wanted to leave. They'd threatened it since at least 2010, had already moved the Cheetahs there in 2017, and were in the middle of negotiating the expansion. Covid just accelerated the process...they weren't waiting to see what happened after, the SA teams all voted to leave in the middle of lockdown. Cheetahs got the short straw as usual, but the reason it happened so quickly was that it was all already happening.

    IMO most of the SA whining is actually just butthurt because they were wanting to make a big production about leaving at the end of the SR contract in 2021, and were denied their grandstand moment.

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    Last edited by AndyS; 08-09-24 at 17:30.

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