Spears’ Super 14 ambitions rest on appeal

[Flat-top]

I began commenting on this thread in the belief that the Spears had been "promised" a position in the S14 at the expense of the lowest placed SA team in the 05/07 season, and that seems to have been a decision reversed by SARU. My point was that it is that decision and behaviour I disagree with. To me it smacks of changing the rules once the outcome doesn't go your way, i.e. there was an original agreement to apply relegation and promotion and now there isn't. If I got that wrong then clearly the rest of my comments are misplaced.

The ongoing banter with Happy which include references to English Soccer etc are all a distraction from the original thread but nonetheless good debate (what this site is all about and a change from talking about homework or spelling )

Frontrow you I am sure are not alone in agreeing with Happy's point of view on relegation, in fact in Australia you are most likely in the majority, I still choose to disagree.

Interestingly for me this is a subject (ring-fencing of leagues) that is back on the agenda in the Guinness Premiership. Every so often the RFU discuss doing away with relegation and trot out the same supporting arguments (much along the lines of Happy - so you can see his point of view is widely accepted). Thankfully they have until now always lost the argument as the general consensus see that Rugby Clubs are and must be run as a business, a franchise if you like, and it is a fact of life that there are risks in business.

The possibility of failure exists in any industry; IMHO it does not stifle investment (as stated by the old f*rts at the RFU in the article I have linked below), it encourages it - as only the businesses who invest in their future will thrive. Remove that risk (relegation) and you just become soft and lethargic. In a ring-fenced league it will be possible (I am not saying that happens, but it could) for a team to have a rubbish structure, no development goals and no ambition, to always play poor rugby and continually finish in last place in the league, safe in the knowledge their place is safe and they can start again next season...not my idea of a successful league.

No matter, Ulster away at Connacht and Bath v's the Ospreys for me this week, oh joy

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugb...sh/5405124.stm

[Happy]

for a team to have a rubbish structure, no development goals and no ambition, to always play poor rugby and continually finish in last place in the league, safe in the knowledge their place is safe and they can start again next season

I remember people saying very similar things about the dockers, but look where they are now. Things will always turn around for any club/team!!

[Moses]

I'm all for the concept of relegation, however this is not what SARU had proposed.. their main objective in this whole Spears debacle was to appease political concerns by giving a boost to the Transky - an area that was handed back to the blacks during the apartheid years and consequently has had next to no development in the last 50 years. (my SA knowledge is quite patchy, please don't take this as gospel)

If they were for relegation/promotion then they should give the top 5 Currie Cup teams a Super 14 berth, which would be the current 5 teams anyway! This would surely offer more incentive to the Griquas, Pumas and Valke to beat the Cats knowing there's a S14 slot available..

actually looking at the Currie Cup log there is a big gap between the top 5 and the bottom 3 of the table...

Cheetahs - 50pts
Bulls - 50 pts
Province - 49 pts
Sharks - 48 pts
Cats - 46 pts
Griquas - 25 pts
Valke - 17 pts
Pumas - 4 pts

http://www.sarugby.com/news/Content/pid=10.html

[Flat-top]

Moses I bow to your superior knowledge of SA Rugby and politics but as I mentioned earlier I had vague recollections of the suggestion that SARU would operate relegation and promotion in favour of the Southern Spears for the 2007 S14 season. The attached link seems to confirm that, and what appears to have happened is that they (SARU) have tried to undermine the agreement by putting hurdles in the way that previously weren't there.


http://www.rugbyworld.com/Super_12/T...ry_52853.shtml

The Southern Spears cried "victory" after a lengthy judgment, handed down by the Cape High Court Judge Dennis Davis on Friday, cleared the way for them to participate in the Currie Cup and Super 14 competitions.

On Friday the Cape High Court cleared the way for the Spears to take part in this year's Currie Cup competition and the 2007 Super 14 competition

However, Davis said during his judgment that it was clear from the papers before him that Spears had a right to participate in the two competitions.

"There was no qualification at all in the minutes of the first respondent (SA Rugby Pty Ltd) when it granted the franchise by way of ratification [on December 2]... There is nothing that suggests that any of these arrangements were conditional on the agreement having been made," said Davis in his judgment.

Meanwhile speculation has already started as to which team will be dumped from the Super 14 to make way for the Spears.

The general perception is that the lowest finishing South African team in 2006, the Cats, would drop out.

[Darren]

and SARU have succeeded - http://thewholeforce.com/showthread.php?t=4541

[Flat-top]

Those Bok's are making it very difficult for me to support them against England this year

But I am bigger than that, of course I will support ABE

[Darren]

Yeah - it's a tough call that one...

You could always hope for a result the same as when South Africa and the British Isles met at Eclectic CG in Kimberley on 5th September 1903 ...

I would think both teams and the entire crowd then topped themselves out of boredom from the nil all draw - that could be a good result all round

[Flat-top]

1903 Coach, I am correct in thinking that both TLH and Larry were at that game? How was it for you boys?

[The InnFORCEr]

Ha Ha Ha, nice one Flat Top!!

[LarryNJ]

1903 Coach, I am correct in thinking that both TLH and Larry were at that game? How was it for you boys?

We were drunk and don't remember!

[The Lone Hydrangea]

I topped myself trom memory! Hey Flat-Top

[frontrow]

That was a beauty flat top, hehehehe

[Moses]

Moses I bow to your superior knowledge of SA Rugby and politics but as I mentioned earlier I had vague recollections of the suggestion that SARU would operate relegation and promotion in favour of the Southern Spears for the 2007 S14 season.

I certainly wouldn't say my knowledge of SA Rugby and politics is superior.. I've spent a short amount of time there and tried to pick up what I could but there's still an awful lot of holes in my knowledge.

SARA haven't gone for your typical promotion/relegation situation - they've got the relegation bit right by dropping the bottom S14 team but the promotion is a joke - the 3 spears feeder teams are 1 from the bottom 3 in the SECOND division of the Currie Cup! There are 5 teams between the Lions(Cats) and the Spears (Bulldogs, Eagles and Elephants) who could feel shafted by this. Between them they've played 30 games, won 11 and lost 19..

You are right however that SARA backtracked on their initial decision, which is pretty harsh on the Spears... but perhaps SARU are belatedly realising the lunacy of their decision to promote such a crap team. Can you imagine what the Crusaders will do to them? Scores of 400 nil sound feasible

SARA have made a typical balls-up of renegging on their decision also - Spears have already got a major sponsor in SAA and I think may have contracted some players as well. Meanwhile the Cats have gone on as if nothing has changed and are renewing their player contracts as well... oh what a mess.