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Thread: Chiefs v Force Sat 21 May 2022

  1. #31
    Legend Contributor brokendown gunfighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shasta View Post
    It's also easy to say that it isn't....and I only paid for a 5 minute argument. The profile and structures in NZ are
    historically well entrenched and have, despite regional rivalry, transitioned to the pro era. Very different here; it is what it is. Not easy. Difficult but possible.
    They have a conveyor belt,we dont even have stairs!

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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by shasta View Post
    It's also easy to say that it isn't....and I only paid for a 5 minute argument. The profile and structures in NZ are
    historically well entrenched and have, despite regional rivalry, transitioned to the pro era. Very different here; it is what it is. Not easy. Difficult but possible.
    You didn't say it was difficult to do, you said it was difficult to work out what would get similar results. That isn't hard; we are agreed that what is hard is making it happen. But "It is what it is" is largely why it has never happened in 25 years of professionalism. And why I wouldn't be holding my breathe on 'Australian rugby' making any meaningful changes.

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  3. #33
    Immortal Contributor shasta's Avatar
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    Whatís the plan for the Force and Rebels? - Paul Cully

    Another week, another 50-point loss for the Force, and further signs of the Rebelsí defensive issues in their 45-22 defeat against the Hurricanes. Neither result was a surprise, and the reality is that neither side is capable of being competitive on a weekly basis.
    Itís an enormous challenge for Rugby Australia, because the existence of the Rebels and Force alone canít be seen as a sign of success.
    They certainly need help, whether thatís in the form of an Australian draft (which I donít like), funding equalisation (more palatable, given RAís top-ups are largely used at the Brumbies, Reds, and Waratahs) or a new post-Super Rugby competition that will give them a chance to bring their players up to speed (probably the best option).

    https://www.watoday.com.au/sport/rug...22-p5anj4.html

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  4. #34
    Immortal Contributor shasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyS View Post
    You didn't say it was difficult to do, you said it was difficult to work out what would get similar results. That isn't hard; we are agreed that what is hard is making it happen. But "It is what it is" is largely why it has never happened in 25 years of professionalism. And why I wouldn't be holding my breathe on 'Australian rugby' making any meaningful changes.
    "It is what it is" refers to the very different situations of the sport in the two nations. Not the idleness of the ARU since 2003 - and that is quite obvious within the context of my post. And now my 5 minutes is up.

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  5. #35
    Immortal GIGS20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shasta View Post
    What’s the plan for the Force and Rebels? - Paul Cully

    Another week, another 50-point loss for the Force, and further signs of the Rebels’ defensive issues in their 45-22 defeat against the Hurricanes. Neither result was a surprise, and the reality is that neither side is capable of being competitive on a weekly basis.
    It’s an enormous challenge for Rugby Australia, because the existence of the Rebels and Force alone can’t be seen as a sign of success.
    They certainly need help, whether that’s in the form of an Australian draft (which I don’t like), funding equalisation (more palatable, given RA’s top-ups are largely used at the Brumbies, Reds, and Waratahs) or a new post-Super Rugby competition that will give them a chance to bring their players up to speed (probably the best option).

    https://www.watoday.com.au/sport/rug...22-p5anj4.html
    Amazing that Cully didn't call for one team to be axed. He's done that before in this season. Possibly he's changed his tune because the Rebels are the easy target after trying to kill the Force backfired so spectacularly but the Force are the ones looking shite at the moment.

    I think the biggest issue is that there are always calls that a strong Tahs is good for Australian Rugby, a Strong Reds is good for Australian Rugby

    This needs to change to All Australian teams need to be strong, because that is also good for Australian Rugby, but we never ever hear anybody say, when the Force is getting 50 put on them week by week that a strong Force is good for Australian Rugby.

    The calls for a funding balance to the non-heartland team are sensible, but in the partisan and parochial world of Aussie rugby governance, it doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of ever getting up.

    The idea of a third tier comp is the most likely to succeed and this will do wonders for the Force and the Rebels, but it has to be generated at the whim of the ARU's masters (Shute Shield and Hospital Cup) or that will similarly never get off the ground.

    I repeat my call for GRR to be reinvigorated with teams from the non-traditional provinces playing each other on a weekly basis, this could be run in conjunction with a Super Rugby reserves competition which would mean poor buggers like Grayson Makara would get more than 2 games of rugby in a year.

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  6. #36
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    I completely agree with the comments around not enough depth and that there should be another tier but we shouldn't also ignore the fact that the Waratahs have turned things around very well in 1 year.

    I know the Tahs get advantages that we don't get but from their side yesterday that beat the Highlanders, the only international quality players I would say are Hooper, Gordon, Angus Bell and maybe Foketi. So not a superstar team.

    So why have they improved so much? Is it just the coach, attitude, etc? Hopefully we can do the same next year with a new coach

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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha Handy View Post
    I completely agree with the comments around not enough depth and that there should be another tier but we shouldn't also ignore the fact that the Waratahs have turned things around very well in 1 year. I know the Tahs get advantages that we don't get but from their side yesterday that beat the Highlanders, the only international quality players I would say are Hooper, Gordon, Angus Bell and maybe Foketi. So not a superstar team. So why have they improved so much? Is it just the coach, attitude, etc? Hopefully we can do the same next year with a new coach
    Attitude can do a lot in sporting teams.Most team sports require a level of cohesion with the players, everybody heading for the same goal and everybody trusting their teammates to do their part of the job.If the best player in the team doesn't rust the guy next to him to make a one on one tackle hell creep out of position to cover the gapLeaving an actual gap caused by a perceived gapIf the number of people who don't trust the system or their teammates reaches a certain percentage, the team can't function.If this is the issue, a coach can usually turn it around pretty quickly if the coach isn't the reason for the lack of trust.If tim had lost the confidence of the playing group, nothing he does from that moment on matters unless he can rebuild that feeling that the system and the selections aren't the problem

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  8. #38
    Champion andrewg's Avatar
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    These discussions and Cully's ongoing comments totally ignore that we've got into this place due to gross mismanagement by Rugby Australia which totally wasted the $350 million war chest created after the 2003 RWC in Oz.
    Development of the game from the grass roots will only happen if we address the problems at the top and especially the cabal/nepotism/vested interests that is all things rugby in NSW.
    All else is just shuffling deck chairs.
    There needs to be a co-ordinated effort to revitalise and grow the great game from the grass roots which has to include efforts to strengthen all of the current SR franchises and address the issues of just not enough game time for our up-and-coming players.

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  9. #39
    Immortal jargan83's Avatar
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    $350 million? Where did you pull that figure from?

    This SMH Article says the War Chest was only $45 million

    https://www.smh.com.au/national/leag...26-gdhurx.html

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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewg View Post
    Development of the game from the grass roots will only happen if we address the problems at the top and especially the cabal/nepotism/vested interests that is all things rugby in NSW.
    Dude, it's not just NSW, the same accusations are leveled pretty believably at Rugby WA, VicRugby were instumental in offing the Force, then mysteriously transferred the majority of the player base and coaching team to them, Qld are by no means innocent.

    It's Australian rugby in general that is gridlocked by parochialism, nepotism, rivalry and bureaucracy.

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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by jargan83 View Post
    $350 million? Where did you pull that figure from?

    This SMH Article says the War Chest was only $45 million

    https://www.smh.com.au/national/leag...26-gdhurx.html
    I think it was an interview on Gold Digger where John O'Neill himself mentioned putting $100 Million from the World Cup into a future fund maybe the $45 Mill is after his planned savings lockup.

    O'Neill was removed because he wasn't going to give the money to the Heartland unions . I think the Bill Pulver parlance is to piss up against a wall.

    Maybe the true figure is somewhere in the middle, maybe it's just a Rugby fishing story (or a prop scoring a try story) the numbers get bigger and more unbelievable every time the story is told.

    Suffice it to say, Rugby Administrators have been throwing money down black holes since they had any!

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