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Thread: Western Force v Waratahs Saturday 16 April 2022

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeansyjive View Post
    Why did Sampson only bring McDonald on with 5 mins to go?
    I think you are missing the theme …. how much say does he REALLY have in the decisions around the squad and team

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  2. #32
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    I thought there were some great passages of play but Season is over really let the young ones get some game time and just start playing for the love of the game!! I think something needs to change.

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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzy Rascal View Post
    I think you are missing the theme …. how much say does he REALLY have in the decisions around the squad and team
    Don’t think anyone is missing the theme! Anything you wanna share from your side? or are you just gonna dick tease with hidden rhetoric?

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    Great game, Fucken battled right through to the 80!

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzy Rascal View Post
    I think you are missing the theme …. how much say does he REALLY have in the decisions around the squad and team
    You can't throw a suggestion like that out there as pure speculation. Is your idea based on anything other than blind loyalty to Tim Sampson?

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    C'mon the

  5. #35
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    Tim Sampson is / was not solely responsible for the rugby program at the WF.
    There are others that need to be accountable

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  6. #36
    Veteran SNOB's Avatar
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    Who does team selection? Unnamed sauces tell me it’s not Sampson but someone much higher up the food chain!
    Is that the problem?

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    May the FORCE be with you!

  7. #37
    Champion andrewg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SNOB View Post
    Who does team selection? Unnamed sauces tell me it’s not Sampson but someone much higher up the food chain!
    Is that the problem?
    So much mis-information and rumour.
    Faceless sniping is a waste of time, destabilising and the action of gutless people.
    What's their experience/track record in running a professional rugby franchise?
    How do any of us know what happens on a day-to-day basis?
    Un-named sources should put up or shut up.

    There's only two other people "higher on the food chain" - Tony Lewis, CEO and Matt Hodgson, GM Rugby.
    (There's also Andrew Forrest. As the owner and enabler of the WF I reckon he's entitled to have his own expectations for the franchise.)
    Both Tony and Matt have made themselves available for Member scrutiny in the Member's tent and on the fan day at Wanneroo. Anyone can see these blokes at WF HQ or around the training track.
    Where were the rumourmongers then?

    Tim Sampson is a top bloke and did a great job at leading the team through the rebuilding after the WF was axed. 88% win record in GRR. The two losses came at the hands of SR teams.
    Much as we enjoyed the WSR/GRR experience it clearly was not at SR level.

    As far as I'm aware, from all that's been said since late 2017, Tim Sampson, as for all Head Coaches in SR, has the final say/power of veto on ALL matters related to recruitment and game plan.
    It will be a major part of his contract. The buck stops with him.
    Can't imagine that any Head Coach would have it any other way.
    However, ~20% win record is unsustainable for a professional franchise.
    That's why I support the change to Simon Cron.

    We clearly haven't got the player talent for regular success at SR level - but we'll get there.
    So many of our players have to improve their skill set for SR.
    Great on the training track (and I've been there often) but missing when the real pressure is on.
    We certainly have the coaching support staff to build upon what we have but most for <6 months in their jobs.

    There is little evidence of leadership from any of the players being shown on the field.
    It's time for the senior players to step up and show some ticker because little has been evident - all season.
    The coaches are not on the field - the players are. Even a little bit of Invictus would be a big improvement.

    Preparation for this game would have been tough with 4 changes to the starting XV (Kaitu'u, Thrush, Kuenzle and Pulu).
    I would have liked to see the likes of Abra, Pugh, Callan, McDonald (especially) get more game time.

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    Last edited by andrewg; 17-04-22 at 07:42.

  8. #38
    Champion andrewg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzy Rascal View Post
    Tim Sampson is / was not solely responsible for the rugby program at the WF.
    There are others that need to be accountable
    You keep saying this (4 times on this thread) but HOW do YOU know that this is true?

    As far as I'm aware the Head Coach IS responsible for the rugby program all others are the enablers and support staff for the Head Coach. That's the nature of the job and why Tim gets paid the $$s he does.

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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewg View Post
    So much mis-information and rumour.
    Faceless sniping is a waste of time, destabilising and the action of gutless people.
    What's their experience/track record in running a professional rugby franchise?
    How do any of us know what happens on a day-to-day basis?
    Un-named sources should put up or shut up.

    There's only two other people "higher on the food chain" - Tony Lewis, CEO and Matt Hodgson, GM Rugby.
    (There's also Andrew Forrest. As the owner and enabler of the WF I reckon he's entitled to have his own expectations for the franchise.)
    Both Tony and Matt have made themselves available for Member scrutiny in the Member's tent and on the fan day at Wanneroo. Anyone can see these blokes at WF HQ or around the training track.
    Where were the rumourmongers then?

    Tim Sampson is a top bloke and did a great job at leading the team through the rebuilding after the WF was axed. 88% win record in GRR. The two losses came at the hands of SR teams.
    Much as we enjoyed the WSR/GRR experience it clearly was not at SR level.

    As far as I'm aware, from all that's been said since late 2017, Tim Sampson, as for all Head Coaches in SR, has the final say/power of veto on ALL matters related to recruitment and game plan.
    It will be a major part of his contract. The buck stops with him.
    Can't imagine that any Head Coach would have it any other way.
    However, ~20% win record is unsustainable for a professional franchise.
    That's why I support the change to Simon Cron.

    We clearly haven't got the player talent for regular success at SR level - but we'll get there.
    So many of our players have to improve their skill set for SR.
    Great on the training track (and I've been there often) but missing when the real pressure is on.
    We certainly have the coaching support staff to build upon what we have but most for <6 months in their jobs.

    There is little evidence of leadership from any of the players being shown on the field.
    It's time for the senior players to step up and show some ticker because little has been evident - all season.
    The coaches are not on the field - the players are. Even a little bit of Invictus would be a big improvement.

    Preparation for this game would have been tough with 4 changes to the starting XV (Kaitu'u, Thrush, Kuenzle and Pulu).
    I would have liked to see the likes of Abra, Pugh, Callan, McDonald (especially) get more game time.
    Right on Andrew!

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    Great game, Fucken battled right through to the 80!

  10. #40
    Immortal jargan83's Avatar
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    Tim Sampson is not solely responsible because he's part of a cabal consisting of Hilary Clinton, the ghost of Ronald Reagan and Harold Holt (from a Chinese submarine off of the coast)

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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewg View Post
    We clearly haven't got the player talent for regular success at SR level - but we'll get there...
    So many of our players have to improve their skill set for SR.
    I hear that Andrew, and agree with most of it. But my concern would be that it ignores thirteen years of history in Super Rugby. Even with the enforced break, the Force has never shown or been able to maintain the player talent and game plan to seriously matter in Super Rugby, so I think the idea that we will get there doing exactly the same things exactly the same way as we always have done is optimistic at best. I think there is every chance that, like probably every coach we have had, Cron may come here and find that a whole bunch of the things they take for granted in NZ and even the Eastern States either don't function the same way or perhaps even exist. And we'll all be pinning our hopes on the next contender for who can turn water to wine.

    The Force is undoubtedly collecting some talent in how to run an organisation, but it is all how to run an organisation when all the fundamentals are securely in place. What I'd really like to know is how are they going to address all the things that are lacking, like an underlying level of competition providing both quantity and quality to improve those skills of players coming through to the main team? If we aren't or can't doing that, money might be another way if we go full Europe/Japan, ignore the salary cap and buy all the best players in the world. Or not, but the one sure thing seems to be that doing exactly the same things as everyone else in exactly the same way as everyone else is just not going to work when starting from a place of significantly disadvantage, in a national system that places the team and state last, in a wider competition that is both internally at odds and under systemic threat from club rugby in other countries. The team is the last of the last, so the question has to be where are the innovations off the field, well before on the field. Just telling/assuming/hoping that the coaches and players can just become smarter and more skilful seems to ignore all the empirical evidence over multiple coaches and masses of players.

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  12. #42
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    As things are, we might get lucky with recruiting/form a la 2014, but I wouldn't count on it. Something needs to change and that, to my mind, is more competitive games. We need to either- drop NZ for a 7-8 team domestic competition (inviting in Fiji and MP) possibly with a combined Champions Cup with the top NZ provincial sides. That'd be an even competition give or take. And/or we need to resurrect GRR or some version thereof to allow proper game time for the Callans, Pughs, McDonalds and our other promising youngsters/U20s reps. Until we have that, we are going nowhere. QLD and NSW have their club comps, leave them to that. Bring in the Rebels and the Brumbies and the old GRR crew and we have an exciting competition in the making.

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    Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast.

  13. #43
    Immortal Contributor shasta's Avatar
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    Well it's been X's suggested 24 hours. But I'd still reckon we might take a collective deep breath and see how things pan out over the next little while before too much hair is torn out
    .
    With the best team available we are not too far off the pace - against Aus opposition anyway. Beginning better would help. Last night we were significantly down on troops but still came back to stay in the fight despite dogged D from the Tahs. After the opening I was thinking 50-60 the way the set-piece was getting monstered
    .
    I was really pissed off last week that we handed the Rabble victory with one really stupid decision after not playing well at all. This week they did better than I expected and I'm pretty OK with it.

    Blind Freddie can see depth is a perennial problem to which there is no magic bullet. I don't see much point in continually putting forward our ideal suggestions for fix-all solutions when the current realities are what they are and unlikely to change. AF (IIRC) said structures would be put together for the long haul & the evidence so far suggests that's in train. I hope the SoB is not turning out to be another Powder Blue Puddle.

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    "The main difference between playing League and Union is that now I get my hangovers on Monday instead of Sunday - Tom David


  14. #44
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    Depth would be less of an issue if our emerging players were getting games under the belt. Otherwise they leave in search of opportunities.

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    Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast.

  15. #45
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    History of the Force would show that we do have some awesome young guys in the squad, but they never get a chance or sit on the bench until the 75th minute of a losing game! Like Saturday night with McDonald give these young fellas a dash and see what happens.
    Thats what shits me is when a player is having a barry and realistically on the downhill slide of his career why waste the young bloke sitting on the bench.
    Constantly a problem with the Force and Australian Rugby.

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