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Thread: From little things big things grow, it's either that or a clusterfuck

  1. #31
    Immortal Contributor shasta's Avatar
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    apparentlythelongesteverpublishedsentence runstoover1000pagesand400,000wordssoidontseeaprobl emhere.

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  2. #32
    Immortal jargan83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shasta View Post
    apparentlythelongesteverpublishedsentence runstoover1000pagesand400,000wordssoidontseeaprobl emhere.
    That's because you were born before the full stop was invented.

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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by westies man View Post
    Got no idea why you are trying to paint those that have different ideas to you as elitist snobs who don't like to mingle with the newcomers. I would personally know a lot of these people and have done for a long time so don't come on here and strut around like some peacock and talk down to the real rugby people like your the messiah.
    Onya Westie, Funny when I spent many hours visiting committee members at these clubs, no body mentioned you. They did mention being lectured via the megaphone, even at RWA club meetings they felt on the outer. Not sure where the words "elitist snobs" comes from - My point was on established successful premier clubs perhaps sharing advice and resources, if you feel you an elitist snob, that your badge to wear. Funny how you then you need to paint me as a peacock because you cannot debate the topic, because you have not been on a community group , because you haven't put your hand up to grow the game outside Wests. I applaud you have known a lot of people for a long time, I haven't... so hang your hat on the fact that you are a legend you can throw the grenades but cannot bat them back with out resorting to name calling, labels and insults.

    No, Bally I have not been to a bunch of games this year at the foreshore and I would dearly love to have been to more, I think you would know the reasons.

    Why don't you guys hell bent on Promotion/Relegation create a complete plan and share it with Shakey at RWA. A few years ago he presented to CRAC - I think Francis was on CRAC at that time - research and conclusions on a number of competition formats to grow the game. One interesting point that was made - In fact I do believe it was your mate Carl - Westie - Premier grade teams and to some extent Reserve grade suck massive resources out of clubs and it's only 3rds, 4ths and women's that generate more for the clubs than take.

    So, in putting your proposals on Promotion/Relegation that relate to Premier Grade - would it not spawn clubs to focus the majority of resources on the one team at the expense of the others?

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  4. #34
    Legend Contributor .X.'s Avatar
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    I will not pretend to know how the Metro WA Club Rugby Club system works ( or doesn't work). I won't/cant comment about it.

    I thought I might share with you what happens in Subbies Rugby in Sydney. Perhaps this might help. Or Not.

    I have been involved with Club Rugby in Western Sydney for over 10 years now. My Club - Hawkesbury Agricultural College Rugby Union Football Club has been playing organised Rugby in Sydney of some form or another for 130 years. Including an annual weekend competition with Duntroon Military College for over 95 years. We have been part of the Suburban (Subbies Rugby) Competition since its inception.

    Subbies is considered the feeder to Shute Shield - which is, depending on who you talk to, the Best Rugby Competition in Australia or, the Devil.

    Subbies has 6 divisions. A couple of years ago - depending on your Division there was a requirement to field "X" number of Senior Grade teams each week along with "Y" number of Colts teams.

    It looked like this

    Division 1 5 Senior Teams 3 Colts Teams
    Division 2 4 Senior Teams 2 Colts Teams
    Division 3 3 Senior Teams 1 Colts Teams
    Division 4 3 Senior Teams 0 Colts Teams
    Division 5 2 Senior Teams 0 Colts Teams
    Division 6 1 Senior Teams 0 Colts Teams

    any failure to field a team (forfeit) costs a club $500 per forfeit.

    This year after much complaining in restructured like this

    Division 1 5 Senior Teams 1 Colts Teams
    Division 2 4 Senior Teams 1 Colts Teams
    Division 3 3 Senior Teams 1 Colts Teams
    Division 4 2 Senior Teams 0 Colts Teams
    Division 5 1 Senior Teams 0 Colts Teams
    Division 6 1 Senior Teams 0 Colts Teams

    Forfeits are generally not penalised.

    Each Division play for Competition trophies for Each grade along with the Divisional Cup for the Club Championship. Points are awarded for wins in each grade. A Colts win - is given the same points value as a win in second grade. Depending on the success or failure of your club in the Club Championship can see your club Promote to a Senior Division, or Relegate to a lower division. You cannot be Promoted to Shute Shield.

    Any questions I will answer as best I can.

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    Exile
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  5. #35
    Veteran Ecky's Avatar
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    So: Subbies is a very large competition which can stand relegation/promotion, one of the main reasons being they club still competes in the same grades (it seems) but in a higher or lower division.

    WA has just the one comp, which makes the whole relegation/promotion thing quite different. A Premier Grade team finishing last could only be relegated to Reserve Grade in the same comp. What would then happen to that club's lower grades? If they have representation in each grade then does the lowest grade team just not exist? Or do the 1sts & 2nds play in the same Reserve Grade comp? Or maybe the lowest and 2nd lowest teams play in the same comp?

    Or we just crack on with the clubs fielding teams in all grades and cricket scores being a regular feature?

    Or split the comp from Round 1 and not mid season? The club's 1sts team's results from the previous year dictate which of the two divisions the whole club plays in perhaps.

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  6. #36
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    A few results today will add fuel to the fire.
    Wanneroo 108--ARKS 0, UWA 81 -S Lions 11, Paly 74- Curtin 10, Neddies 59-0 Cavaliers.
    Not results anyone wants to see or should be gloating over

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  7. #37
    Immortal jargan83's Avatar
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    285 - 10 across 4 grades at Tompkins today.

    Fantastic result for competitive Rugby

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  8. #38
    Veteran Ecky's Avatar
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    More perspective (according to Rugby Xplorer):
    SLions 11- 81 UWA
    Wann 108 - 0 ARKs
    Assoc 14 - 39 Baysie
    Kala 15 - 19 Cott
    Neds 59 - 0 Cavs
    Paly 74 - 10 CUni
    Wests 34 - 26 Joondy

    Bruvvers are 11th and appeared to be competitive with Wests who are 3rd
    Same with Kala (7th) vs Cott (4th)
    Baysie (8th) v Soaks (9th) would seem to have been as competitive on the park as it appeared on paper.

    That said, there is certainly a gap (in points) between Bruvvers (11th on 19 points) and Cavs (12th on 13).
    Top 6 has a points range from 52 to 34, with 7th on 33 and 8th on 31.

    I think we split from next weekend, so Bad luck to Kala and Baysie, but we should now start to see more competitive scorelines.

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  9. #39
    Champion andrewg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ecky View Post

    I think we split from next weekend, so Bad luck to Kala and Baysie, but we should now start to see more competitive scorelines.
    I think next weekend is the postponed Round 3 which sees: PB v Wests; Curtin v Kala; Paly v Neddies and UWA v Roodogs.

    Still room for positions 5 and 6 to change before the split.

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  10. #40
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    By my reckoning Wanneroo need to beat UWA because Kala will get five points by drubbing Curtin. The Dogs' superior points advantage will get them through if that happens. You would expect Kala to get in. Dogs will be wondering what should have been especially that first round debacle with Lions.

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  11. #41
    Champion Contributor sandgroperrugby's Avatar
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    Gee there is a bit of competition in that top 9. UWA have only lost to Kala this year.

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    Generally speaking you arenít learning much if your lips are moving!!!

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ecky View Post
    More perspective (according to Rugby Xplorer):
    SLions 11- 81 UWA
    Wann 108 - 0 ARKs
    Assoc 14 - 39 Baysie
    Kala 15 - 19 Cott
    Neds 59 - 0 Cavs
    Paly 74 - 10 CUni
    Wests 34 - 26 Joondy

    Bruvvers are 11th and appeared to be competitive with Wests who are 3rd
    Same with Kala (7th) vs Cott (4th)
    Baysie (8th) v Soaks (9th) would seem to have been as competitive on the park as it appeared on paper.

    That said, there is certainly a gap (in points) between Bruvvers (11th on 19 points) and Cavs (12th on 13).
    Top 6 has a points range from 52 to 34, with 7th on 33 and 8th on 31.

    I think we split from next weekend, so Bad luck to Kala and Baysie, but we should now start to see more competitive scorelines.
    Hello Ecky,

    All of the clubs beaten by cricket scores on the weekend knew well in advance that would be the case. This will continue perhaps for a few years yet.

    BUT.... we have people playing the game... I know this is different but the AB's put 100+ against Tonga - perhaps Westie would suggest Tonga fold their test side.??

    The 4 newer clubs have 3 teams to field an estimated additional 20 members as opposed to only having to field 2 teams. Equals more people playing the game, more subs for the clubs, isn't that something to be proud of?

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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hansie View Post
    Hello Ecky,

    All of the clubs beaten by cricket scores on the weekend knew well in advance that would be the case. This will continue perhaps for a few years yet.

    BUT.... we have people playing the game... I know this is different but the AB's put 100+ against Tonga - perhaps Westie would suggest Tonga fold their test side.??

    The 4 newer clubs have 3 teams to field an estimated additional 20 members as opposed to only having to field 2 teams. Equals more people playing the game, more subs for the clubs, isn't that something to be proud of?

    4 seasons and no sign of improvement, what sort of time frame should clubs be given? In my opinion the culture at some clubs has gotten worse and not better with time.

    Also, no reason why if there is a championship or Div 2 that those clubs still can't field 3 teams.

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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugaree View Post
    4 seasons and no sign of improvement, what sort of time frame should clubs be given? In my opinion the culture at some clubs has gotten worse and not better with time.

    Also, no reason why if there is a championship or Div 2 that those clubs still can't field 3 teams.
    Agreed 100%

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  15. #45
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    I think they just need to push some of the teams down so they start from 2nd grade. It will be harder for the brains trust to work out the fixtures but there will be a way of making it work.

    eg.

    Premier Grade

    1. UWA
    2. Nedlands
    3. Wests
    4. Cott
    5. Paly
    6. Wanneroo
    7. Kala
    8. Perth
    9. Soaks
    10. Southern Lions
    11. Joondalup
    12. Coastal

    Reserves

    The above 12 teams plus Arks and Curtin. If Arks or Curtin win reserve grade premiership then they can have a playoff against bottom team from premier grade for promotion/relegation the following year.

    Third grade

    Same as reserves

    Fourth Grade

    Optional, whoever wants in

    Fifth Grade

    If required


    If you did the above there would only be 1 or 2 games a year where it is messy which is when your 2nd grade and 3rd grade need to play away against Arks or Curtin for example and premier grade is playing someone else. In those cases they could put the premier grade game on a Friday night for something different as a standalone game and get bigger crowds and more money behind the bar?.

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