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Thread: Competition going forward

  1. #16
    Immortal GIGS20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by palitu View Post
    Something like a draft? they seem to work quite well to move players around the country.
    Careful, I can almost hear the screams from Queensland already

    Quote Originally Posted by chiraag View Post
    And we definitely need the NRC or something to bridge the gap between club and super rugby. Would be great if GRR was resurrected, as it's tough to see RA squeezing the cost of the NRC into their budget the way things are now
    GRR would be fantastic for this purpose, the GRR Force were close to the standard of Super rugby, but clearly a level above the other teams. I wonder what Twiggy's plans are for the idea?

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    One can only wonder, but it would need to include at least some of the Japanese clubs IMO (or perhaps some combined entities to spread the risk/load). I'd see that as complimentary to any plans SR might have, as the individual Japanese teams will be much more GRR than SR for quite some time to come and Jamie Joseph/JRFU were talking about combined entities than club teams for SH interaction (ie the wolfpack approach pre-RWC, not Panasonic or the like).

    Don't really see much need for a NZ based team; they are pretty well covered for development. But in Australia, Adelaide and Newcastle would definitely be my suggestion...they'll not become part of the national footprint any other way, have underlying competitions to leverage, and hopefully wouldn't be lumbered with RA/NSWRU BS. Western Sydney might be possible, but would be more difficult. May be a useful place to base a Samoan team though, if their economics became problematic?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyS View Post
    One can only wonder, but it would need to include at least some of the Japanese clubs IMO (or perhaps some combined entities to spread the risk/load). I'd see that as complimentary to any plans SR might have, as the individual Japanese teams will be much more GRR than SR for quite some time to come and Jamie Joseph/JRFU were talking about combined entities than club teams for SH interaction (ie the wolfpack approach pre-RWC, not Panasonic or the like).Don't really see much need for a NZ based team; they are pretty well covered for development. But in Australia, Adelaide and Newcastle would definitely be my suggestion...they'll not become part of the national footprint any other way, have underlying competitions to leverage, and hopefully wouldn't be lumbered with RA/NSWRU BS. Western Sydney might be possible, but would be more difficult. May be a useful place to base a Samoan team though, if their economics became problematic?
    I wouldn't put anything past RA/NSWRU BSAnd for some reason the arseholes are hell bent on destroying any chance of western Sydney getting a team in any competition so 🤷

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    I'm struggling to get excited by any of the options going forward under the current Covid regime which I expect will still impact the Indo-Pacific region though the 2021 rugby season.

    RA is doing very little to welcome the WF back into the fold and I reckon that we're getting the rough end of the pineapple in refereeing decisions.
    How can the most penalised team in SRAu have ZERO penalties to the WF 9 in the 1st half of rugby?

    So until there are basic structural and governance changes in RA and the way the game is managed in Australia then we'll continue to get a raw deal from RA and the Sydney/Melbourne cabal that runs rugby.
    We're not too far way from the Wallabies coach being able to pick players from wherever he want to field the best team.

    So for me 2022 will be more of the same - but don't rule out possible WF involvement in NZ.
    5 NZ + Fiji + Pacifica = 7 so I can't see why NZ will be happy with a bye if it can be avoided.
    Way too early for a team from Japan as they are a bit preoccupied in making their pro comp work.
    The WF 42 player extended squad doesn't have to grow too much more to be able to have a team in OZ and NZ.

    I can't see any change in Tattarang's focus for GRR to grow the game in the Indo Pacific region and build upon the bridges that have already been established in the inaugural season with links between Sth Africa/Malaysia and NZ/China.

    However, in a post-Covid world in 2023 I would expect more involvement from NZ and Japan.
    RA and Australia's East coast will still be pre-occupied in shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic.

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    A kiwi amber light for Drua and Moana...

    (whether and how it pans out, TBD)


    Fiji, Pasifika teams confirmed starters in Super Rugby 2022

    By Sam Phillips
    April 14, 2021 — 12.02pm

    The Fijian Drua and Moana Pasifika been granted conditional licences for entry into the Super Rugby competition in 2022.

    World Rugby last month pledged a $2.16 million annual package to help guide the teams through their first three years in the competition and Rugby Australia and New Zealand Rugby have now deemed the expansion to a 12-team competition financially viable.

    “In a significant step forward for Pacific Island rugby, Moana Pasifika and the Fijian Drua have been granted conditional licences to join a planned new professional competition next year, New Zealand Rugby (NZR) announced today,” a NZR statement said.

    “The NZR Board’s decision to approve licences is a major step toward the two Pasifika teams joining NZR’s existing five Sky Super Rugby Aotearoa clubs and Rugby Australia’s (RA) five Super Rugby AU teams in a new tournament being planned for 2022 and is conditional on their final business plans and RA’s support.”

    NZR chief executive Mark Robinson said the teams were now in the “final phase” of planning ahead of the 2022 season.

    “We are moving into the final phase of planning for 2022 and beyond, and we have confidence that Moana Pasifika and the Fijian Drua will be able to meet the conditions of the licence, which includes final sign off on a sustainable business plan by 30 June,” Robinson said.

    “In the next two months we will be working with Rugby Australia and the two Pasifika teams to formalise their place in the new competition for what we believe will kick off an exciting, new era for the professional game.”

    The Pasifika team is expected to be partly based in south Auckland and the Fijians - who were part of the now-defunct NRC - could be partly based in western Sydney.

    “That’s one thing that’s been brought up,” Fiji general manager of rugby Simon Raiwalui told the Herald.

    “Obviously Fiji is a small market. We would definitely look at playing matches externally. Whether that’s in Australia, New Zealand or whatever other opportunities become available to us.

    “With the Fijian and Pasifika communities in both countries and throughout south-east Asia, there are huge communities and huge support for anything Fiji rugby. That’s definitely an opportunity.”

    Raiwalui believes the lure of returning home will help bring many Fijian stars now plying their trade abroad back to Fiji in the near future.

    “One thing we don’t struggle with is talent. That’s our strongest resource. Obviously, it’s going to come down to timing with contracts and turnover,” he said.

    “The first couple of years it’s going to be about building that initial squad. We have obviously talked to a lot of our talent worldwide. Whether that’s Australia, New Zealand or Europe.

    “And there is a lot of interest to come back at the first opportunity to come and live in Fiji. To work and live in their home country, with their families and be able to earn a competitive salary

    “It’s going to come down to timing but it’s not going to just be a one year project. It’s about planning over the next two, three, four or five years and targeting guys we want to bring back.”

    https://www.theage.com.au/sport/rugb...14-p57j3l.html

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    It'd be interesting to see how financially viable it would be for the teams to okay some, if not all, their games on-island

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    So do we get to keep the toast rack?

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    That's good news indeed. Very interested in seeing what sort of format they're looking at. Back to a round robin 12 team comp, some sort of conference system, or extending this year's structure to next year.

    Definitely a step in the right direction for the Pacific Islanders which will hopefully keep more of their talent locally and in the southern hemisphere in the long run. That should also assist in helping Australia with regular exposure to their different style of rugby, as well being a decent draw for crowds.

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    I think the smart move would be to continue with this year's format. I think viewers will switch off a straight round robin, as going back to the way things were. At the moment it is all something different and novel, so best ride it. They won't be able to reverse the decision if it turns out wrong.

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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyS View Post
    I think the smart move would be to continue with this year's format. I think viewers will switch off a straight round robin, as going back to the way things were. At the moment it is all something different and novel, so best ride it. They won't be able to reverse the decision if it turns out wrong.
    I tend to agree. I mentioned TV ratings being core to what Ch 9 will agree to for future rights. I think we all accept that the FTA audience is key, so I spent 20 minutes having a squiz.

    Saturday games have no FTA competition from the NRL. But most played at night have to go up against AFL. In rounds 1 & 2 the audiences on GEM were 91,000 for the Reds V Tahs, and 84,000 for the Brums and Tahs both with no AFL competition. From there, after AFL kicked off, until last week there is no mention - so they didn't even rate in the top 20 programs on the multi-channels. Last week 91,000 watched the Reds V Ponies. The AFL match that night was no "blockbuster" with the Suns V Carlton.

    RA/Stan/9 probably didn't foresee how toilet the Tahs would be. But with the winning Reds featuring more than the rest, the viewership is still not setting the world on fire. The smart play looking forward would be to play the FTA match at a more traditional 2-3pm on Saturdays and to schedule this years finals the same. With no NRL on FTA that would be the logical move to get Mungo fans to watch - and maybe cough up the 10 bucks for Stan. But that could also piss off a lot of people in club land.

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    Good commentary piece from Morgs

    Fiji’s Super entry has the ingredients for a runaway success

    By Morgan Turinui
    April 15, 2021 — 7.45pm

    This week, New Zealand Rugby announced that it had granted conditional licences for participation in Super Rugby 2022 to Moana Pasifika and the Fijian Drua.

    After all these years, and so many individual players of note, it seems that the Pacific Islands have arrived. To put it simply, Moana Pasifika look to be another NZ franchise who will funnel players through to the All Blacks. The significant difference being a set-up based around cultural background, as opposed to geography.

    The huge positive is more people with Pacific backgrounds in roles contributing to governance, administration and high performance coaching, which is a rarity - apart from perhaps the latter - for rugby in the Southern Hemisphere.

    The Fijian Drua on the other hand will be, and must be, a Super Rugby team supported by World Rugby and run by Fijian Rugby.

    The Fijian Drua were an immediate hit in Australia’s NRC. They won the competition in 2018 and were wholeheartedly supported by the Fijian community wherever they played throughout their three-year stint.

    The brand of rugby they played was, at times, irrepressible. Any other iteration of the Drua, including one where Australian and New Zealand Rugby try to use it as a part of their pathways, would be disingenuous.

    With South Africa and Argentina’s futures in Super Rugby uncertain and all those fun away trips to the Republic and Buenos Aires appearing to be a thing of the past, the least SANZAAR officials could do is give the travel-starved current players a few days on the Coral Coast.

    The Drua should be part of the Australian conference in an initial stage of Super Rugby and if post-Covid travel and budgetary restrictions make a Fiji-based Drua difficult initially, then the Drua could be based in Western Sydney and a relationship established to play some games at Bankwest, the best viewing ground in the country.

    The Fijian Kaviti Silvertails are a good example of how this model could work. This Fijian selection rugby league team will be part of the NSW Cup for the foreseeable future. But a Super Rugby team is on a much grander scale.

    The Australian Government, Rugby Australia and the World Rugby-backed entity that is Oceania Rugby are already working hard with the Fijian Rugby Union to help develop the community game and specifically to identify female leaders, while also using Fiji’s incomparable affinity with the game to strengthen communities via the values of Rugby.

    The Fijian Drua in Super Rugby would be the Big Bang that accelerates and validates it all.

    Regardless of where are they based, the Drua should be a Fijian team and the goal must be that they are a Fiji-based team. That is what needs to be done to support rugby in the Pacific with the ultimate goal to get Tonga and Samoa to the same place. (Add Japanese representation ASAP and it’s starting to look good commercially, and in a sporting sense).

    What’s in it for Australian Rugby must also be a consideration, even as we assume our role as leaders in the region, and support the continued Rugby development of Tonga, Samoa and Fiji specifically, and Oceania Rugby as a whole.

    I see two major positives a sixth team would give Super Rugby AU, if that competition is to continue.

    First, there would be a third game per week which is desirable, and, seriously, what a team it would be. The Drua thrilled spectators in their stint in NRC and will certainly be very different to the way teams like the Rebels and Brumbies play. In style of play, they will provide a great challenge for the five Australian teams.

    And second, the magnificent Fijian supporters. Wherever Fijian teams play rugby, their countrymen and women buy tickets, turn up in droves, wear their teams colours and put a raucous atmosphere into every stadium. They bring fun to every match their team plays in.

    The only strange part about the news of ‘conditional entry’ to Super Rugby of Fiji and Moana Pasifika is that it didn’t come from a SANZAAR announcement, or even a joint NZ Rugby-Rugby Australia announcement.

    With Australia’s record of support for the Drua, RA’s position would seem obvious but some clarity from all of SANZAAR’s members would be encouraging.

    It has been described as a new dawn for Super Rugby. But these are old friends from the Pacific, and their entry into Super Rugby is not before time.

    https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-u...15-p57jml.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by shasta View Post
    I tend to agree. I mentioned TV ratings being core to what Ch 9 will agree to for future rights. I think we all accept that the FTA audience is key, so I spent 20 minutes having a squiz.

    Saturday games have no FTA competition from the NRL. But most played at night have to go up against AFL. In rounds 1 & 2 the audiences on GEM were 91,000 for the Reds V Tahs, and 84,000 for the Brums and Tahs both with no AFL competition. From there, after AFL kicked off, until last week there is no mention - so they didn't even rate in the top 20 programs on the multi-channels. Last week 91,000 watched the Reds V Ponies. The AFL match that night was no "blockbuster" with the Suns V Carlton.

    RA/Stan/9 probably didn't foresee how toilet the Tahs would be. But with the winning Reds featuring more than the rest, the viewership is still not setting the world on fire. The smart play looking forward would be to play the FTA match at a more traditional 2-3pm on Saturdays and to schedule this years finals the same. With no NRL on FTA that would be the logical move to get Mungo fans to watch - and maybe cough up the 10 bucks for Stan. But that could also piss off a lot of people in club land.
    The Reds v Tahs game drew 97k on Gem. For the most part the games have tended to follow the historic trends in terms of ratings with Reds/Tahs games drawing the most then either one of them vs the Brumbies and so on. They also don't register regionals either. Which looking at other sporting competition tend to add around 50% more to the total. Add the Stan figures and the games aren't doing too badly. Anyone expecting them to be even close to the likes of the NRL and AFL from year 1 was living in a fantasy. The key is they are actually significantly than under Fox. Significantly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ham105 View Post
    Good commentary piece from Morgs

    Fiji’s Super entry has the ingredients for a runaway success

    By Morgan Turinui
    April 15, 2021 — 7.45pm

    This week, New Zealand Rugby announced that it had granted conditional licences for participation in Super Rugby 2022 to Moana Pasifika and the Fijian Drua.

    After all these years, and so many individual players of note, it seems that the Pacific Islands have arrived. To put it simply, Moana Pasifika look to be another NZ franchise who will funnel players through to the All Blacks. The significant difference being a set-up based around cultural background, as opposed to geography.

    The huge positive is more people with Pacific backgrounds in roles contributing to governance, administration and high performance coaching, which is a rarity - apart from perhaps the latter - for rugby in the Southern Hemisphere.

    The Fijian Drua on the other hand will be, and must be, a Super Rugby team supported by World Rugby and run by Fijian Rugby.

    The Fijian Drua were an immediate hit in Australia’s NRC. They won the competition in 2018 and were wholeheartedly supported by the Fijian community wherever they played throughout their three-year stint.

    The brand of rugby they played was, at times, irrepressible. Any other iteration of the Drua, including one where Australian and New Zealand Rugby try to use it as a part of their pathways, would be disingenuous.

    With South Africa and Argentina’s futures in Super Rugby uncertain and all those fun away trips to the Republic and Buenos Aires appearing to be a thing of the past, the least SANZAAR officials could do is give the travel-starved current players a few days on the Coral Coast.

    The Drua should be part of the Australian conference in an initial stage of Super Rugby and if post-Covid travel and budgetary restrictions make a Fiji-based Drua difficult initially, then the Drua could be based in Western Sydney and a relationship established to play some games at Bankwest, the best viewing ground in the country.

    The Fijian Kaviti Silvertails are a good example of how this model could work. This Fijian selection rugby league team will be part of the NSW Cup for the foreseeable future. But a Super Rugby team is on a much grander scale.

    The Australian Government, Rugby Australia and the World Rugby-backed entity that is Oceania Rugby are already working hard with the Fijian Rugby Union to help develop the community game and specifically to identify female leaders, while also using Fiji’s incomparable affinity with the game to strengthen communities via the values of Rugby.

    The Fijian Drua in Super Rugby would be the Big Bang that accelerates and validates it all.

    Regardless of where are they based, the Drua should be a Fijian team and the goal must be that they are a Fiji-based team. That is what needs to be done to support rugby in the Pacific with the ultimate goal to get Tonga and Samoa to the same place. (Add Japanese representation ASAP and it’s starting to look good commercially, and in a sporting sense).

    What’s in it for Australian Rugby must also be a consideration, even as we assume our role as leaders in the region, and support the continued Rugby development of Tonga, Samoa and Fiji specifically, and Oceania Rugby as a whole.

    I see two major positives a sixth team would give Super Rugby AU, if that competition is to continue.

    First, there would be a third game per week which is desirable, and, seriously, what a team it would be. The Drua thrilled spectators in their stint in NRC and will certainly be very different to the way teams like the Rebels and Brumbies play. In style of play, they will provide a great challenge for the five Australian teams.

    And second, the magnificent Fijian supporters. Wherever Fijian teams play rugby, their countrymen and women buy tickets, turn up in droves, wear their teams colours and put a raucous atmosphere into every stadium. They bring fun to every match their team plays in.

    The only strange part about the news of ‘conditional entry’ to Super Rugby of Fiji and Moana Pasifika is that it didn’t come from a SANZAAR announcement, or even a joint NZ Rugby-Rugby Australia announcement.

    With Australia’s record of support for the Drua, RA’s position would seem obvious but some clarity from all of SANZAAR’s members would be encouraging.

    It has been described as a new dawn for Super Rugby. But these are old friends from the Pacific, and their entry into Super Rugby is not before time.

    https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-u...15-p57jml.html
    I think a lot will hinge on how the TT competition is received. But I wouldn't mind a conference set up at all. I never got the issues people had with them. At least not initially in S15. They made sense. It was only when they had to shoehorn in the Kings and then install the Sunwolves alongside the Jags into a mess of a SA conference when it moved to 18 that it became silly and overly complicated for many.

    Run two conferences. Home and away. With a final. Then take the points accrued in both and form a combined table. Play the crossover games and then run a 6 team finals series. Start to finish. That's 20 weeks. We get the best of both worlds.

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    Last edited by WCRugger; 16-04-21 at 08:07.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyS View Post
    I think the smart move would be to continue with this year's format. I think viewers will switch off a straight round robin, as going back to the way things were. At the moment it is all something different and novel, so best ride it. They won't be able to reverse the decision if it turns out wrong.
    Hmm...there seems to be a lot of nostalgia for the old S12 in some quarter. But I tend to believe a 16 round season is likely the best option. What will be interesting is if the reported interest from Japan to engage in some kind of cross border Cup competition featuring teams from their incoming professional structure comes to fruition. That's a market both RA and NZR would be keen to engage with. What impact will that have?

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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by WCRugger View Post
    The key is they are actually significantly than under Fox. Significantly.
    I suppose that's significantly better than Fox? That's great. I didn't look at Stan. I was more thinking of the aspect of growing new audiences and how the FTA games are placed. Our figures are slightly different. I suppose that depends on which ratings agency provides figures? I got them from TV Tonight. They don't seem to count regionals. Were the Stan figures better than Fox on their own? That would be even better from 9/Stan's point of view, comparing apples with apples.

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