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Thread: Where to from here?

  1. #1
    Immortal GIGS20's Avatar
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    Where to from here?

    I've been struggling with this since last night so I'd like a little bit of input.

    After the last two weeks, it's pretty clear to me that, should we make it to the finals, were unlikely to win.

    Based upon current form Weil likely push somebody all the way but not be able to score enough even if they're being complacent.

    The rebels match will be season defining. We need to thrash them to have a chance of making the finals.

    If that doesn't happen, which way do we go?

    Do we say that the international superstar experiment has failed and we need to build like thorn did with Queensland?

    Do we say that the internationals are the only reason we beat the tahs?

    Is it coaching?

    Is it me throwing the baby out with the bathwater?

    Is it something I haven't considered?

    For the record, I don't think the way pathway will be able to generate the volume of talent available to Queensland and therefore doing a classic Brad thorn is out of the question (Phil Mooney also did it with Qld, but didn't survive the number of losses)

    We do have a passionate rugby community, desperate for a genuine pathway for the talented boys but it isn't big enough to supply a whole team. In that way, were a bit like the act (apart from them having southern NSW to draw from)

    They seem to do ok, with a number of locals in their squad.

    I think, if things don't go the way we want in the next two weeks, we need to refocus on Aussie talent and a clear, effective playing style with a young team that is aware that it's ok to learn on the job.

    To repeat the short term focus on quality imports (I'm not denying their quality) when it's proven ineffective is unwise.

    Discuss

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  2. #2
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    Itís a tough one but last night we had a lot of injuries mostly the experienced guys? I desperately want to see Godwin and McDonald play. I think we need some help with attack. Any amazing specialist attack coaches able to come and offer some consulting?

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    Legend Contributor .X.'s Avatar
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    We won't thrash the Rebels. I would be surprised if we beat them

    Coach Wessels has some voodoo magic up his sleeve that makes the Force players do stupid shit and we will snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory.

    I honestly believe that we are on the right track. Time on the paddock together for the players and coaching staff will fix it. As will patience for the Sea of Blue.

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    Immortal GIGS20's Avatar
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    I agree with your assessment of the revs X.

    Time on the paddock will be pointless with a lot of the experienced guys after that as there are bunches of 1 year contracts.

    After that match, their value is higher off the park, getting next year's team blooded and ready to exit the blocks at full sprint.

    I still wonder whether it's the plan that's the issue or the execution.

    We're not the only team that empties the ruck to fill the one, but it doesn't seem to pay off.

    We're not the only team playing multi-phase, we might even be the best in the comp at sustaining phases, but likely the worst (maybe not worse than the tahs) at generating a line break as a result.

    Are we too structured? Do we just have roles that we play and they never change even when it's not working?

    Are we hampered by having a flyhalf with all the vision, but not the chops to use it (Jono) and one with all the skills but not the vision (McIntyre)

    Are we full of mercenaries happy to just collect a paycheck (I'm not seeing that, but it's a possibility)

    Have we been seduced by the hype in some cases (medrano is solid, but doesn't appear to be any more of a threat than holmsey)

    I mean, I know a bunch of these questions can't be answered by anyone here, but last night's game needs to elicit a response from the team.

    Preferably on the field

    Certainly not from the or voice

    We need to show that the margin was an aberration and not the beginning of a confidence crisis which places us at tahs level.

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  5. #5
    Immortal GIGS20's Avatar
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    Speaking of the tahs, is anybody pissed off that the tahs performing about as well as we did last year is a disaster for all of Aussie rugby in a way that seemed perfectly ok with Aussie rugby when it was us.

    I would argue that all Aussie teams need to perform for Aussie rugby to be strong, that seems to be the way the do it in the shaky Isles.

    (I think I just hijacked my own thread)

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    We can't say the international superstar experiment failed because we don't have any international superstars. We have a couple of blokes past their prime and a couple of Argies who are Super Rugby standard.

    Our attack seems worse than last year so I'd call that a coaching issue.

    I think we need:
    - To persist with some of our young forwards, but to bring Hardwick or Tizzano back.
    - A 10 who plays flatter and better.
    - Some better wings. Brache is a great bloke and all, but he doesn't add much and there are younger, uncapped players we could be using.
    - If you are going to spend big money, make a big play for Samu Kerevi. Reds have Paisami.

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    Immortal Contributor shasta's Avatar
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    Try to be patient. The blokes running the show know a bit. Some are good at recruiting talent, some about running a businesses (shit loads of them), some know about both areas and have a record of of how to run a successful Rugby franchise. The decimation of our pathways can't be turned around over night but the foundations are being put in place. Most of all; don't get too despondent over a heavy loss by a side with an injury list as long your arm, to a champion team that's pretty much at full strength. This is really only half way through Year 1.

    Could be a lot worse. Like supporting a team with an enormous pathway system and 139 years of history, who can't bet time with a stick at the moment.

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    Despondency is allowed for the rest of the weekend shasta

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    Immortal Contributor shasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIGS20 View Post
    Despondency is allowed for the rest of the weekend shasta
    Fair enough. There is a fairly important match at HBF soon. After barely a mention for our boys better performances so far, this is the take at the SMH and it's pitiful little brother WA Today.....

    Brumbies flog Force to keep pressure on ladder-leading Reds

    ...................The heavy Force loss will also give Waratahs fans hope the wooden spoon is not inevitable.

    Through five rounds of Super Rugby AU, the Force and Waratahs are clearly a level below the other three Australian side
    s..........

    It might help your despondency a little if members were kept a little better informed of our injury situation. The other codes publish injury lists including what's damaged and how long the likely rehab period will be. Coaches still play ducks & drakes with providing match day lists but it seems to me we are usually kept guessing.

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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by shasta View Post
    Fair enough. There is a fairly important match at HBF soon. After barely a mention for our boys better performances so far, this is the take at the SMH and it's pitiful little brother WA Today.....Brumbies flog Force to keep pressure on ladder-leading Reds...................The heavy Force loss will also give Waratahs fans hope the wooden spoon is not inevitable.Through five rounds of Super Rugby AU, the Force and Waratahs are clearly a level below the other three Australian sides..........It might help your despondency a little if members were kept a little better informed of our injury situation. The other codes publish injury lists including what's damaged and how long the likely rehab period will be. Coaches still play ducks & drakes with providing match day lists but it seems to me we are usually kept guessing.
    I actually don't disagree with either of those statements in the smh today.I hope not to see the second one occur, but with a couple more games under their belts there is the possibility that the tahs will play themselves into enough form to upset the force, especially if we don't get some injured players back.We certainly need a strong performance out of the bye to dispel the doubt

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    My two cents: bringing in big-name players, many of whom are only on one one year contracts, has not worked. Thatís assuming the aim was to win more games this season.

    I donít blame the coaches and I donít blame the individual players - none of them go out to give less than 100%. But, as Iíve said before, I do scratch my head about what the overall, long-term strategy is. Or are they only looking as far as the end of 2022 when SANZAAR decides what the longer term future is for super rugby?

    Would be great if the Force could hold a membersí forum at the end of this season so we can ask some of these questions.

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  12. #12
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    I'd have to agree Ali, the one season internationals hasn't worked but was it a bad idea?

    I've been generally onboard with the concept, but perhaps we didn't chase it hard enough?

    Maybe we needed to go for higher profile, more current names? Would that have produced the required effect?

    Perhaps we should have chased high profile Australian players with the idea that they would gel more quickly?

    Maybe we needed to buy an entire squad of test caps to cope with injury?

    I don't know the answer, but we're on the verge of these 1 year guys having only made us just better than the tahs (and this year, I think we already were)

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  13. #13
    Legend Contributor Alison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIGS20 View Post
    I'd have to agree Ali, the one season internationals hasn't worked but was it a bad idea?

    I've been generally onboard with the concept, but perhaps we didn't chase it hard enough?

    Maybe we needed to go for higher profile, more current names? Would that have produced the required effect?

    Perhaps we should have chased high profile Australian players with the idea that they would gel more quickly?

    Maybe we needed to buy an entire squad of test caps to cope with injury?

    I don't know the answer, but we're on the verge of these 1 year guys having only made us just better than the tahs (and this year, I think we already were)
    Not sure whether a bad idea. But itís never really worked well for the Force before.

    That said, we did need more players this year who were up to super rugby standard, and with the QRU and NSWRUís policies of not letting their young homegrown players play elsewhere unless the Reds or Tahs say officially that they donít want them, our player pool is limited. And of course our own pathways are still in the process of re-establishing themselves after the 2017 gutting.

    Itís a tough conundrum.

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    What gets my goat is we keep playing the same shit style of attack we played 3 years ago! IT DOESN"T FUCKING WORK! Throwing the ball to the first receiver that stands too far away that allows 2 of the slowest monsters to smash them is just pure insanity yet we repeat the process time and again. What we need is someone on the park with brains who can recognise this and change it. When we actually did change the attack for part of the second half lo and behold we challenged the Brumbies defense.
    I've said it for a while 1 of the main reasons the Reds are scoring great tries is because they have a smart scrum half who takes a gamble and creates things.
    Its like we're too structured, too much coaching maybe?

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  15. #15
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    True Blood, it was a worry when prior came on and looked faster and sharper than Cinelli had all match

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