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Thread: SANZAAR faces axe as details of NZ Rugby's 'Aratipu' review emerge

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alison View Post
    Hmmmm can’t see Rob Clarke ever agreeing to cut his beloved Rebels.
    I think you are right...


    'Master-servant': McLennan whacks New Zealand Super Rugby plan

    By Georgina Robinson
    July 10, 2020 — 12.01am

    Rugby Australia chairman Hamish McLennan delivered a scathing assessment of New Zealand plans to limit Australia to two or three teams in a trans-Tasman competition, calling the dynamic between the nations "master-servant" as negotiations heat up over the future of Super Rugby.

    McLennan paid tribute to the longstanding ties between the two rugby nations but said Australia needed the maximum number of teams in whatever replaced the ailing competition in 2021 and suggested New Zealand would be foolish to walk away from what Australia had to offer.

    He was backed up the chairs of the NSW and Queensland Rugby Unions in a move to go it alone in an amped-up domestic competition, potentially featuring city and country sides from NSW and Queensland, the Western Force and a Big Bash-style injection of foreign talent from South Africa and Argentina.

    "I love New Zealand and its people and we have strong cultural ties and a rich rugby heritage, but it feels a bit master-servant at the moment," McLennan said.

    "If we're building up to the [2023] World Cup and rebuilding Australian rugby we need the maximum amount of teams in the competition, including our friends at the Force.

    "From what I've heard, the Super Rugby clubs on both sides of the Tasman have been speaking and I hear they want a fullblown trans-Tasman competition as well.

    Everyone would prefer a full trans-Tasman next year but we've got our own options and we're not going to be beholden to a one-horse race.
    NSW chairman Roger Davis

    "What we have is a much larger population of 25 million and a bigger economy and it would be very sad if New Zealand didn't tap into that."

    McLennan's comments came as New Zealand Rugby went into damage control over a Herald report the union was trying to strong-arm Australia into accepting a niche presence in an eight-team Super Rugby replacement.

    The union's Aratipu strategic review has not been released publicly but various leaks have revealed it canvases the dismantling of the SANZAAR joint venture for all but Test rugby, and a professional competition featuring the five New Zealand teams, two or three Australian teams and potentially a Pacific Islands side.

    NZR boss Mark Robinson said suggestions, floated by the Herald, that his board was divided on the way forward were "nonsense" and that he had been on the phone to his RA counterpart Rob Clarke on Thursday. The Herald has been told Robinson's early morning call broke a long period of silence from across the ditch.

    "There is absolutely no division on our board whatsoever, it's absolute nonsense to suggest so," Robinson said.

    "I talked to Rob Clarke this morning about a whole range of different things and the partnership, shared with him where we were getting to with timing. There's been good dialogue there.

    "There's nothing we're hearing about what they would and wouldn't be open to at this stage."

    NSW chairman Roger Davis and Queensland chairman Jeff Miller confirmed to the Herald they had been briefed by RA on proposals for alternative competition structures if New Zealand held fast.

    "Everyone would prefer to be in a full trans-Tasman bubble next year but we've got our own options here and we're not going to be beholden to a one-horse race," Davis said. "We met with Rugby Australia this morning and we talked about alternatives and we are determined to pursue the best option for Australia. If the New Zealanders aren't interested we'll go our own way."

    The Waratahs' Kiwi coach Rob Penney also weighed into the debate.

    "If New Zealand don't get positive around the relationship they have with Australia that is their loss," Penney said.

    "They probably see themselves in a powerful bubble, which they have done for a number of years. So be it. We'll create one here and then they'll come knocking I'm sure."

    https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-u...09-p55any.html

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    RA chair Hamish McLennan to offer Fox Sports a two-year deal

    Wayne Smith
    July 10, 2020

    It is the way broadcast deals have been done in southern hemisphere rugby since the dawn of the professional era, but Rugby Australia boss Hamish McLennan is challenging convention, insisting he is prepared to do a deal for a minimum of just two years.

    Ever since the then Australian Rugby Union brokered a deal with Fox Sport in 1995 for $US550m, the broadcast rights have always been negotiated in five-year cycles.

    But with the current deal set to expire in December and the game of rugby in global upheaval because of the COVID-19 pandemic, McLennan sees no reason for either Fox or RA to lock itself into terms that could quickly change almost overnight.

    “We are completely open to doing a deal for two, three or five years,” he said on Thursday.

    The expectation is that the day of the huge broadcast deal is long over in this depressed environment. In that event, RA looks to be backing itself and deferring a longer deal until it is back on its feet, both financially and as a rugby power.

    Present circumstances could hardly be worse for RA, with the pandemic forcing the abandonment of Super Rugby, RA boss Raelene Castle being forced to resign, and McLennan inheriting the role of chairman after the mooted likely chairman resigned from the board.

    A deal, understood to be worth around $8 million, finally was done with Fox to enable the Super Rugby AU competition to start up last week. But money is so tight that NSW flew up and back to Brisbane in the space of 16 hours for last Friday’s match against the Reds. The Reds will do the same when they travel to Sydney to play Melbourne Rebels tonight at Brookvale Oval.

    And things may have taken a turn for the worse with Australian officials learning that half of the New Zealand Rugby board favour an eight-team competition, featuring the five existing Kiwi Super Rugby sides, a Pacific Islands team and just two Australian franchises.

    That is impossibly removed from the five teams Australia has argued for – the Waratahs, Reds, Brumbies and Rebels along with the side booted out of Super Rugby in 2017, the Andrew Forrest-funded Western Force. Yet even if that presumably contrived leak represents no more than New Zealand hardliners’ opening negotiating gambit, it is hard to see how any compromise could arrive at more than four Australian sides, at best.

    Australia went through enough grief three years ago without subjecting itself to another fratricidal round of “who should stay and who should go”. Besides, the new board won widespread approval by announcing its commitment to getting grassroots rugby moving again, and culling another team would be an unmitigated disaster.

    There are green shoots evident, however.

    All four teams involved in last weekend’s matches showcased the brilliant young talent in the system. The hope is that today’s youth will end up leading a resurgence in Australian rugby in a year or two, but if RA now sells its rights long-term in the current market, it is dooming itself to living a hand-to-mouth existence.

    But before it can go to the broadcasters, RA needs to have the 2021 competition sorted, which makes negotiations over the next fortnight critical.

    Still, Australia will not completely be at the mercy of the Kiwis. As the only contender for the 2027 World Cup, Australia is in a position to offer New Zealand the opportunity to stage the pool involving the All Blacks, so the more generous the Kiwi position on a trans-Tasman competition, the more generous Australia can afford to be with its World Cup offer.

    NSW Rugby Union chairman Roger Davis said that the universal opinion was for a trans-Tasman competition.

    “A full trans-Tasman,” Davis stipulated. “There is not a shadow of a chance of us going ahead with only two sides. Can you imagine what that would do to the game in Australia?

    “If the New Zealanders don’t want to party with what is a common-sense solution in the interest of both nations, both sets of players and the broadcaster, then we have plenty of other good options. We will go our way and they will be the loser for it.”

    Wayne Smith
    Senior Sport Writer

    https://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...4?from=htc_rss

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  3. #18
    Veteran chibi's Avatar
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    Master-servant? I thought it was more Oedipal mother and child

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    Japan and the Pacific Islands for Aussie Super 9's!

    Let's have one of these in WA! Click this link: Saitama Super Arena - New Perth Stadium?

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    Legend Contributor Alison's Avatar
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    It’s certainly men vs boys

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    Proudly Western Australian; Proudly supporting Western Australian rugby

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    Immortal Contributor The InnFORCEr's Avatar
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    Dry July! Tong Master 141 Club Award TWF Contributor! TWF Competition Winner!
    "If we're building up to the [2023] World Cup and rebuilding Australian rugby we need the maximum amount of teams in the competition, including our friends at the Force.

    Oh how things have changed

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    80 Minutes, 15 Positions, No Protection, Wanna Ruck?

    Ruck Me, Maul Me, Make Me Scrum!

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    Quote Originally Posted by The InnFORCEr View Post
    including our friends at the Force.

    Oh how things have changed
    Probably not. The sad thing about betrayal is that it doesn't come from an enemy.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by shasta View Post
    Probably not. The sad thing about betrayal is that it doesn't come from an enemy.....
    Truer words rarely spoken

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ham105 View Post
    "Everyone would prefer to be in a full trans-Tasman bubble next year but we've got our own options here and we're not going to be beholden to a one-horse race," Davis said.
    Roger Davis admitting that, if NSW and QLD are the two Aussie teams competing in Superugby Trans-Tasman, they will not even begin to compete.

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    C'mon the

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    Addition of Pasifika Super Rugby team 'overdue', says 1 NEWS Sport's Scotty Stevenson

    11:57AM • SOURCE: 1 NEWS

    With the recent success of the Super Rugby Aotearoa competition, the focus now turns to the future as New Zealand looks to use the current template and expand for seasons ahead.

    1 NEWS Sports reporter, Scotty Stevenson, says New Zealand Rugby is looking at creating an entity to own and operate a new look Super Rugby tournament, with the inclusion of a Pacific team a strong possibility.

    Stevenson noted that there is strong support within the New Zealand rugby community for a Pasifika team.

    "I think that they want an eight-team competition. Five New Zealand teams, a Pasifika team, and that's been pushed really hard by the chairman of New Zealand Rugby and of course by the Players Association as well," Stevenson said.

    Stevenson said that a Pacific presence in Super Rugby is "overdue" and with the current global situation, it is the right time to bring a Pacific team into the fold.

    "It's overdue for New Zealand or Australia, to get into the Pacific and say "you're us, this our backyard", because at the moment this is what we've got. New Zealand, the Pacific and potentially Australia in the future is what we've got.

    "There's five Australian clubs who are interested in being a part of that, only room for two"

    Breakfast presenter and die-hard Hurricanes fan, John Campbell, says he is for the idea but noted that a large number of Pacific players are currently competing in northern hemisphere competitions.

    "I'm obsessed with the Pasifika team because I really like the idea but how the hell would it work because there's five or 600 Pasifika players up earning their keep in the northern hemisphere right?"

    Stevenson however, pointed out that a large number of northern hemisphere players are currently in New Zealand with the majority of European tournaments shuttered due to Covid-19. Although, the financial challenges and the logistical nightmare of having one team spread across a number of islands may be a potential roadblock.

    "Who comes up with the money? All of these investors in these clubs are going to be asked to put guarantees up for this entity. Who is selling the licenses? Who is buying this license? Who is going to run this team, is the big question, and where is it going to be based?" Stevenson said.

    Despite the challenges, Stevenson suggested the possibility of a Pasifika team coming together later this year to face off with the All Blacks in order to help them prepare for their Bledisloe Cup tests.

    "Are we going to see this Pasifika team, perhaps cobble together very quickly, to provide opposition for the All Blacks ahead of the Bledisloe Cup tests, that could be an intriguing proposition too."

    Pressure is escalating from both sides of the Tasman for New Zealand Rugby to agree to a full contingent of Australian teams in any post-Super Rugby franchise competition from next year.

    NZR will next week unveil its preferred model in the wake of widespread media speculation it will favour an eight-team competition, featuring the five Kiwi franchises, two or three from Australia and possibly one from the Pacific.

    Such a format would be unpalatable to Rugby Australia, which is reportedly ready to reject any proposal that doesn't feature its five Super Rugby AU teams.

    RA chairman Hamish McLennan told the Sydney Morning Herald the trans-Tasman relationship had devolved to a "master-servant" dynamic which betrayed a rich heritage.

    McLennan said losing Australia's larger population base and economic strength would be body blow to NZ Rugby and that he was prepared to walk away and establish an Australia-only competition.

    There are also strong suggestions RA's offer of pool games to NZ if it wins hosting rights for the 2027 World Cup will be withdrawn if it isn't met halfway.

    McLennan echoed the words of Waratahs coach Rob Penney, a Kiwi, who said on Thursday NZ Rugby would shoot itself in the foot if it didn't open the door to a greater Australian influence.

    NZR Chief executive Mark Robinson wouldn't comment on speculation and said he had yet to hear Australia's preferences.

    Robinson said his board would only see details of the Aratipu review into future competitions for the first time next week.

    There is speculation NZ bosses won't stomach a half-and-half cut of teams because of the perceived weakness of the Australian teams, which would dilute fan engagement.

    McLennan last month admitted Australia lacks NZ's player and team depth.

    However, the Australian cause received a boost from respected Blues assistant coach Tom Coventry, who believed it was important to retain close ties with Australia to help haul up their standards.

    He backed the thoughts of new Wallabies coach Dave Rennie, who believed the Australian national team would improve quickly if its players were exposed to a fully-fledged trans-Tasman competition.

    "He needs to see them in a trans-Tasman series pushing the Kiwi teams. We all want that to happen as well," Coventry said.

    "You watch them play the opening round (of Super Rugby AU) and some good football was being played. There are some good young coaches over there, they're being mentored well, and they're in a state of rebuilding."

    "They just need a good competition to grow that and that's why we'll probably play a big part in helping them grow."

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/spor...otty-stevenson

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  10. #25
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    Regardless of whatever McLennan & RA are hoping for in their pipedreams is irrelevant in the midst of the lack of finances. He who pays the piper calls the tune and RA really don’t seem to be in any position to e demanding what they want..

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    Last edited by valzc; 10-07-20 at 19:19.

  11. #26
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    Neither party can do anything next year without a broadcast deal. NZ had one but that is now probably out the window. Can Sky TV afford to go it alone?

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  12. #27
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    "Stevenson said that a Pacific presence in Super Rugby is "overdue" and with the current global situation, it is the right time to bring a Pacific team into the fold.

    "It's overdue for New Zealand or Australia, to get into the Pacific and say "you're us, this our backyard", because at the moment this is what we've got. New Zealand, the Pacific and potentially Australia in the future is what we've got.

    "There's five Australian clubs who are interested in being a part of that, only room for two"

    Breakfast presenter and die-hard Hurricanes fan, John Campbell, says he is for the idea but noted that a large number of Pacific players are currently competing in northern hemisphere competitions.

    "I'm obsessed with the Pasifika team because I really like the idea but how the hell would it work because there's five or 600 Pasifika players up earning their keep in the northern hemisphere right?"


    Twiggy and his GRR are 2 years ahead of theseKiwi guys, with current GRR teams in Fiji and Samoa.

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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSJ View Post
    Twiggy and his GRR are 2 years ahead of these Kiwi guys, with current GRR teams in Fiji and Samoa.
    Yeah, those relationships/deals must have some bearing moving forward.

    I wonder if the Kiwis want to take these teams over from GRR?


    New Zealand owes Australia nothing: Hansen fires up in Super Rugby debate

    By Tom Decent
    July 12, 2020 — 4.00am

    Former All Blacks coach Steve Hansen has urged New Zealand Rugby to stand up for itself and said the proud nation doesn’t owe Australia anything as debate continues over what form Super Rugby will take next year.

    Hansen, who won a World Cup with the All Blacks in 2015, weighed into discussions about 2021 southern hemisphere rugby in an interview with Stuff in New Zealand.

    Rugby Australia chairman Hamish McLennan made it clear during the week that Australia would not be bullied by its trans-Tasman neighbour on the creation of the next provincial rugby competition.

    Reports during the week revealed a strategic review commissioned by the NZRU suggested a trans-Tasman competition could contain as few as two or three Australian sides, five New Zealand teams and at least one side from the Pacific Islands.

    It sparked talk Australia could go it alone and devise its own domestic competition, but there is an appetite on both sides of the ditch for a trans-Tasman competition.

    “I love New Zealand and its people and we have strong cultural ties and a rich rugby heritage, but it feels a bit master-servant at the moment,” McLennan said.

    We have been looking after the Aussies for years ... And every time we have required something from them, particularly at a high level, sometimes they have gone missing.
    Steve Hansen

    Hansen was equally firm, saying New Zealand should be looking after itself, given that, in his opinion, Australia hadn’t always been the best ally.

    “Without being controversial, we have been looking after the Aussies for years,” Hansen told Stuff. “And every time we have required something from them, particularly at a high level, sometimes they have gone missing.

    “Do we owe them something? No. But because we are the nation we are, and we care about the game more than just ourselves, we bend and buckle a bit. I think New Zealand Rugby are in the mood for having strong discussions … because they only get one shot at it.”

    Hansen mentioned the sour relationship was a byproduct of New Zealand losing co-hosting rights to the 2003 Rugby World Cup, which was eventually held exclusively in Australia.

    There is still lingering bitterness regarding that decision. Even in recent years, tensions between the Wallabies and All Blacks have been high.

    Hansen said whatever competition was created next year needed to be a good breeding ground for Test players.

    “You have got to start with, 'what do you want out of it?' rather than, 'OK, we are going to have this competition',” Hansen said. “It has to be really competitive and produce world-class players. If you allow it to become watered down, there is too big a gap between Super Rugby and Test rugby.

    “You don’t want to be diluting the talent pool. And then you have to ask, ‘Do we want our athletes travelling all around the world as much as they have been?’

    “If the answer is no, you look internally into New Zealand or maybe Australia [for a competition structure] because it’s not far away.

    “What was most important was to ensure Super Rugby was still a tough battleground for young men aiming to play for the All Blacks.”

    Meanwhile, Rugby Australia has ruled out tweaking rules for its revamped Super Rugby AU competition after the Melbourne Rebels and Queensland Reds played out a dull draw in the first experiment with "super time" on Friday night.

    Scores were still locked 18-18 after 10 minutes of extra time. During two five-minute halves, both sides regularly opted to kick the ball away and were desperate to get out of their own end rather than risk conceding a penalty.

    The Reds did win a scrum penalty on the halfway line but Bryce Hegarty missed a tough long-range kick.

    RA is able to change rules if it wants but would need the changes to be signed off by World Rugby, which has encouraged the governing body to keep the same law variations in place for the 12-week competition.

    However, it is understood there will be no tinkering and a review will be held after the season.

    Stopping the clock while the ball is not in play and allowing only tries to break the deadlock are two ideas that were floated in the aftermath of the dour match at Brookvale Oval.

    https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-u...11-p55b5m.html

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    Australia dangles private equity carrot in trans-Tasman squabble

    By Georgina Robinson
    July 12, 2020 — 7.57pm

    Rugby Australia would offer New Zealand a larger share of any private equity investment in a trans-Tasman Super Rugby as chairman Hamish McLennan seeks an end to days of "squabbling" over rugby's moral high ground.

    McLennan did not directly address an accusation from former All Blacks coach Steve Hansen that Australia had a history of letting New Zealand down on rugby matters but invoked the history of the ANZAC union and said the nations were stronger together.

    With a raft of major global private equity houses circling while the two countries haggle over the shape of the game's professional footprint next year, McLennan also said New Zealand's depth and strength would be recognised and rewarded.

    "More teams equal more broadcast dollars, which will lead to private equity investment if that’s the way we decide to go," he said. "I think even if the Kiwis got slightly more of a return out of that investment that would be entirely fair and we both need more investment into our respective unions."

    It was a monetary olive branch to cap a few days of at times spiteful back and forth between the nations as Australia resisted what it believed to be New Zealand attempts to shoehorn it into a bit-part role in Super Rugby's future.

    Sources told the Herald New Zealand Rugby planned to open negotiations with a proposal for just two Australian sides, while leaks from NZR's Aratipu review revealed the Kiwis' preferred model would be an eight-team format, with either two or three Australian teams.

    Both options would be shot down by Rugby Australia which, having welcomed the Andrew Forrest-owned Western Force back into the fold, would face a diabolical decision on which two or three of its five professional sides to axe.

    This runs the risk of turning into a squabble where everyone begins to forget what they were fighting for in the beginning.
    Rugby Australia chairman Hamish McLennan

    RA officials have reached out to their South African and Argentinian counterparts to broach an 'open borders' policy, which could boost the depth of Australian sides and serious international x-factor to the competition.

    "I absolutely acknowledge that we don’t have the Super Rugby depth that New Zealand has at the moment but why wouldn’t we open our teams up to some top-flight players from South Africa, Argentina and even the northern hemisphere to help them out," McLennan said.

    "If you look at the strength of the AFL and NRL they're both entirely local, so if we have to go it alone we will, but that’s not my preferred option."

    The NZR board will discuss the review at a meeting on Thursday, after which meaningful discussions between the two national unions might be expected to get under way.

    Hansen's comments laid bare the attitudes Australian officials will contend with during negotiations. He invoked New Zealand disappointment over losing co-hosting rights to the 2003 World Cup, a turn events that soured trans-Tasman relations for years to come.

    "Without being controversial, we have been looking after the Aussies for years,” the former Test coach said. "And every time we have required something from them, particularly at a high level, sometimes they have gone missing.

    "Do we owe them something? No. But because we are the nation we are, and we care about the game more than just ourselves, we bend and buckle a bit. I think New Zealand Rugby are in the mood for having strong discussions … because they only get one shot at it."

    McLennan moved to ease tensions on Sunday, telling the Herald there was a bigger picture to keep in mind.

    "This runs the risk of turning into a squabble where everyone begins to forget what they were fighting for in the beginning," he said.

    "The bigger picture over time is leveraging an ANZAC bloc with the best professional competition in the world. We also represent two of the most profitable inbound tours to the northern hemisphere based on our collective history. And we’ve collectively won five World Cups and we’ve been in the final another three times. So I’m backing Australia to get rugby right over time."

    https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-u...12-p55bdc.html

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  15. #30
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    Mclennan is starting so sound like previous administrations, spending money he doesn't have yet.

    Moore Park is starting to seep in

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    C'mon the

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