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Thread: Trans-Tasman speculation

  1. #46
    Veteran Sheikh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chopper1 View Post
    MAKE THEM EARN THEIR SPOT IN THE SIDE, IT SHOULDN'T BE A GIMME LIKE IT HAS BEEN..
    I don't think anyone this side of the Nullarbor would disagree with this opinion. In fact, few north of the Hunter Valley would, either.

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  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by SNOB View Post
    Very true. But what’s that saying about giving a chimp a typewriter and eventually he/she will type out a word?
    Ah yes, the infinite monkey theorem.

    The chance of him bashing out a given word - let's say "banana", having just six letters - is around one in seven billion.

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  3. #48
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    Headline is not definitive...

    Super Rugby cull not on the cards, says RA

    By Georgina Robinson
    June 18, 2020 — 8.49am

    Australian rugby officials have moved to calm fears of another Super Rugby cull, saying a speculated merger of the Brumbies and Rebels "is not being discussed".

    The future shape and size of Australia's professional footprint has again come up for debate as Rugby Australia turns its attention to next season and the potential for a trans-Tasman Super Rugby competition.

    Speculation has emerged that New Zealand Rugby is trying to dictate terms on Australia's involvement, leading to rumours RA will be asked to cut a team or merge the Brumbies and Rebels to accommodate the self-funded Western Force.

    A Rugby Australia official issued the following statement on Wednesday night: "The prospect of a merger or cutting a Super Rugby team is not being discussed by Rugby Australia".

    The comments will reassure jittery fans of both teams and the broader Australian rugby community, for whom memories are still fresh of the brutal axing of the Western Force three years ago.

    It does not wholly rule out the prospect however, with discussions between the two national unions yet to really ramp up. RA boss Rob Clarke and chairman Hamish McLennan are expected to have a number of calls with their Kiwi counterparts, Mark Robinson and Brett Impey respectively, over coming weeks.

    Moods were also buoyed on this side of the Tasman by the scheduling of a Friday meeting between the chiefs of the Australian and New Zealand Super Rugby teams. The invitation, issued by the Kiwis, has been interpreted as a sign there is interest from New Zealand in ongoing collaboration.

    New Zealand sources have told the Herald a trans-Tasman competition in 2021 is firmly on the agenda, and talked down fears the Kiwis were trying to strong-arm Australia on the number of teams.

    But the fact remains the shape of Australia's professional game next year will be decided by what monetary value a broadcaster sees in the 2021 competition, given broadcast revenue is traditionally RA's single biggest revenue source.

    If mining magnate Andrew 'Twiggy' Forrest is prepared to fund the Force's ongoing involvement in the competition, that would safeguard a spot for the West Australian side, which has spent the past two years playing in early versions of Forrest's Global Rapid Rugby.

    The fact RA has been able to secure enough broadcast revenue to fund the existing four Super Rugby teams in this year's domestic competition suggests - but does not guarantee - it will be possible again next year.

    Clarke and McLennan will need to agree to a preferred format with New Zealand Rugby, then shop it around to prospective broadcasters, most likely starting with longrunning partner Foxtel.

    If the money on offer is not enough to fund the Waratahs, Reds, Brumbies and Rebels and no private capital can be secured to fill the gap, administrators will have no choice but to put a merger back on the agenda.

    Broadcast dollars have historically been shared between the member nations of the SANZAAR joint venture, meaning Australia and New Zealand were net beneficiaries of South Africa's rich deals with Super Sport over the years, and all nations benefited from strong interest from UK broadcasters.

    In the event of a trans-Tasman competition next year it is not known whether revenue would be pooled or whether Australia and New Zealand would pocket the revenue from their domestic partners and pool any overseas dollars. New Zealand would likely look to protect its multi-year deal with Sky signed last year.

    The entire process is expected to be wrapped up in the next six to eight weeks and promises to add extra edge to Super Rugby AU, which kicks off ominously with the Brumbies hosting the Rebels at GIO Stadium on July 4.

    Brumbies assistant coach Laurie Fisher addressed merger speculation in Canberra on Wednesday.
    Advertisement

    "I wasn't aware it was being raised again," Fisher said.

    "I think we've shown since 1996 the capacity to be very successful standalone rugby team and rugby area. I don't see that changing."

    Georgina Robinson

    https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-u...18-p553qv.html

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  4. #49
    Champion andrewg's Avatar
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    Rob Clarke gives his views to Nick McArdle - 17 June 2020

    Includes feedback about his initial phone call with John Edwards of RugbyWA.


    26 : 30....

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    Last edited by travelling_gerry; 18-06-20 at 17:02.

  5. #50
    Immortal Contributor shasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewg View Post

    Includes feedback about his initial phone call with John Edwards of RugbyWA.
    Which was pretty much

    "sorry I had to knife you in the back but we really needed to support the Rabble for various reasons, one being that I was going to be employed by them. Now just turn around and I'll pull it out for you......... Over it? Good now about that billionaire you have over there......."
    If mining magnate Andrew 'Twiggy' Forrest is prepared to fund the Force's ongoing involvement in the competition, that would safeguard a spot for the West Australian side, which has spent the past two years playing in early versions of Forrest's Global Rapid Rugby.

    Given that GeeRob is pretty much "outed" by some influential Rugby people in Sydney radio as a tame RA spin conduit, that seems likely to be the proposal they are thinking of. It's repeated almost daily in the Eastern states media.

    What kind of business man would invest in a dubious venture where he could see his investment trashed again by the arse clowns at Moore Park at the first sign of difficulty? Not one as canny as Andrew Forrest I'd think. He only ever offered to "underwrite" the Force in Super Rugby.

    Were I in his shoes, that would be the limit of financial commitment to SR post-covid. Otherwise same licence fees, revenue carve-up and player contracting as all the rest.......Actually the more of this I read, the more I feel like we should just tell them to FRO.

    P.S. Couldnt stomach listening to Clarke's spin for the whole podcast. Just skimmed thru to the part where he talked about phoning John Edwards as his first act on his first day as CEO. Wonder why he thought that was first priority?

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    Last edited by shasta; 18-06-20 at 11:59.
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  6. #51
    Veteran valzc's Avatar
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    A Rugby Australia official issued the following statement on Wednesday night: "The prospect of a merger or cutting a Super Rugby team is not being discussed by Rugby Australia".

    Meaning......so long as Clarke has his arse stuck in Moore Park, there's zero chance of Rebels being targeted, despite that fact of whether they should be there is irrelevant to him.

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  7. #52
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    Get up to speed and give rugby in Australia a kiss of life

    Alan Jones
    9:29 PM June 18, 2020

    A strange week in the world of rugby, which struggles for a headline.

    It is commendable that we are proposing to bid for the World Cup; but 2027 seems a long way away in the light of our immediate challenges.

    I am delighted that the trans-Tasman rugby concept, which I argued for in this column months ago, may have some legs. This week, a study by Otago University has supported trans-Tasman travel without the need for a two-week quarantine process. The big question is, who plays?

    The Kiwis are very happy to be playing their Super Rugby Aotearoa competition over the next 10 weeks. As I said last week, we don’t kick off until next month. Could the two competitions be combined?

    Our enduring problem is, we don’t have a lot to offer in the competitive world of the modern game. It’s not so long ago that Australian Super Rugby teams lost 40 consecutive games to New Zealand teams from 2016 to 2018.

    It is a big ask to convince a New Zealand rugby public, which senses Australian rugby weakness, that Australian rugby can make the turnstiles turn. But if I was asked for a Wallaby initiative to kickstart our game at the highest level, why not a Wallaby tour of New Zealand later in the year, the old fashioned tour, like we did in 1986. Midweek and weekend matches to feed a starved rugby public.

    But again, the question arises. Would the Kiwis and the broadcasters trust that the Wallabies, under new management, could do better this year than they did last year? Who will want us if the thought is that we can’t put up a fight, even against tough provincial opposition?

    There is a simple message here. The Kiwi teams always guarantee quality. What can we guarantee? A lot of talk, foreign coaches and a disillusioned public. It’s a hard road ahead. I have tried, for months, to indicate how we could best navigate that road.

    Recent weekends of rugby league and rugby union have provided further insights. You may remember the 1986 smash-hit movie Top Gun, where Tom Cruise plays the hot-shot fighter pilot Pete “Maverick” Mitchell. In a memorable scene where he and his wingman “Goose” are walking on the tarmac towards their fighter jet, Maverick says “I feel the need, the need for speed”.

    These sentiments pretty much sum up my feelings, having watched all the rounds of the NRL and the Super Rugby Aotearoa last weekend. Never before has the need for speed been higher on the rugby viewer’s want list.

    The NRL has not only gone back on air first; they have tweaked their laws to make their game lightning fast. It is highly watchable rugby league, played at breathtaking speed. The public love it.

    In contrast, Super Rugby Aotearoa launched last weekend and the referees dished up more than 60 penalties in two games. The contrast between the codes is huge. Early statistics on the new NRL game have the “ball in play time” at around 60 minutes, compared to Super Rugby where the “ball in play time” is around 35 minutes.

    Peter V’landys has shown outstanding judgment and leadership. By introducing the six-again tackle restart, he has eliminated half the penalties and stoppage time in rugby league.

    In a bid to make Super Rugby more viewer-friendly, Scott Johnson seems to have decided to do something to justify his massive salary. He has come up with seven new laws which are essentially “ripped off” from the NRL. The changes include “Super Time”, which is extra time when games are drawn at full-time.

    I’ve never understood why, when full-time arrives in a rugby match, it is not the end of the game. The ball must be dead before the whistle is blown. When 80 minutes is up, the game should stop. That happens in rugby league.

    Nonetheless, the notion of “extra time” has merit. Goal line dropouts are to replace some 22m restarts. And there is even a “40/20” rule, ripped off, called “22/50”.

    Pleasingly, Johnson stopped short of reducing the playing numbers to 13 a side, just in case rugby fans thought Super Rugby, Australian style, was copying the NRL.

    Another Johnson, Clarence Leonard “Kelly” Johnson, was one of America’s most talented and prolific aeronautical engineers. He designed and built jet fighters, much like the planes Tom Cruise’s character, Maverick, flew. Kelly Johnson was the man who coined the phrase “Keep it simple, stupid”. He was known as an organising genius, and his KISS philosophy has become a guiding force for leaders in all fields of endeavour.

    For all his imitation of rugby league reform, Johnson, having brazenly ripped off NRL ideas, has completely overlooked the two main time wasters in rugby union, the scrum and penalty goals. Scrums chew up around 15 minutes a game; and more than 10 minutes are wasted setting up for penalty goals.

    Let me deal with this in a later piece of writing. But as a start, eliminate scrum penalties in favour of free kicks, where teams must tap-and-go.

    But before even that, the first thing we need to do is extend the game to 90 minutes. This will give broadcasters and fans more bang for their buck; and with the ridiculous levels of interchange now in the game, independently of whether a player is injured or not, perhaps the players might also like to do more to earn their keep.

    Forget all the other fancy stuff stolen from the NRL. Keep it simple, stupid. Two simple ways of keeping it simple are to extend the game time and reduce the painful incidence of scrum penalties. We don’t need to make seven changes to the laws.

    But why does Johnson have this authority? Johnson is not the Wallaby coach; he is not adding value anywhere else. So how long can he escape the chop in any restructure?

    Hopefully, Hamish McLennan will keep it simple. Forget 2027, Hamish. The rugby patient needs immediate medication.

    Alan Jones

    https://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...pcauwAn39s-12b

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  8. #53
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    Filipo Daugunu turns down Japanese millions to stay with Reds

    WAYNE SMITH
    SENIOR SPORT WRITER
    9:35 PM JUNE 18, 2020

    Queensland winger Filipo Daugunu has knocked back a deal worth nearly $2m over three years with a Japanese Top League club to remain with the Reds as he closes in on his first Wallabies jersey.

    His decision is in marked contrast to the one taken by three of his Reds teammates — Izack Rodda, Harry Hockings and Isaac Lucas — last month to head overseas rather than accept the average 60 per cent wage cut negotiated by Rugby Australia with the Rugby Union Players Association to the end of September.

    Rodda was already a first-choice Wallaby, while Hockings and Lucas appear to have sacrificed — at least for the moment — any thoughts they might have had of playing for Australia.

    Sources suggest Rodda this week signed with French Top 14 side Lyon on a one-year deal for reportedly less money — about $20,000 a month — than he was receiving in Australia as the best-paid player at the Reds. Not only will the deal preclude him from returning in time to play in Australia next year but seemingly it makes little sense, as he was one of a half-dozen players granted an overseas sabbatical by RA as a way of recouping any losses resulting from the wage cut.

    Daugunu signed a deal with the Reds in December to extend his contract by four years, taking him through to the next World Cup in France in 2023. But that deal, like every other player contract in Australian rugby, is vulnerable to a legal challenge if the circumstances change post-COVID-19. Still, it is a heartening vote of confidence in Australian rugby that Daugunu, a former Fiji youth soccer goalkeeper, chose to stay with the Reds.

    With the Reds allowing winger Henry Speight to go to Biarritz on a three-year deal, Daugunu, 24, certainly now figures in the top rung of contenders for the Wallabies wing positions.

    John Eales medallist Marika Koroibete looms as a certainty, with fellow Melbourne outside backs Reece Hodge and Dane Haylett-Petty both strongly in consideration. Impending cross-code buy Suliasi Vunivalu, currently with Melbourne Storm but soon to switch to the Reds once his NRL commitments have reached an end, is also in the frame, judging by the fact he was telephoned on the weekend by Wallabies coach Dave Rennie.

    Meanwhile, hopes of a Zoom conference between New Zealand and Australian Super Rugby chief executives on Friday have been dashed, seemingly after news of the planned hook-up was made public in Australia. Whether New Zealand Rugby intervened is yet to be ascertained, but indications are that any discussions of a trans-Tasman competition next season will take place at the national body level.

    While the NZ officials might feel miffed that their Australian colleagues might not all have stayed silent about their approach, there is no disguising the fact there is an appetite on both sides of the ditch for such a trans-Tasman series.

    Although New Zealand has seemingly ruled out any thought of pushing for a sixth Super Rugby franchise, it may well be that if Australia is queried by the Kiwis about its ability to have the depth to sustain five teams next year, it can suggest that NZ send any of its surplus Super Rugby players to Australia to supplement the Australian sides.

    As the Western Force demonstrated by recruiting Wallabies Greg Holmes and Kyle Godwin, and quality journeymen Jono Lance and Ollie Atkins, four quality additions to a squad can turn a solid outfit into a highly competitive one. The same logic would surely apply if NZ eased its selection laws by announcing that any Kiwis who joined an Australian franchise would still be eligible for All Black selection.

    Steve Tew always opposed such a relaxation but he is no longer running New Zealand Rugby, and in this post-COVID world, where seemingly anything is possible, it hardly seems to be stretching the boundaries to select All Blacks from the same competition where they are already chosen from.

    With RA having set down July 3 as the start date for Super Rugby AU, focus now has shifted from when the rebooted competition will get under way to how many people will be able to watch it live. The Queensland government is putting a cap on crowds of 2000 for NRL and AFL matches in Brisbane on the weekend. But if there is no surge in coronavirus cases, there may well be a further expansion by June 27-28. And then, by July 3, the Reds could possibly have a crowd of up to 10,000 for their opening clash with the Waratahs.

    Wayne Smith Senior Sport Writer

    https://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...3f371822ddfb83

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    Last edited by Ham105; 19-06-20 at 05:54.

  9. #54
    Champion andrewg's Avatar
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    Interview with Phil Parsons - Chairman of Sydney RU and President of Warringah RU Club on 19 June 2020

    Do you think Phil even knows where Perth is??


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    Last edited by andrewg; 21-06-20 at 18:53.

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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewg View Post
    Interview with Phil Parsons - Chairman of Sydney RU and President of Warringah RU Club on 19 June 2020

    Do you think Phil even knows where Perth is??

    "Perth, of course I know that it is a town in Scotland" - answers Phil

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  11. #56
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    Gee that first minute try from the Saders was pretty awesome to watch. Can’t imagine what a jump the kiwis will have on us this year when the cup is up for grabs.

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    Generally speaking you aren’t learning much if your lips are moving!!!

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewg View Post
    Do you think Phil even knows where Perth is??
    Probably not, but was more irritated to hear him blather about making the SS semi-professional. They clearly haven't given it a moments thought, but what did they think the NRC was leading toward if it wasn't having professional players running around in club rugby? Morons.

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    Immortal Contributor shasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyS View Post
    Probably not, but was more irritated to hear him blather about making the SS semi-professional. They clearly haven't given it a moments thought, but what did they think the NRC was leading toward if it wasn't having professional players running around in club rugby? Morons.
    To be fair the interview was about the expansion of the SRU. Much as we've been inclined to slag off the Shite Shield, it has become more popular than ever because of the antagonism towards the ARU and SANZAAR. Not so long ago that mob lumped us in with the Rabble as a waste of funding needed for root to tip game development. Like it or not the NRC did not appeal to the tribalism that is club Rugby in the East even though it was doing it's job. The view of WA by a lot of that mob has changed since then and people like Hodgo and AF see the way forward is more likely about working inside that tent. I don't know what it will look like, but I have a strong feeling that it might look more towards GRR than an unsustainable (not so) Super Rugby. I hope so anyway.

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    Good old Mark Ella. Only read if bored.

    A Rebels-Force merger the better option to help get Kiwis on board

    MARK ELLA
    9:31 PM JUNE 19, 2020

    Australian rugby officials are desperately hoping the creation of a trans-Tasman bubble will enable a 10-team Super Rugby competition to be formed next year, with five teams each from Australia and New Zealand.

    Following the spectacular success of the opening round of Super Rugby Aotearoa last weekend, Australian administrators seemed pleasantly surprised, perhaps even relieved, when their Kiwi counterparts contacted them this week to arrange talks for a future competition. But Australians should not get too excited yet.

    My understanding is that while the five Kiwi Super Rugby franchises are keen, the NZRU, which controls the show over the ditch, is lukewarm about the idea. Which may be why the talks were scuppered when it became public knowledge

    There are commercial opportunities for New Zealand’s Super Rugby teams in “Aussie”, as they say but the NZRU’s main objective is to prepare Kiwi players for Test rugby and that means playing high quality opposition at the provincial level.

    Unlike Australia, New Zealand has the option of adding teams from its Mitre 10 National Provincial Championship such as Tasman and Southland to create an expanded domestic Super Rugby competition.

    While there is no doubt New Zealand would be capable of supplying five competitive teams, the Kiwis have fielded the same five Super Rugby teams since 1996 and they have all won the title. There are question marks over Australia’s capacity to field even four decent sides.

    When Super Rugby was suspended earlier this year because of the coronavirus pandemic, the only Australian team that looked competitive were the Brumbies.

    Obviously, Australia would need to supply more than one team to a 10-team competition but how many could we realistically offer to a trans-Tasman format?

    In 2017 Rugby Australia cut the Western Force from Super Rugby when SANZAAR reduced the competition from 18 to 15 teams.

    The argument was Australian rugby could not afford to carry five Super Rugby teams financially or player-wise.

    If we could not afford five then, how could we possibly afford five now when revenue streams have been hammered and more leading players are expected to head overseas. We need teams that will be competitive with sides across the Tasman, not just each other.

    In a way Australian rugby has been presented with a blank canvas. How do we fill it in?

    NSW and Queensland, the heartland states, would have to be there. Between them, those two traditional unions produce the vast majority of professional Australian rugby players.

    Of course, the Brumbies have been fabulously successful on the field with cast-offs from NSW and Queensland over the years but if we had our time again, would we really include a team from Canberra in Super Rugby?

    If you were starting from scratch, the Brumbies probably would not be there, but we are not starting from scratch. The Brumbies have developed a very valuable brand and intellectual property that Australian rugby cannot afford to lose.

    It has been suggested the Brumbies should merge with Melbourne Rebels. A marriage between the Brumbies’ successful rugby culture and Melbourne’s almost five million population and corporate clout would seem to be made in rugby heaven but I am concerned a merger would diminish the Brumbies’ brand.

    If there has to be a merger, I would lean towards the two expansion franchises, the Rebels and the Force. As individual entities the Force and the Rebels never reached any great heights. A merger between any Australian teams would leave us with four sides but I have heard a whisper Fiji may become the 10th side in a trans-Tasman competition.

    All this talk of mergers may be premature. During the week Rugby Australia stated it had no plans to merge the Brumbies and the Rebels.

    It would be a lot easier to sell a trans-Tasman competition to the New Zealanders with four competitive Australian teams rather than spreading our talent too thinly over five franchises. Whether Australia fields four or five Super Rugby teams next year it does not want to just make up the numbers but to make a difference.

    https://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...62bb70ca1d56e3

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  15. #60
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    Phil Parsons knows Perth and Perth rugby, all right.

    He played first grade second row for Palmyra in the eighties for a number of years, and would understand the goings on too well.

    A hard man who took no bullshit and wasn't adverse to a bit of biff if the circumstances required it.

    Say hello to him for me, if you cross his path.

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