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Thread: Trans-Tasman speculation

  1. #16
    Champion andrewg's Avatar
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    Andy Allen posted this on the Sea of Blue Facebook page yesterday.

    "Article in today's Herald suggesting Force and one Pacific Islands team may be invited to join the NZ 2021 competition. "

    Has anyone been able to access this article??

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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewg View Post
    Andy Allen posted this on the Sea of Blue Facebook page yesterday.

    "Article in today's Herald suggesting Force and one Pacific Islands team may be invited to join the NZ 2021 competition. "

    Has anyone been able to access this article??
    Read the 2nd post of this thread.

    In fact, read the first four posts + rest of the thread.

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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by shasta View Post
    Looks like the Aucklanders are having a ",sometimes you dunno what you've got till its gone" day at Eden Park. Looks close to 50000 capacity. Keep half that up and they will have the bucks to go it alone.

    Great game so far too.
    I enjoyed watching the Blues win over the Hurricanes...

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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ham105 View Post
    Read the 2nd post of this thread.

    In fact, read the first four posts + rest of the thread.
    Thanks, but I got the impression that it was something completely different from what the Sydney articles were talking about.

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  5. #20
    Immortal Contributor shasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chopper1 View Post
    I enjoyed watching the Blues win over the Hurricanes...
    Yep. Looked like the assistant coach - Tana Umago- was acting as a runner. Bit unusual?

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  6. #21
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    My thought, too.

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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by shasta View Post
    Yep. Looked like the assistant coach - Tana Umago- was acting as a runner. Bit unusual?
    Not really it is not uncommon for a team to have an assistant coach down on the sideline with the players.

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    Australian rugby again seeking the least-worst optionWAYNE SMITH
    Follow @WayneKeithSmith

    A new era begins as Hamish McLennan takes over as chairman of Rugby Australia.
    A new era begins as Hamish McLennan takes over as chairman of Rugby Australia.
    10:01PM JUNE 14, 202031 COMMENTS
    Today begins a new era in the history of Australian rugby with the installation of Hamish McLennan as chairman of the national body. Yet amid all the wellwishing and congratulations, there is the realisation that the game is not yet out of the woods, not even close.

    McLennan admitted on Friday that the single most urgent issue that Rugby Australia faces is to get next season organised so that it has something real to lay before potential broadcasters. All of us nodded in agreement, but few chose to look deeper, perhaps because we all suspected that the devil really is in the detail.

    Super Rugby returns! Watch every game of Super Rugby Aotearoa and Super Rugby AU Live & On-Demand on Kayo. New to Kayo? Get your 14-day free trial & start streaming instantly

    READ NEXT

    MEDIA DIARY
    Karl Stefanovic in $2.5m pay circus
    NICK TABAKOFF
    On Saturday, I was taken to task by a reader for writing a “bullshit article” about getting rid of the Brumbies while retaining, in the words of the tweet, the NSW Waratahs, who were comfortably beaten by the Brumbies in the last match before the COVID-19 shutdown.

    In fact, dear sir, what I had suggested was a merger between the Brumbies and the Melbourne Rebels, a stance I have consistently maintained since the Western Force were in the act of being culled back in 2017. Already some people are circulating a name for the joint venture — the Southern Brumbies. But I accept the general drift of the tweet and I genuinely wish it was bullshit. I’m truly afraid it’s not.

    Everyone wants a trans-Tasman competition next year. Everyone on this side of the Tasman. The Kiwis are less than convinced. While not wanting Twitter to set the agenda, there was another observation on Sunday: “New Zealand Rugby will be doing the rugby public a disservice if they don’t stick with an all-Kiwi competition. Ditch the Mitre 10 Cup, add three more teams to Super Rugby Aotearoa and away we go. Can’t remember the last time the country was this hyped on a pro rugby competition.”

    READ MOREpeight to join French club Biarritz|Packed house for Barrett’s Blues debut|Merger a reality for new rugby era|Forget doom and gloom, Thorn sees bright future|Why Australia needs New Zealand rugby way more than the Kiwis need us
    It’s unlikely that hype will be maintained. The NRL opened to record viewer numbers but quickly fell away. And what are the odds of it ever being repeated that a player would step up and kick the winning field goal to snatch victory away from his dad’s team, as Bryn Gatland did to Warren Gatland in Dunedin on Saturday?

    As popular as that standpoint is in New Zealand, indications are that NZR does not share it — at least not in its entirety. As Greg Harris, the former Waratahs and RUPA boss pointed out in the Sydney Morning Herald on the weekend, New Zealanders will think of themselves first and of Australia a distant last. But even their self-interest could work in Australia’s favour. Increasingly in this partially post-COVID world, they need the opposition that Australia provide. They might wish that the Springboks were on their doorstep, but the reality is that there is a small sea and a sizeable ocean to cross before they reach South Africa, not to mention a continent-wide land mass. .

    It would be nice to think that, in the spirit of Anzac, the Kiwis would help out a neighbour in need but perhaps that is being too noble-minded. It is enough that New Zealand need us just a little, even if we need them a lot.

    Now that McLennan has nailed his colours to the mast and will be attempting to lock in a competition for 2021 and beyond, some vital talks will be taking place with New Zealand officials, if indeed they haven’t been held already. And the Kiwis will tell us that, in their opinion, we cannot sustain five teams against them and should cut down to three.

    With luck, McLennan will get them to compromise on four but the catch is that one of them will have to be the Western Force. This is Andrew Forrest’s moment. Australian rugby is cash-strapped and if it can pass on the expense of running a Super Rugby franchise to a private entrepreneur, then the Perth club will surely be welcomed back with open arms. No doubt on the West Australian side there will be lots of gritted teeth but, as appallingly as they were treated in the past, they also want to be part of the main event. Global Rapid Rugby can continue throughout Asia, one presumes, but the primary focus must be on Super Rugby, or whatever it evolves into.

    So that leaves the Waratahs, Reds, Brumbies and Rebels to fit into three openings. It’s not fair, but there it is. NSW and Queensland both have had appalling records in recent years, but they are the two states that provide 80 per cent of Australia’s professional players. Besides, it’s unthinkable not to have rugby franchises in the country’s two rugby strongholds.

    The Reds look to be the coming Australian team and while the rest of the country might feel this is NSW’s punishment for treating Australian rugby as its plaything with its Sydney-centric attitude, common sense must prevail.

    And so, by process of elimination, we arrive at the Brumbies and the Rebels. The first has the best rugby program in the country, bar none, the latter resides in the most sports-mad capital in the world and it would be crazy for Australia to surrender its toehold there.

    So the choice is either to merge and split the home games between Melbourne and Canberra, or to ditch one club entirely. There is no other solution … unless …

    Unless Australia tells the Kiwis to mind their own business. If they won’t accept us on our terms, then they can Aotearoa themselves to their heart’s content and we’ll see them for the Bledisloes.

    Australia no doubt would be feeling virtuous, asserting its independence like that, but there would be consequences. For starters, an all-Australian competition, or even one supplemented by Japan and perhaps Fiji, would hold limited appeal to broadcasters. Or none. Either way, the broadcast money would dry up, which would lead to a mass exodus of Australian players to Europe and Japan and the USA.

    Australian rugby has time travelled back to 2017 and again we are looking for least-worst solutions. Even a private equity solution only “solves” the money problem. The problem of whether Australia has the depth to sustain five professional sides would still remain.

    Sadly, these are the only options I can think of. But no doubt there are brighter minds than mine out there giving this some serious thought.

    Please, get your ideas in. But get them in quickly. Until this is resolved, nothing in Australian rugby is certain. And when there is no certainty, that’s when dumb decisions are made.

    WAYNE SMITHSENIOR SPORT WRITER

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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne (the wanker) Smith View Post
    one of them will have to be the Western Force. This is Andrew Forrest’s moment. Australian rugby is cash-strapped and if it can pass on the expense of running a Super Rugby franchise to a private entrepreneur, then the Perth club will surely be welcomed back with open arms. No doubt on the West Australian side there will be lots of gritted teeth
    At risk of being called a broken record, what possible benefit would Andrew Forrest see in this alliance? He's already funding the Force and I would assume that Rugby Australia wouldn't just gift him the license for nothing (he'll probably be forced to pay several million times the demonstrated value of the Rebels' licence to buy that!) he would be jumping into bed with a knot of vipers, he would be responsible for the continuation of the competition that has killed rugby in this country and he would be empowering the dictatorship that is looking after nothing other than the status quo and their own bank balance. It looks like a fool's purchase to me!

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  10. #25
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    I can't see how there would be any value to Forrest in picking up all the expense of a SR team. I could see some if he were prepared to underwrite it however, in conjunction with the GRR team.

    It seems increasingly likely that RA will pull the plug on the NRC, so having two teams would only really be a continuation of what WA has now (albeit they would perhaps run in parallel). For the immediate future though, truth is that GRR is closer to NRC level and will remain so until the other locations develop the interest, generate cash flow and invest in/develop players. That will hopefully come in time, perhaps even quickly, but at the moment I still worry that a Force dominance could leave the competition stillborn. For mine it really needs another strong presence like Japan to ensure long term viability. But it's a work in progress, certainly what I'd hope they would opt for if they had to choose, but it would also be great to have a two stringed bow.

    Have to admit though, I smiled at the supposition in the Smith article. Puts a lot of faith in four teams, but the implications if NZ were adamant about three are amusing to say the least.

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    Last edited by AndyS; 15-06-20 at 13:59.

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    Preach Andy!

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  12. #27
    Immortal Contributor shasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyS View Post

    Have to admit though, I smiled at the supposition in the Smith article.
    Doesn't make me smile Andy. Puke would be closer to the mark, especially how many of those tossers are happy to take it is given that AF will just pick up the tab. Without joining them, if it were me, I'd only be going past 2020 if ALL franchises were given an equal TV carve-up, with ability to get TPAs, sponsorships or private funding however they can. That was supposedly the Rabble "private equity" model. Wallabies on match payments and win bonuses only. Anything else will simply end up same old, same old. Otherwise full steam ahead with GRR

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  13. #28
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    I was thinking more the assumption that RA could somehow talk NZ into four teams (even though that is what they have now and suck), and that the Force would be one. I was picturing what would happen if they stood firm on three...would both the Brumbies and Rebels get a bullet in the brain pan? What if KKR or whoever the Rebels have already been talking to said they would do a Twiggy for the Rebels...do RA have to pick just one of the remaining three teams?

    In practice though, I can't see anything but an equal shares system flying, and if it was that I think RA would decide not to bother with WA again. But I suppose one interesting possibility might be three SR teams, one of which is a combined WA/ACT/Vic side, with each also having a GRR team.

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  14. #29
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    We dont need anymore axing of rugby teams in Australia. If there is to be a Trans-Tasman comp, then it must be with all 5 Aussies teamms or none in my view. We need to rebuild the game, not go through another 3 years of internal anguish, by merging or axing reams.

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    Kiwis offer hope for five Super Rugby teams

    WAYNE SMITH
    SENIOR SPORT WRITER
    9:11PM JUNE 16, 2020

    In the most positive sign yet that Australian rugby can proceed without mergers or closures, the New Zealand Super Rugby chief executives have reached out to their Australian counterparts to join them in a Zoom conference on Friday to discuss the possible shape of next season and beyond.

    Each of the five NZ Super Rugby bosses telephoned their Australian equivalent on Monday to invite them to participate in what was the clearest indicator to date that the Kiwis envisage a joint future. It is early days yet but the invites to Paul Doorn (Waratahs), David Hanham (Queensland Reds), Phil Thomson (Brumbies) and Baden Stephenson (Melbourne Rebels) certainly indicate that a trans-Tasman competition is regarded as – at the very least – a distinct possibility on the other side of the ditch.

    Mark Evans, the Western Force CEO who is currently “stranded” in England after returning to visit his family at the start of the coronavirus crisis, told The Australian that he had been alerted to the meeting but had not yet been formally contacted.

    The Australian chief executives should be up to speed given that they are holding a two-hour electronic meeting with Rugby Australia on Thursday. “One, we’ll get updated about what happened at the board meeting on Monday (Hamish McLennan’s first meeting as RA chairman) and, two, we’ll start digesting what are some of the options for 2021. We are all anxious,” one Super Rugby CEO explained.

    All indications are that New Zealand may be open to a nine or 10-team competition. Nine presumably would mean the existing Super Rugby franchises on both sides of the Tasman although there has been talk that New Zealand Rugby chairman Brent Impey was lobbying strongly for a sixth NZ team in addition to the Crusaders, Blues, Chiefs, Highlanders and Hurricanes. However, the belief now is that the Kiwis realise they have pretty much reached saturation point with five franchises.

    In that event, it would seem that the Western Force, which was culled from Super Rugby in 2017 by the then Australian Rugby Union, could rejoin the fray next year.

    The Perth-based side, now owned by WA mining billionaire Andrew Forrest, was primarily cut from the competition for financial reasons but there were also concerns expressed within SANZAAR that Australia had lost its competitive edge attempting to maintain five sides.

    It was during this period that Australian teams collectively lost 40 matches in succession to New Zealand opposition, a trend that has been largely halted since RA has fielded only four sides.

    The other complication is whether the global season goes ahead as tentatively planned. Only if it proceeds would Super Rugby – or whatever the competition evolves into – have sufficient time to budget for a home-and-away trans-Tasman competition plus finals.

    Ominously, a meeting of stakeholders late on Monday night (Australian time) struck a major obstacle when European clubs attempted to derail the planned global calendar.

    That leaves World Rugby with considerable work to do before the planned vote on the global calendar on June 30 and it is to be hoped the international body is able to display more political savvy than it displayed when it watched on impotently as the Six Nations shot down the Nations Championship last year.

    Stephenson, however, admitted he felt greatly heartened by the phone call from a NZ colleague.

    “I thought it was a great initiative and we can see what we can learn from each other, about what they did last weekend (when NZ became the first country in the world to play post-COVID-19 matches) and what their thinking is,” he said.

    “I got off the phone quite enthused that they want us in, we want to be in it. There is a lot at stake for all of us and we all need to know pretty quickly.”

    Yet even if New Zealand is prepared to give Rugby Australia the green light to field five teams next season, there still remains the formidable obstacle of whether Fox, or any other potential broadcaster, will be prepared to offer enough money to enable RA to mount such a campaign.

    Even if the Force are self-sustaining the broadcast deal might not be enough.

    The fear is that Australia may be forced to merge the Rebels with the Brumbies, an option that both clubs loathe.

    WAYNE SMITH SENIOR SPORT WRITER

    https://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...ff1fbf223b2d02

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