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Thread: Trans-Tasman speculation

  1. #151
    Veteran Sheikh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SNOB View Post
    As for some of our young guy’s losing out on their dreams of playing for the Force at a top level I disagree. If they are half as good as we like to think they will find places on the benches of other teams, maybe not all in Aus, to learn their trade and then hopefully we can get them back to fulfill those dreams.
    The problem with this, Snob, is that where are the other SR teams going to see how good our potential bench-filling young guys are? If they're only in the Force academy and there's no NRC or GRR they won't get seen to be picked up. The East Coast sides won't come over here on scouting trips, and even if they do, why pay for a young WA guy to move east if there's someone else in the SS who's almost as good and cheaper to hire?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheikh View Post
    The problem with this, Snob, is that where are the other SR teams going to see how good our potential bench-filling young guys are? If they're only in the Force academy and there's no NRC or GRR they won't get seen to be picked up. The East Coast sides won't come over here on scouting trips, and even if they do, why pay for a young WA guy to move east if there's someone else in the SS who's almost as good and cheaper to hire?
    so much the better, we get to pick the cream of the WA talent all the while knowing exactly how they compare. If ES scouts don't do their due diligence we will be better off.

    It will still equate to more WA guys gaining Super Rugby contracts than RA would like, the remainder will either have to compete better or go overseas for development. That might sound harsh, but I'm not a fan of mediocre WA boys getting a ridiculously infleated contract that is undeserved, that's the Waratahs territory and we should leave them to it.

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  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by SNOB View Post
    One other thing is that GRR may not be dead and buried at all. It may become our breeding ground and we will have players in the GRR playing their socks off to get into the SR team. It would be a shame to totally abandon it after all the hard work that’s been put into it by Hodgo and team.
    The key will be keeping the pathway clear and open for local players. Which the Force have done and will continue to do. As for GRR. If that continues there's no reason why that squad couldn't be 100% local. As a proving ground.

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  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by SNOB View Post
    One other thing is that GRR may not be dead and buried at all. It may become our breeding ground and we will have players in the GRR playing their socks off to get into the SR team. It would be a shame to totally abandon it after all the hard work that’s been put into it by Hodgo and team.
    Remember Twiggy is apparently supporting a bid from GRR side Bay of Plenty (Shanghai) and possibly also Kong Kong into the Kiwi 2021 Super comp. And the Kiwis have consistently said they want a Pacific islands side in their comp. That takes care of GRR sides Fiji and Samoa.
    Who knows what is going on in discussions between Kiwis, RA and GRR/Twiggy at the moment?

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  5. #155
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    I agree SNOB, and I don't think Twiggy is going to let it die either, primarily because
    (a) I doubt very much he will 'do an ARU' on those unions which have invested heavily in it
    (b) He sees it as a long play, where the positives of GRR in the long term will be of value to the Force and rugby as a whole.
    (c) It will be great for his business(s)

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    That is kind of what I am hoping. With RA looking like they're going to walk away from any sort of development tier, GRR in some respects could be the most important element for WA. As demonstrated by long experience, SR is not a great place to develop players because of the huge step up from amateur. If WA wants to feed players into that top level, they need somewhere to develop professionally and to find out what that means. From an Australian point of view that might better be an NRC, but if that isn't going to happen it still needs to be somewhere. For WA, GRR would be ideal (and even an attractive option for young players).

    For mine too, while involving Japan keeps getting bandied about by SANZAR, the idea that their teams will be competitive with the top teams from SR in some sort of Super 8 is just not realistic. The Cherry Blossoms benefitted far more from their wolf pack playing the likes of the Force and Highlanders A, than they did by the Sunwolves getting flogged around SR. I think they might well be better served and more interested in a full participation stake in GRR if they want engagement with the SH countries. Maybe not forever, but even then GRR might just evolve into part their development structure too.

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  7. #157
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    Yeah, I still wonder about the idea of GRR being combined/associated with the new Japan competition, like it could be the "overseas" conference with the Force, Pacific and other Asian teams involved. Either that, or the Force itself along with the more sustainable GRR franchises being in the Japanese competition. I think a WA only or Fiji Latui/Drua could be competitive with Top League quality sides and bring something to the comp

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    I thought there was some merit to the idea the JFRU floated for involvement with the SH. Much of the attraction to GRR was the development of the game in Asia, but I'm not sure Japan has any real interest in that. My ideal in a GRR style comp would have been 3-4 Japanese teams, but their idea of the Top League winner and a Wolfpack style rep team of Japanese players would do pretty well too. It might be quite a neat compromise between the clubs and the governing body.

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    Private equity giants CVC Capital and Silver Lake appear to be on a collision course for a share of the trans-Tasman rugby competition which now seems certain to go ahead with five teams apiece from Australia and New Zealand, but not until 2022.

    All indications are that New Zealand Rugby has swallowed its reservations about the lack of depth across the five Australian Super Rugby franchises and is expected to sign on for a 12-team competition model, with Japan and a Pasifika team also coming in to round off the package. But because of continuing uncertainty around COVID-19 and the fact Australia and NZ are both are having to make regular adjustments to their biosecurity precautions, the trans-Tasman model is not to be introduced until the 2022 season.

    Both countries are likely to continue next year with their purely domestic models that were used this year, New Zealand playing a second season of Super Rugby Aotearoa and Australia continuing with the Super Rugby AU competition that will reach its peak with the September 19 grand final in Canberra.


    There already has been considerable speculation that if another season of Super Rugby AU is played, a sixth team, the Sunwolves of Japan, might be brought in for added variety.

    In that event, it would also make sense for a Pasifika side to join the New Zealand competition next year to ensure that all 12 teams would be fully up to speed by the time the 2022 season arrives. But for that to happen, World Rugby would need to stop making pious statements about the need to give Pacific Island rugby a helping hand and actually come through with sufficient funds to get a team up and running.

    The deadline for expressions of interest in the NZ model closed at the end of August and while Australia showed no interest in any competition which did not involve all five Australian teams, behind the scenes negotiations look to have achieved a breakthrough. Certainly relations between Rugby Australia chairman Hamish McLennan and interim CEO Rob Clarke and their NZ Rugby counterparts, Brent Impey and Mark Robinson, appear to have defrosted considerably since the early days of trans-Tasman negotiations.

    READ MORE:Vunivalu committed to Reds shift|
    Now a second deadline is about to come into play. Friday, September 4, was the date set by Rugby Australia for expressions of interest in the broadcast package it has taken to the open market.

    “That’s the deadline and then I anticipate we would be entering into a period of negotiation and we’ll see how that plays out,” Clarke told The Australian. “My discussions with potential broadcast partners have been very positive so we’ll see what the situation looks like at the end of the week.”

    While Fox Sports has for some time expressed a clear preference for a trans-Tasman model, they have also been moderately impressed with the ratings achieved for Super Rugby AU. If a 2022 trans-Tasman competition can be announced within the next week, with a domestic series holding the fort in the meantime, it would deliver a degree of certainty to broadcasters for the foreseeable future.

    The one thing Rugby Australia needs to avoid at this point is to antagonise broadcasters as Cricket Australia has done with Seven, promising a program that Seven does not believe it will deliver.

    Watch every game of Super Rugby AU Live & On-Demand on Kayo. New to Kayo? Get your 14-day free trial & start streaming instantly

    McLennan has made no secret that he believes there is already competitive tension among private equity firms and that is certain to intensify now that the trans-Tasman competition model looks set to be green-lit.

    CVC Capital Partners, which already owns a huge chunk of northern hemisphere rugby – having paid $543m for a 14.5 per cent share in the Six Nations tournament, $362m for a 27 per cent share of the English Premiership and another $217m for a 28 per cent share of the Pro14 competition – is intent on securing a sizeable portion of the prime southern hemisphere competition, with a trans-Tasman series would surely be.

    Western Force owner Andrew Forrest looks to have backed a winner
    Western Force owner Andrew Forrest looks to have backed a winner
    Silver Lake, a global technology investment firm with a portfolio of investments that collectively generates more than $200 billion of revenue annually, has made it clear it wants to thwart CVC’s grand plan. All of which could produce a solution to the cash flow problems of Australia and NZ rugby should they choose to go that way.

    Closer to home, Perth mining billionaire Andrew Forrest also will be heartened that Rugby Australia looks to have contrived the rebirth of the Western Force as a fully-fledged member of a major international competition. He had made it clear that there also needs to be constitutional reform of Australian rugby before he would consider investing in the game nationally but he must be delighted that McLennan’s “five or no one” condition looks like proving a winner.

    The Force is waiting an official announcement before launching its recruitment program. If the trans-Tasman competition is delayed until 2022, it will give coach Tim Sampson time to get a more balanced squad together.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The InnFORCEr View Post
    Basically WE'RE BACK
    And this time we mean business!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alison View Post
    And this time we mean business!!!!
    mainly because we're the only team that can offer players a guaranteed wage as well as an opportunity to represent the Wallabies.

    I wonder if McLennan has thought about the possible consequences of trying to engage with Twiggy long term, the governance changes thing seems pretty non-negotiable

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    Quote Originally Posted by GIGS20 View Post
    mainly because we're the only team that can offer players a guaranteed wage as well as an opportunity to represent the Wallabies.

    I wonder if McLennan has thought about the possible consequences of trying to engage with Twiggy long term, the governance changes thing seems pretty non-negotiable

    How so? This report if true provides RA with the ability to get a deal done for not only next season but beyond with a degree of certainty.

    Which means. While not solving all our money woes, it will ensure players will still be getting paid. As for the governance issues. Hopefully it means it's moving toward a far more commercially minded set up in terms of administering the competition. An independent board and executive with each franchise, Union and PE interests represented with a vote in all future decisions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The InnFORCEr View Post
    Basically WE'RE BACK
    Back?!? We never left.

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  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by WCRugger View Post
    How so? This report if true provides RA with the ability to get a deal done for not only next season but beyond with a degree of certainty.

    Which means. While not solving all our money woes, it will ensure players will still be getting paid. As for the governance issues. Hopefully it means it's moving toward a far more commercially minded set up in terms of administering the competition. An independent board and executive with each franchise, Union and PE interests represented with a vote in all future decisions.
    There'll be less money, they won't have enough to prop up the Rebels, Tahs and Reds (in that order), certainly not to the level that those players are used to. The bailout of a new broadcast deal won't solve the extensive waste, mismanagement and overspending, it'll be more paper over the cracks.

    Let's not forget, RA were virtually insolvent before COVID, and any new deal that doesn't include a radical revamp of the financial management of the game will only delay the inevitable.

    As for governance, I don't think Twiggy was limiting it to Super Rugby. I think he wants everybody to have fair representation at the highest level and he still seems to be suggesting he won't put a dollar into RA until that occurs. That might mean that McLennan can keep his job, but I don't think the likes of Pip Marlow would survive, (I just looked up the current board listing and it appears Eales has remained true to form and slithered off, presumably with a golden parachute

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