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Thread: The great Rugby shame"The revolution has started as grassroots shun the establishment

  1. #31
    Champion SPaRTAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jargan83 View Post
    Couldn't even win the One Day Domestic Final at home at the WACA in 2003. But good luck at the World Cup

    https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/...ng-cup-2002-03
    Which International sides would have beaten WA in 03?

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  2. #32
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPaRTAN View Post
    Your talking about a totally different era to the one I was talking about. The fact is WA would have smashed the Australian test team of the last decade, fact. From memory Ponting and co were long gone then and you still failed to identify any international sides that would have beaten that WA side during that era. Save the waffle for someone who cares
    Then your memory is failing you, as Ponting's last test was December 2012.
    Ponting won 62% of his tests as captain. Michael Clarke's period of captaincy (2012-2015) was a bit less successful, but still over 50% (24 of 47, 51%, with 7 drawn) and Steve Smith (2015-2018) managed 53% (18 of 34 with 6 drawn). Tim Paine's won 8 of 17, 3 drawn, lost 6 so while his win % is 'only' 47%, he's won more tests than he's lost.

    So none of the captains of the last decade has had a losing record, yet you claim WA on their own would have smashed them.

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  4. #34
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    The elephant in the room is facing reality.

    Whilst Neil Breen's article started this thread, he has written to me privately saying he has no idea about Rugby in WA. Peter Fitzsimons has told me the future of Rugby is to focus on the cradle, the historical fact that NSW, and to a lesser extent QLD is where the focus should be. Phil Kearns has said the Australian Academy of excellence which they are basing upon IRANZ is where we need to channel our efforts and perhaps aspiring Sandgropers just have to do the same as Welborn did and that is travel East.

    So, perhaps secession is a bit radical - I dropped the line to prompt some debate - we need to plan and grow the game our way.

    My discussion with all 3 of the above began with a question " O.K. so you keep saying we need to support Grassroots...be specific, where and how?" Their answers centred around clubs - we have to support the community clubs, more money needs to go into the clubs".

    When pressed further they had no idea. So, typically they fired the same question back at me. Here are my answers;

    1. Schools such as Knox, Newington, Joeys etc - like our PSA Schools can no longer provide teachers to coach the Sporting teams, because teachers are now doing a lot more justification work to answer helicopter parent issues, they don't get paid enough to spend the time to go and get Rugby ( in the case of Rugby ) coaching accreditation etc etc. RA needs to look at a proper structure to allow lay people to begin their coaching journey at School level. Maybe some of the coaches will grow into candidates for Wallabies jobs???
    2. Volunteers at clubs are all getting long in the tooth, the work to now manage clubs is mounting and younger people don't have the time. Yet we have an underemployment issue federally. Sporting bodies could lobby the Feds and propose that creative remuneration be organised to allow clubs to employ these people.
    3. RA must create a sub-committee similar to CRAC where every community group at the coal face are represented.
    4. Why copy IRANZ in New Zealand when our own Future Force Program does exactly the same job and has produced Wallabies and Super Rugby Players.

    So, let's forget about enlightening or becoming meaningful to NSW, these guys listened to me, provided good old platitudes, but agreed, WA is just too far away.

    Happy Christmas to y'all.

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    Immortal GIGS20's Avatar
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    What hansie said.

    I don't necessarily see that as succession, merely looking after our own house in a system that is designed to destroy us so that others may prosper feeding off our carcass

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    C'mon the

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    Yep, pretty much summarises my earlier post. We need to structure WA rugby to provide a pathway right to the top assuming minimal reliance on anything from the East (perhaps even active roadblocks). That has certainly been the experience historically, no reason to assume it will change. That includes playing stocks - WA should be developing its own rather than importing from the East. If local money is going to be spent and no assistance provided, it should be spent locally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SPaRTAN View Post
    Your talking about a totally different era to the one I was talking about. The fact is WA would have smashed the Australian test team of the last decade, fact. From memory Ponting and co were long gone then and you still failed to identify any international sides that would have beaten that WA side during that era. Save the waffle for someone who cares
    No I'm not. You mentioned Hussey, Hogg etc. I covered the exact time frame they would have been around. As mentioned before WA hasn't won a Shield competition since 99. Been better at the OD format but even then they'd struggle to put up score against an international side. You're wrong. Simple as that. You should be used to it by now.

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    Last edited by WCRugger; 20-12-19 at 12:40.

  8. #38
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    The Brumbies have posted a $64 k profit which isn’t too bad considering they were expecting a loss and had to finance the Sharks’ expenses for the home qf.

    Expected to be the only Aus Super Rugby side to post a profit this year.

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  9. #39
    Champion SPaRTAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hansie View Post
    The elephant in the room is facing reality.

    Whilst Neil Breen's article started this thread, he has written to me privately saying he has no idea about Rugby in WA. Peter Fitzsimons has told me the future of Rugby is to focus on the cradle, the historical fact that NSW, and to a lesser extent QLD is where the focus should be. Phil Kearns has said the Australian Academy of excellence which they are basing upon IRANZ is where we need to channel our efforts and perhaps aspiring Sandgropers just have to do the same as Welborn did and that is travel East.

    So, perhaps secession is a bit radical - I dropped the line to prompt some debate - we need to plan and grow the game our way.

    My discussion with all 3 of the above began with a question " O.K. so you keep saying we need to support Grassroots...be specific, where and how?" Their answers centred around clubs - we have to support the community clubs, more money needs to go into the clubs".

    When pressed further they had no idea. So, typically they fired the same question back at me. Here are my answers;

    1. Schools such as Knox, Newington, Joeys etc - like our PSA Schools can no longer provide teachers to coach the Sporting teams, because teachers are now doing a lot more justification work to answer helicopter parent issues, they don't get paid enough to spend the time to go and get Rugby ( in the case of Rugby ) coaching accreditation etc etc. RA needs to look at a proper structure to allow lay people to begin their coaching journey at School level. Maybe some of the coaches will grow into candidates for Wallabies jobs???
    2. Volunteers at clubs are all getting long in the tooth, the work to now manage clubs is mounting and younger people don't have the time. Yet we have an underemployment issue federally. Sporting bodies could lobby the Feds and propose that creative remuneration be organised to allow clubs to employ these people.
    3. RA must create a sub-committee similar to CRAC where every community group at the coal face are represented.
    4. Why copy IRANZ in New Zealand when our own Future Force Program does exactly the same job and has produced Wallabies and Super Rugby Players.

    So, let's forget about enlightening or becoming meaningful to NSW, these guys listened to me, provided good old platitudes, but agreed, WA is just too far away.

    Happy Christmas to y'all.
    Secesion isnt radical, its the logical step if nothing changes. WA can't just keep being the abused step child of the relationship, at some stage there needs to be a light bulb moment where we say enough is enough, we are almost there and the way RugbyAustralia keep pushing we should be there in the next year or two where we have a fully fledged plan to move forward either with the full support of RA or independantly whilst looking out for our future junior generation. Plenty of Nations can have split sides. Ireland has it in all sports other than ironically Rugby. In Irish soccer there is the Northern Irish and Irish sides. In England you also have Wales the principality. We need to get serious for our future generation and not selfishly live under the RA umbrella simply because we want national representation in the Wallaby side. Well heres the thing, that Wallaby side no longer selects from over here in the West, its merely an eastern states pseudo national side disguised as being representative of Australia. Just like the FIRA and FRU we should have rapid rugby looking to try and emulate the FIRA (Which became Rugby Europe) to develop and include the other lost states in WA. The problem with doing nothing and expecting a different result is that it makes us look totally insane with no real ideas caught in a nasty loop of taking shit from RugbyAustralia indefinitely. We need to break the cycle, show we are serious and have the power to do so and start the transition into a new body and literally just forget about the past and what may have become in the future if we were still tied to RA. RugbyWA owe it to the fans after the IP and selling the rights back to RA (Alliance agreement) fiasco to not just wither on the vine, but strategically win this fight.

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  10. #40
    Immortal jargan83's Avatar
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    After we beat the likes of Japan, Argentina etc I reckon we should bid for a WA only Rugby World Cup.

    Imagine what the legacy of such an event would leave WA. Obviously the final would be at Optus Stadium but we could build 30,000 seat stadiums at some of the Premier Grade Club grounds like Nedlands, Palmyra, Uni etc.Throw in some regional towns like Albany, Geraldton and Port Hedland. I wouldn't give any games to Rockingham, we don't want to expose our international visitors to those bogans.

    Imagine 30,000 people cheering on a Premier Grade match at Palmyra Stadium or Doubleview Stadium for West's.

    I guess the Rugby League competition would benefit from it in the Pilbara but it's a small price to pay.

    I reckon we could tell World Rugby that because the Comp is held in WA that GRR's rule book will have to used, England, NZ and South Africa won't know what hit them.

    Make secession happen people!

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    Last edited by jargan83; 22-12-19 at 09:37. Reason: Spelling mistake

  11. #41
    Champion SPaRTAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jargan83 View Post
    After we beat the likes of Japan, Argentina etc I reckon we should bid for a WA only Rugby World Cup.

    Imagine what the legacy of such an event would leave WA. Obviously the final would be at Optus Stadium but we could build 30,000 seat stadiums at some of the Premier Grade Club grounds like Nedlands, Palmyra, Uni etc.Throw in some regional towns like Albany, Geraldton and Port Hedland. I wouldn't give any games to Rockingham, we don't want to expose our international visitors to those bogans.

    Imagine 30,000 people cheering on a Premier Grade match at Palmyra Stadium or Doubleview Stadium for West's.

    I guess the Rugby League competition would benefit from it in the Pilbara but it's a small price to pay.

    I reckon we could tell World Rugby that because the Como is held in WA that GRR's rule book will have to used, England, NZ and South Africa won't know what hit them.

    Make secession happen people!
    Sounds like a whole new sport. Good luck with that.

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  12. #42
    Immortal jargan83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPaRTAN View Post
    Sounds like a whole new sport. Good luck with that.
    I guess the GRR rules are new-ish.

    But you're the one that said WA would beat Japan, Argentina and the Pacific nations.

    A Rugby World Cup is an independent WA's destiny!

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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIGS20 View Post
    What hansie said.
    Ditto.

    Quote Originally Posted by GIGS20 View Post
    I don't necessarily see that as succession, merely looking after our own house in a system that is designed to destroy us so that others may prosper feeding off our carcass
    Is it a system "that is designed to destroy us"?
    Perhaps it's more a matter of WA being "out of sight, out of mind", as Hansie alludes to?

    My mates on the North Shore agree that the ARU/RA's treatment of WA Rugby in 2017 was shabby and totally sucked, but they weren't surprised, given the good burghers from Mosman who were in charge of the ARU/RA at the time (and who have thankfully either moved on or will be moving on in 2020).

    The general opinion on the North Shore appears to be that Rugby in WA will have to look after itself because NSW (and to a lesser extent QLD) have so many internal problems that they've got no time or resources for other unions at present, and in any case, if they ever do get things sorted out in the NSWRU and QRU (including their relationships with the ARU/RA), then there will remain the small problem of what to do about that ever deepening fiscal black-hole in Melbourne.

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  14. #44
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    Your mates on the North Shore need reminding that the "resources of the RA", dont belong exclusively to NSW and Qld. The key letter there is the A, which stands for Australia. Maybe $10mil of those RA 2019 resources came from the Bledisloe match in Perth, plus WA is 10% or more,the consumers of Qantas and other Wallaby sponsors products.

    Anyway with Twiggy backing WA, we are more than looking ourselves.

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    In the Qantas CEO's 2019 report, he jumps straight to the Perth-London flight first in just about his opening words.
    "QANTAS continued to be one of the best performing airline groups in FY19. This performance is largely due to a long-term strategy of investment and innovation. The restructure of our international network over the past few years is a good example. Perth-London direct has given us a unique advantage in a very competitive market."
    https://investor.qantas.com/FormBuil...Report-ASX.pdf

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