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Thread: Springboks in Perth

  1. #16
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    I understand what you are saying X, but would still observe that your perspective is different. Perhaps you'd still be fine with it if RA eliminated all professional rugby in NSW, gave the state union $180k total to run all of the rugby in the state (cut the cloth to suit), then took $5-10M out of the state each year and openly gave it to Brisbane and Melbourne. But if so I bet you'd be an orphan.

    But I have to wonder whether you know until you try. There is much moaning about deprivation at the grass roots, but most wouldn't really know what that actually looks like.

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  2. #17
    Legend Contributor .X.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyS View Post
    I understand what you are saying X, but would still observe that your perspective is different. Perhaps you'd still be fine with it if RA eliminated all professional rugby in NSW, gave the state union $180k total to run all of the rugby in the state (cut the cloth to suit), then took $5-10M out of the state each year and openly gave it to Brisbane and Melbourne. But if so I bet you'd be an orphan.

    But I have to wonder whether you know until you try. There is much moaning about deprivation at the grass roots, but most wouldn't really know what that actually looks like.
    So now I know nothing about Grass Roots Rugby.

    In the 1990's I was a Waterboy who graduated to Team Manager who graduated to a Property Manager who graduated to a Vice President and President of a Rugby Club in Katherine in the Nothern Territory.

    This Comp had 4 Clubs, one team each. For 5 months they played each other on a Friday night. And then went to the final series. where we won the Grand Final for the First 5 years in a row. Our Team did not have a try scored against us until the 2nd Grand Final. After 12 of the first fifteen drove for 19 hours straight from Townsville to Katherine in a Coaster bus for the privilege of playing in the Grand Final arriving 40 minutes before kickoff.

    In 2000 - 2001 I was the Assistant Team Manager of the Air Force National Side competiting the Australian Services Rugby Union.

    Since 2010 I have been a Team Manager, Property Manager, Bar Manager and Canteen Manager of a Club in the Sydney Suburban Rugby Competition. in Third and Second Division.

    Never once in almost 20 years of Rugby volunteering and administration have I seen an official from Rugby Australia, Sydney Rugby or Suburban Rugby.


    ------------------------------

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    Last edited by .X.; 09-11-19 at 10:11. Reason: ill-advised bad temper

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  3. #18
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    Fine, so tell us all about what it has been like at the grass roots in Western Australia over the last couple of years.

    What I said is you are looking at it from a whole different set of grass roots, with a whole different funding profile, in a whole different state. You are telling everyone to get over it from a state that is still supported by RA, sits at the heart of "Australian Rugby", still has professional rugby, and gets millions of dollars a year in development funding and programs. Even if you don't see any of it directly, it can't help but define every thing around you. Are you really so lacking in self awareness that you can't see that you might be coming across a bit like Marie Antoinette?

    But thanks for the kind wishes anyway.

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    Last edited by AndyS; 09-11-19 at 08:24.

  4. #19
    Legend Contributor .X.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyS View Post
    Fine, so tell us all about what it has been like at the grass roots in Western Australia over the last couple of years.

    What I said is you are looking at it from a whole different set of grass roots, with a whole different funding profile, in a whole different state. You are telling everyone to get over it from a state that is still supported by RA, sits at the heart of "Australian Rugby", still has professional rugby, and gets millions of dollars a year in development funding and programs. Even if you don't see any of it directly, it can't help but define every thing around you. Are you really so lacking in self awareness that you can't see that you might be coming across a bit like Marie Antoinette?

    But thanks for the kind wishes anyway.
    Funding Profile? What Funding.

    I may have no clue about Club Rugby in WA. And it is now very obvious that You have no clue about Rugby in NSW or anywhere else in Australia.

    NSW Rugby is so broke it shares the offices with Subbies Rugby - that barely has its head above water. Club Rugby Registration this year in NSW included a NSW and a Rugby Australia "Levy". The only funding NSW Rugby looks at is Super Rugby. Shute Shield Television broadcast is funded by the Shute Shield Clubs. And all the Shute Shield Clubs care about is Shute Shield. Subbies Rugby is almost self-sufficient. It has to be.

    My apologies for the bad language - it was an over-reaction. I will remove it from my previous post.

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  5. #20
    Immortal Contributor shasta's Avatar
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    X. This discussion is getting unnecessarily heated. My initial comment was directed at your serming inability to accept that some of us can't and don't want to "get over it". How bout we just agree to disagree. "It" is what it is. End of story.

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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by wholetruth View Post
    Saw a story in the west about the Boks coming next year.
    Will try and get a copy to post.
    Its behind the paywall.
    Eh, just more of the same. Wish we got someone else for a change..

    Another sub 20k crowd?

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  7. #22
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    No problems X, only took it as such.

    An example of the funding I was particularly thinking of was the couple of million dollars a year in NSW development officers and programs that RA have always picked up directly. As I say, you may not see it or be directly involved, but it happens anyway and is all part of the air the game breathes in NSW and nowhere else. Someone else picks up that load and it is just in the background, not consciously registered.

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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by shasta View Post
    X. This discussion is getting unnecessarily heated. My initial comment was directed at your serming inability to accept that some of us can't and don't want to "get over it". How bout we just agree to disagree. "It" is what it is. End of story.
    I think everybody in this debate, would agree that the RA under Clyne has been a disaster for rugby in Australia and has stunk. So we are all one team. Lets focus on getting rid of Clyne and his closed shop board of like minded people.

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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSJ View Post
    I think everybody in this debate, would agree that the RA under Clyne has been a disaster for rugby in Australia and has stunk. So we are all one team. Lets focus on getting rid of Clyne and his closed shop board of like minded people.
    100% Agree....

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    Veteran sittingbison's Avatar
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    I would posit that there was NO economic benefit to WA hosing the All BLacks, and will be none from hosting the World Champions. Especially when you put any income against losses to juniors, schools, clubs, stadium hire, food and drink sales by rugby being abandoned here

    As we TWFers know from a decade of bitter experience, saffers and kiwis come out of the woodwork when THEIR team arrives, but they dont necessarily travel here from afar, certainly not to the extent you might imagine with words like "sell out" bandied about. And one sold out Optus is five average Super crowds, or 4 GRR. Do RA plan on one WA Test every couple of years? you do the math

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  11. #26
    Legend Contributor .X.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sittingbison View Post
    I would posit that there was NO economic benefit to WA hosing the All BLacks, and will be none from hosting the World Champions. Especially when you put any income against losses to juniors, schools, clubs, stadium hire, food and drink sales by rugby being abandoned here

    As we TWFers know from a decade of bitter experience, saffers and kiwis come out of the woodwork when THEIR team arrives, but they dont necessarily travel here from afar, certainly not to the extent you might imagine with words like "sell out" bandied about. And one sold out Optus is five average Super crowds, or 4 GRR. Do RA plan on one WA Test every couple of years? you do the math
    Yes, Hello - I am here for an argument. But it has to follow my rules.

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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by .X. View Post
    I asked this question last year, I will ask it again - why would you not want a Rugby Union Test Match in Perth? Why wouldn't you want to watch the current World Champions? Live and only a train, car, bus ride away. Are you Rugby fans or not?

    Jargs, Shasta - Do I understand you correctly - You don't want a Test Match in Perth because you don't want the WA Government to give RA money. Or you just don't want a Test Match in Perth because: RA kicked the Force out of Super Rugby?
    I have no problem with Rugby Australia playing a Test here in Perth. The WA Government should not pay RA to do it. Rugby Australia, the organisation that lied to the WA State Government about keeping the Force in the Super Rugby competition before HBF Park was redeveloped into an actual stadium.

    Rugby Australia will likely not select any Force players despite saying they would be considered for selection for the Wallabies.

    Rugby Australia should fund their own event pure and simple.

    I would love to go and watch the current World Champions, but I'm not going to. Buying a ticket to that event shows the admin team at Rugby Australia that we're ok with what they've done.

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  13. #28
    Immortal Contributor The InnFORCEr's Avatar
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    I'm going to treat it the same as Bledisloe, I refuse to pay for a ticket, but if I am invited back to the same corporate suite for the Boks, I will just have to go. Now, I hope I didn't blow my chances during the Bledisloe

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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by jargan83 View Post
    I have no problem with Rugby Australia playing a Test here in Perth. The WA Government should not pay RA to do it. Rugby Australia, the organisation that lied to the WA State Government about keeping the Force in the Super Rugby competition before HBF Park was redeveloped into an actual stadium.

    Rugby Australia will likely not select any Force players despite saying they would be considered for selection for the Wallabies.

    Rugby Australia should fund their own event pure and simple.

    I would love to go and watch the current World Champions, but I'm not going to. Buying a ticket to that event shows the admin team at Rugby Australia that we're ok with what they've done.
    They should also be charged the standard venue hire fee, because they'll be keeping all the ticket sales I can guarantee it.

    I would be delighted to watch the springboks defeat the Wallabies in Perth, but I'm not going to send a cent to the FURA to do so.

    I don't think X misunderstands the depth of feeling over here, nor do I think he's a NSW apologist, I just think he (like others on this site) would like to see a future for Rugby in Australia as would we all.

    X sees the Wallabies team as separate from the administration and others on this site would agree with him.

    I don't, and others on this site appear to agree with me.

    As a result, this argument is circular, neither side will change their mind. X and I have tested that on many occasions and resolved to respectfully agree to disagree for the sake of our friendship (note how I've tried to be silent on this one for a bit)

    Let's all step back and give the argument up, otherwise this thread will continue to fester and piss people off on both sides of the fence.

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    C'mon the

  15. #30
    Legend Contributor .X.'s Avatar
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    I will attempt to make this my last comment on this thread. No promises.

    First up a question for everyone. If next year's Springbok Test in Perth is a sellout (not likely) and you don't go. Who are you punishing? The ARU still got their money but you missed out on a Test match between the current RWC Champions and an improving Wallabies. And did you miss out on the opportunity to see a Bledisloe (Wallabies win) in Perth? Isn't that one of those cut off your nose to spite your face things?

    I believe that because I choose not to say FURA or call the Chairman of RA De-Clyne. Some members of TWF think that I am an RA sympathizer or Apologist. This is far from the truth. I don't call the Organisation or its Chair names because I think its quite frankly ridiculously childish. If the opportunity arises. I will punch Cameron Clyne in the mouth.

    I believe that the Wallabies are our national team and deserve our support.

    I believe that the biggest thing that scares me the most, and what some at TWF seem to want more than anything else, is that RA goes under and that no one bails them out and I lose my favorite sport.

    Again my apologies for the previous posts bad language.

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