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Thread: Can I please have my 10 minutes back now Sir?

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    Senior Player antiussentiment's Avatar
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    Can I please have my 10 minutes back now Sir?

    Let's just flop this right on the bench. Anything that is pretty good, is not going to get better, or be more enjoyable, if you decrease the time you get to enjoy it. I've gone to three games now, so I think I've given it a fair go. But I have this nagging feeling in one more game, I'll have missed out on a whole half of rugby. Do I like rugby? Yes. Would I like to see more rugby in Perth? Yes. So can someone please explain this whole "less is more" thing to me?

    And while I have my grumpy key wound up. Can we chat about this experimental rules thing? In particular, who these rules are aimed at. As a rugby fan of some years, I've watched the rules get looked at fairly regularly. Pretty much every season the Whistle Men decide that a rule or two need some colour added to it's interpretation. But beneath this, rugby still remained rugby. I was ok with that. I think it has progressed the game without.. ..turning it into a circus.

    Basically. I'm pretty happy with how rugby works.

    So lets look at the Rapid Rugby rules;
    No touch latitude from within the 22 meter area of your panic zone. I guess this means people will keep the ball in play more? But you regularly see teams carrying the ball past the sanctuary of the 22 before kicking it anyway. So this rule does not pass the needed test. In fact kicking duels that involve cleaver use of touch are bloody entertaining. I know this is supposed to get teams to run the ball more, but which coach is going to tell their charges to fuck around with possession under their own posts. So it fails that test too. Nope I don't like it.

    Getting a line out throw, that you don't deserve, off a long kick to touch. Wait?! So now you are going to try to encourage the ball into touch by boot. When part of the last mod I looked at was about getting a bit more running in the game? Make up your mind good Sirs. Allowing a line out feed off penalty kicks to touch actually makes some sense. But you'll get no more out of me than that. If you put the ball out, then you can sweat on getting it off the other team with a smidgen of work. Nope I don't like it.

    The POWER TRY. One of the things I like in my rugby viewing is watching the play ebb and flow around the field. Keeping full backs and defensive wingers on their toes, watching for that play breaking kick. This whole "Run the ball like you stole it" mentality totally flies in the face of that. I use to watch a bit of league once. Where pretty much all you get is people running the ball.. ..and running the ball.. .. and some more ball running. Give me some bloody colour in my football please. Nope I don't like it.

    Here's the thing. I'm a rugby fan. I like rugby. It suits rugby fans like me. Turning it into basketball or AFL to try to get non rugby fans to watch it is not going to be a thing. Here's something to think about. Can rugby still be great if only rugby fans like it?

    I'd also like to ask if we can restrict the jovial video interludes - which I actually quite enjoy - to the breaks in play? Oh hang on, there's fewer of them now that we're more rapid. Wait what?!

    There's a little man in the back of my head with a hammer and a frying pan shouting that we are suffering all this because we needed the world body to sanction our tournament. If that is the case, fair bump play on. But lets not dump on all the rugby fans in an effort to scrounge a few extra folk who wont give a shit about the game 5 minutes after full time?

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    Veteran chibi's Avatar
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    My gripe is not with GRR, but with modern rugby itself. I'm concerned about the game degenerating into a series of hit-ups, sometimes with players at a standing start running straight into groups of ready defenders, ready to take a tackle and hit ground to recycle. I can understand if this is quick well-constructed phase-play, but these are not that. This is brain-lazy stuff where the team in possession knows there is no chance of losing possession when running uselessly straight into defenders. There is no attempt at trying to stay on their feet, to turn around and form a spontaneous maul, nor are their team-mates there following like a pack to drive the man and push the defensive line back to draw in defenders. I wonder if this is something GRR can address? Maybe a law that says whomever is going forward at the maul or ruck, regardless who initiates, gets the ball? Could this force players into the contact area to secure possession by pushing, opening up space out wide to see some more three-quarter movements? Have the rules of rugby changed so much that forwards no longer have anything to gain by supporting the ball-carrier and using the standing recycle anymore? If a team adds this old skill to their repertoire, can they benefit?

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    Immortal Contributor shasta's Avatar
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    Not sure about that variation to the maul. I see the idea, but still the team playing those dumb P 'n' D tactics should not be rewarded for poor technique just because they move a couple of feet forward.

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    "The main difference between playing League and Union is that now I get my hangovers on Monday instead of Sunday - Tom David

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    Senior Player antiussentiment's Avatar
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    I was just chatting to my sweetheart (4 years new to rugby) how teams, back in the day, would sometimes set mauls in contact. Then when/if the ball was trapped the team "going forward" was given the scrum feed. More scrums. But I don't think I'd mind a few more scrums (see previous comment about being a rugby fan).

    And yeah. Defending forwards having to commit to a surprise maul defence would open up the 10 and 12 channel I think. Though I think I'm OK with either flavour of the maul ruling? Neither of which change the aesthetic of rugby too much.

    My point is. Let's not dumb rugby down to suit those who don't get it. Not everybody has to like rugby and that's ok.

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    Immortal GIGS20's Avatar
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    I take your comments, but wanted to provide an alternate perspective from a similarly dyed in the wool traditionalist.


    I don't notice the missing 10 minutes, I seriously don't.

    That one was put in to fit the game to broadcast better.

    I always thought of the 10/22 kick as more of a concession to keep great kickers in the game, you need to offer a reason not to turn fullbacks into nothing more than run back machines with massive boots for kicking it up the middle.

    The lack of soontenaity in forming mauls isn't really an issue isolated to grr, I think it's a "modern rugby" affectation. I reckon this means eventually some attack-minded forwards coach is going to give it a crack and we'll see if it is a performance based thing

    I thought the scrums were atrocious last night. Endless buggerising around once the dragons decided they didn't want to scrum even on their own feed, chewing up time (which there is apparently less of) I was begging for the Ref to time his minute and penalise somebody (anybody in the end)

    But the overriding assessment from my house?

    I don't think this game feels different to watch than modern rugby, it still contains the important stuff (a contest for the bal and a place for every shape) and my daughter who was never interested enough in the rugby to actually go, is now interested in getting a membership to come with me.

    I'd say keep tweaking the variations, but the higher priority is to give a rugby fan a button to turn bullshit cam off as soon as time is blown on

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  6. #6
    Senior Player antiussentiment's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIGS20 View Post
    ... but the higher priority is to give a rugby fan a button to turn bullshit cam off as soon as time is blown on
    Yeah all of this.. Yes I do like the fringe show that accompanies the live game now. But keep it to breaks in play please.

    And your daughter? Maybe it's is the new rugby circus.. ..or has she just grown a little fonder of a good bloke?
    ~ smiles ~

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    Champion SPaRTAN's Avatar
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    I agree that 40min halves are better than 35min halves. I reckon that extra 10min could be where all the action starts to unfold as teams tire near the end of the game.

    I reckon they need to Reintroduce the scrum clock and immediately call a quicktap as soon as 60seconds is up. Do not allow a team to rescrum and make it a quivk reset and get the game moving. Last nights scrums were farcical and how much time got wasted?

    I am willing to see how the 20 40 unfolds for now. Too early too tell. It frustrates me when the Force kick from good attacking positions. This isnt a problem with the laws, just mindless chicken rugby instead.

    Overall though I think the flow of the game is good and action packed. I dont mind all the little cams they do even if they do distract people from the action. I think its good teams cannot kick out on the full from their 22. More pressure on teams to get out which is a good thing as it will make getting out of your 22 a core defensive strategy that could make or break teams. Right now Rugby is pretty monotonous when it comes to releiving pressure inside your 22 and there is a serious lack of skill to it. Right now in GRR its somrthing teams are going to have to master unless they want to be cannon fodder which increases the margin of skill in this facet of play. Its a good thing.

    Plus its rewarding attacking from your 22 as it can result in a power try, I enjoy those and think they add a great counter attacking element to the game, and not just strategically but from a on field perspective, but in coming back in games where defeat seems a likely certainty under the rules. Think Tom Bradys super bowl victory with the Patriots over Atlanta with the 2 point conversions he scored in Leiu of the 1 point conversion kicks at goal to come back and win the super bowl. That is what power tries will do to the game. It is revolutionising it, it will take time for teams to master and use effectively.

    Overall I think the onfield stuff is heading in a positive direction. I dont see it as being too different to super rugby right now as teams dont seem to be taking advantage of the new rules quite yet, when they do I reckon we will see alot more change for the better.

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    Legend Contributor Alison's Avatar
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    The endless scrum re-sets really took the momentum out of the game for me. But I agree with GIGS, I really didn’t notice the loss of 10 minutes. It was still great rugby and so good to see the Force take the win. They really are a special group of blokes and have created an enviable bond and culture under Tim and his coaching team. That, for me, is the best thing of all.

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    Proudly Western Australian; Proudly supporting Western Australian rugby

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    Senior Player antiussentiment's Avatar
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    Well you and giggs may not notice the missing 10. But I feel mildly ripped off.
    Spartans point about teams tiring in the final 5 minutes of a half is well worth consideration. We are missing out on that aspect for sure.

    If the 10 minutes less is to try to satisfy media needs? Then that is a real tragedy. If it's really so important how does football and AFL get away with the length of their telecast?

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    Veteran Ecky's Avatar
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    I took my son. It's the second time he's been to a game; the first in Super Rugby days. He got bored during the first match.
    At half time last night he said "half time already?". He was engaged for the entire game.

    Scrums: Not one single game of twiggyball has been officiated according to the publicised change. Maybe they need to review things, so that there is just no option for a ref to call for a reset.

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  11. #11
    Senior Player antiussentiment's Avatar
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    So we have two people with siblings (Edit: Offsprings) who were bores on visit one, but smiled more on visit two.
    Maybe this is because of the new rules? But there is a bunch of other stuff that is done really differently too.
    Is it the rugby or the other stuff?
    Or the fact said siblings are now ready to enjoy rugby? People do grow. Even in there junior adult years..
    It would be useful to understand the cause here..

    So here's the question. Do we want people to the games for the show or for the rugby? Someone who engages with the rugby (like my beloved) will be there for a game under any circumstances. You'll find us cheering UWA ones on a few time this year.. But someone who comes for the show alone may never be a rugby fan?

    So.. ..If I was an old bloke (wait what??) that really liked vanilla ice cream.. ..but they stopped making it (gasp) because the Johny come latelys wanted raspberry swirl.. ..would i give up ice cream?

    And yeah. Give me meaningful scrums.

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    Last edited by antiussentiment; 14-04-19 at 06:27.
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  12. #12
    Veteran BLR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIGS20 View Post
    I don't think this game feels different to watch than modern rugby, it still contains the important stuff (a contest for the bal and a place for every shape) and my daughter who was never interested enough in the rugby to actually go, is now interested in getting a membership to come with me.

    I'd say keep tweaking the variations, but the higher priority is to give a rugby fan a button to turn bullshit cam off as soon as time is blown on
    The boldened part is crucial and I think it is clearly VERY different to Super Rugby. I like it, I want to be in my 90's talking about all the dynasties of WA teams that beat the hell out of everyone, the kids are where that is at.

    I think it is getting better, notice the music finish right what the scrum half would feed the ball into the scrum. I think they have someone on the button now.

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    Veteran Ecky's Avatar
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    I don't think you mean siblings when you say siblings

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    Immortal GIGS20's Avatar
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    Daughter is 18 now, we had the discussion. The pre-game helped get her through the door, but she's clearly interested in the rugby as well.

    She is now commenting and questioning stuff with confidence and insight. Loves westie antics, laughs at kids stuffing up bongo and floss cam, genuinely new generation fan who is watching the rugby because of the added bullshit, not enduring the boring breaks between the bullshit. I believe some of that is law variations, some is, she finally gave rugby a go because she was set up to be entertained and some is rugby's an exciting game anyway.

    I can put up with karaoke cam in the breaks if it achieves some of that, but for gods sake, contain it to the breaks

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    C'mon the

  15. #15
    Senior Player antiussentiment's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ecky View Post
    I don't think you mean siblings when you say siblings
    As a ref it's expected that you're paying attention.
    ~ laughs ~

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