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Thread: Sunwolves Axed From Super Rugby

  1. #91
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    Or at least commit to GRR in 2021? Then they could sign players for longer deals.

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  2. #92
    Veteran sittingbison's Avatar
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    They shouldn't field a team at all in Super Rugby.

    The legal argument how has already been delivered by Justice Hammerschlag

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    The long sobs of autumn's violins wound my heart with a monotonous languor

  3. #93
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    Sunwolves as they stand probably wouldn't fit. Just one Japanese team wouldn't fit anyone's requirements, least of all theirs. And if there is multiple teams, you don't want just one owned by the national union. I'd like to see the Sunwolves continue (If only for their excellent fans), but someone would have to take them over the way Forrest has with the Force. How a change of ownership would integrate with SR involvement next year could get pretty complex.

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  4. #94
    Champion SPaRTAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyS View Post
    Sunwolves as they stand probably wouldn't fit. Just one Japanese team wouldn't fit anyone's requirements, least of all theirs. And if there is multiple teams, you don't want just one owned by the national union. I'd like to see the Sunwolves continue (If only for their excellent fans), but someone would have to take them over the way Forrest has with the Force. How a change of ownership would integrate with SR involvement next year could get pretty complex.
    How is it that the sunwolves don't fit? Whether there is one or two Japanese teams doesn't make alot of difference. Tokyo is very large and can easily fit 2 teams if neccessary, if not then one team seems totally sufficient considering most other locales only have the one side.

    It seems like a lot of people are making excuses excuses as to why they don't really fit in without actually explaining the reasons why.

    The Sunwolves seem to satisfy the following:
    Large supporter base
    Sufficient infrastructure
    Stadium capacity suitable
    Financially stable
    Meets geographic requirements

    There really isnt alot missing that makes them a perfect candidate for Global Rapid rugby...

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  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPaRTAN View Post
    How is it that the sunwolves don't fit? Whether there is one or two Japanese teams doesn't make alot of difference. Tokyo is very large and can easily fit 2 teams if neccessary, if not then one team seems totally sufficient considering most other locales only have the one side.

    It seems like a lot of people are making excuses excuses as to why they don't really fit in without actually explaining the reasons why.

    The Sunwolves seem to satisfy the following:
    Large supporter base
    Sufficient infrastructure
    Stadium capacity suitable
    Financially stable
    Meets geographic requirements

    There really isnt alot missing that makes them a perfect candidate for Global Rapid rugby...
    All of these would match a number of the existing Top League teams which have a name & history behind it.

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  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLR View Post
    All of these would match a number of the existing Top League teams which have a name & history behind it.
    The Top League's season average for the 18/19 season was just over 5400. The Sunwolves average over 15k. How is that similar?

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  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by WCRugger View Post
    The Top League's season average for the 18/19 season was just over 5400. The Sunwolves average over 15k. How is that similar?
    The Top League teams don't play in Super Rugby. Are you telling me if the Sunwolves played in the Top League they would be getting 15k fans? That a newly manufactured team has captured the imagination of the Japanese people so much that the higher attendance ISN'T a result of being in a international competition with many interesting teams to play against?

    Plus the Top League is a great source of pride for many of the companies which compete. Why not bring them into the fold instead of adding another manufactured, out of place side like the Sunwolves. Get them to load their money into the sides and make it strong.

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  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPaRTAN View Post
    How is it that the sunwolves don't fit? ...
    Because of their administrative structure. They are owned by the national union, where GRR or any likely permutation is likely to be club based. If there is only ever going to be one Japanese team then fine, but I don't think that is what anyone wants or needs. And once it goes to multiple teams they need to be independent, otherwise it would be like having Australia A playing as the fifth Australian SR team.

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  9. #99
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    You mean Rebels?

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  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLR View Post
    The Top League teams don't play in Super Rugby. Are you telling me if the Sunwolves played in the Top League they would be getting 15k fans? That a newly manufactured team has captured the imagination of the Japanese people so much that the higher attendance ISN'T a result of being in a international competition with many interesting teams to play against?

    Plus the Top League is a great source of pride for many of the companies which compete. Why not bring them into the fold instead of adding another manufactured, out of place side like the Sunwolves. Get them to load their money into the sides and make it strong.
    Ok so alot of excuses that dont actually make any sense.

    The sunwolves seem to have captured the imagination of the Japanese people, hence their crowd numbers being up there with some of the biggest super rugby teams in terms of crowd averages.

    When you say club base do you actually mean Franchise based because GRR is definitely not club based. Force are a franchise, AP dragons are a franchise, Hong Kong (aka South China) are a national rep A team, Fiji are a national rep A team, and Samoa is a national representative A team, so tell me again who the clubs are?

    Yes the Top league may be a sense of pride but that also applies to the never say die sunwolves franchise too

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  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by sittingbison View Post
    You mean Rebels?
    Stay out of it, the grown ups are talking..

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  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLR View Post
    The Top League teams don't play in Super Rugby. Are you telling me if the Sunwolves played in the Top League they would be getting 15k fans? That a newly manufactured team has captured the imagination of the Japanese people so much that the higher attendance ISN'T a result of being in a international competition with many interesting teams to play against?

    Plus the Top League is a great source of pride for many of the companies which compete. Why not bring them into the fold instead of adding another manufactured, out of place side like the Sunwolves. Get them to load their money into the sides and make it strong.
    I didn't realise the Western Force were a team in the local Perth comp before entering Super Rugby? Surely they had to be because no one would support such a manufactured team. The Sunwolves draw the crowds they do because they draw fans from a range of Top League teams. None of the Top League teams draw anything similar because they spread out the audience and talent.

    They are also as you suggest a pride thing for the companies and their employees who form the backbone of the bases. Even the players who are largely employed by the companies as well. The Sunwolves have a far greater chance of drawing in Panasonic and Suntory fans that either one of those in GRR.

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  13. #103
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    Yeah, maybe it is a terminology thing. I mean not tied to national eligibility or funding from a national union, as one is restrictive and the others are both perennially broke and would only be taking money out of the mouths of the grass roots. The teams need to be financial and free to put the best possible team they can afford on the field, otherwise we'll just end up in the same mess as SR and SANZAR.

    Cut it how you like, all the SR teams are extensions of their national Unions and subject to those restrictions. So was the Force, but it has been made separate for GRR and is no longer run by RWA. Do the same with the Sunwolves and game on, although as I note it could make next year complicated (not that they have a real seat at the table anyway, though).

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  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyS View Post
    Because of their administrative structure. They are owned by the national union, where GRR or any likely permutation is likely to be club based. If there is only ever going to be one Japanese team then fine, but I don't think that is what anyone wants or needs. And once it goes to multiple teams they need to be independent, otherwise it would be like having Australia A playing as the fifth Australian SR team.
    I've mentioned this before but the Sunwolves IP is effectively up for grabs for the likes of Steve Berrick who wants to base a team in Japan to purchase and run with. Which he should be looking seriously at. They have and are continuing to build their brand in spite of the general incompetence and disinterest. Under the stewardship of a businessman looking to promote the team they could do significantly better.

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  15. #105
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    Yeah, that. And if someone else wants in or some of those Top League teams want to get involved, have at it.

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