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Thread: Sunwolves Axed From Super Rugby

  1. #106
    Veteran BLR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WCRugger View Post
    I didn't realise the Western Force were a team in the local Perth comp before entering Super Rugby? Surely they had to be because no one would support such a manufactured team. The Sunwolves draw the crowds they do because they draw fans from a range of Top League teams. None of the Top League teams draw anything similar because they spread out the audience and talent.

    They are also as you suggest a pride thing for the companies and their employees who form the backbone of the bases. Even the players who are largely employed by the companies as well. The Sunwolves have a far greater chance of drawing in Panasonic and Suntory fans that either one of those in GRR.
    If the Perth club scene was filled with cashed up clubs able to sustain future expansion yes, I would think that's a better idea then an amalgamated Force team, you only need to go to the club section of this forum to see the tribalism available there. The Force are the next best option.

    Japan however DOES have cashed up clubs, and there is the possibility of many of these clubs to hop on over.

    Adding an amalgamated team straight up could cause an issue such as with the Tahs and whether they truely represent ALL of NSW like their name. If they had their time again would it not be better to have them respresent Sydney which would ease the way for a Western Sydney team? Or a problem with a series of amalgamated teams not really tapping into the supposed base effectively, like the NSW NRC teams.

    Sure, if they bring the Sunwolves over and give them a specific area that allows for reasonable future expansion go for it, but why not just use existing clubs in Japan to do so?

    Once again, have the Sunwolves captured the imagination of the Japanese people or the fact they are in the competition they are in? Do the NRC Force draw as much as the GRR/Super Force? I mean, Tokyo has a MASSIVE population and if you look at baseball attendances when there is multiple games a week, the Sunwolves attendences are fine for Super Rugby but not much to crow about for Japan. We'll see I suppose but I would be thinking about trying to tap as deep into that market as possible and I don't see what the Sunwolves bring that can't be replicated with another more focused team.

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    Last edited by BLR; 26-03-19 at 19:52.

  2. #107
    Champion SPaRTAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLR View Post
    If the Perth club scene was filled with cashed up clubs able to sustain future expansion yes, I would think that's a better idea then an amalgamated Force team, you only need to go to the club section of this forum to see the tribalism available there. The Force are the next best option.

    Japan however DOES have cashed up clubs, and there is the possibility of many of these clubs to hop on over.

    Adding an amalgamated team straight up could cause an issue such as with the Tahs and whether they truely represent ALL of NSW like their name. If they had their time again would it not be better to have them respresent Sydney which would ease the way for a Western Sydney team? Or a problem with a series of amalgamated teams not really tapping into the supposed base effectively, like the NSW NRC teams.

    Sure, if they bring the Sunwolves over and give them a specific area that allows for reasonable future expansion go for it, but why not just use existing clubs in Japan to do so?

    Once again, have the Sunwolves captured the imagination of the Japanese people or the fact they are in the competition they are in? Do the NRC Force draw as much as the GRR/Super Force? I mean, Tokyo has a MASSIVE population and if you look at baseball attendances when there is multiple games a week, the Sunwolves attendences are fine for Super Rugby but not much to crow about for Japan. We'll see I suppose but I would be thinking about trying to tap as deep into that market as possible and I don't see what the Sunwolves bring that can't be replicated with another more focused team.
    Having Cottosloe or Nedlands, or even Rockingham in GRR would be an absolutely terrible idea regardless whether they were cashed up or not

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  3. #108
    Veteran BLR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPaRTAN View Post
    Having Cottosloe or Nedlands, or even Rockingham in GRR would be an absolutely terrible idea regardless whether they were cashed up or not
    Why?

    Seems to work quite nicely in English Football having hundreds year old clubs playing on the major stages.

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  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLR View Post
    Why?

    Seems to work quite nicely in English Football having hundreds year old clubs playing on the major stages.
    Because no one would care. You are basically isolating the majority of fans so a sole club can enter the comp. So rather than being inclusive and containing the entire state and fanbase we would attract a handful of fans meanwhile all the die hard fans affiliated with other clubs would lose interest. Basically you are entertaining a shute shield style super league which is one step away from Endorsing Alan Jones vision where the clubs have the power and dictate the direction of the sport through the competition... thanks but no thanks. The Shute Shield is rubbish and no one watches it(except we all know 0.003% of the Sydney population turns out for rhe grand final once a year). So if the shute shield sides cant even get a following then I doubt the Perth club scene would.

    If I wanted to watch Cottosloe /Nedlands or Rockingham I would watch the local club comp, I wouldnt be departing with my hard earned cash to watch a bunch of club players play a style of rugby that wouldnt even match the shute shield sides.

    I reckon you and Alan Jones need to sit down and do some brainstorming

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  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLR View Post
    If the Perth club scene was filled with cashed up clubs able to sustain future expansion yes, I would think that's a better idea then an amalgamated Force team, you only need to go to the club section of this forum to see the tribalism available there. The Force are the next best option.

    Japan however DOES have cashed up clubs, and there is the possibility of many of these clubs to hop on over.

    Adding an amalgamated team straight up could cause an issue such as with the Tahs and whether they truely represent ALL of NSW like their name. If they had their time again would it not be better to have them respresent Sydney which would ease the way for a Western Sydney team? Or a problem with a series of amalgamated teams not really tapping into the supposed base effectively, like the NSW NRC teams.

    Sure, if they bring the Sunwolves over and give them a specific area that allows for reasonable future expansion go for it, but why not just use existing clubs in Japan to do so?

    Once again, have the Sunwolves captured the imagination of the Japanese people or the fact they are in the competition they are in? Do the NRC Force draw as much as the GRR/Super Force? I mean, Tokyo has a MASSIVE population and if you look at baseball attendances when there is multiple games a week, the Sunwolves attendences are fine for Super Rugby but not much to crow about for Japan. We'll see I suppose but I would be thinking about trying to tap as deep into that market as possible and I don't see what the Sunwolves bring that can't be replicated with another more focused team.
    If any of the Top League clubs were capable of drawing similar crowds to the Sunwolves they already would be doing so. They aren't. The Sunwolves are averaging over 15k. It makes no sense to dump a brand that despite not be competitive for much of its history has still managed to build a loyal following for a corporate team that is starting well behind them. And this has been done with its parent organisations general disinterest and ineptitude.

    Buying the IP rights and looking to actually promote the team to its current base and beyond would be far better of a starting point than having a team enter with half as many fans in largely empty stadiums.

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  6. #111
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    Spartan. What about the NRL and AFL? They seem pretty successful on the way they do things. Super Rugby with its province system? Not so much. If there are enough teams from Japan in the GRR down the track everyone is represented and we get the tradition and rivalries that have been built for years. Just like every other successful league.

    WCRugger. You keep ignoring the point. Top League teams have never played in Super Rugby. It's like comparing NRC Force to Super Rugby/GRR Force. Do the Force overnight become an unsuccessful team through magic or is it because of the greater importance put on the international, seemingly more important competition?

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  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLR View Post
    Spartan. What about the NRL and AFL? They seem pretty successful on the way they do things. Super Rugby with its province system? Not so much. If there are enough teams from Japan in the GRR down the track everyone is represented and we get the tradition and rivalries that have been built for years. Just like every other successful league.

    WCRugger. You keep ignoring the point. Top League teams have never played in Super Rugby. It's like comparing NRC Force to Super Rugby/GRR Force. Do the Force overnight become an unsuccessful team through magic or is it because of the greater importance put on the international, seemingly more important competition?
    And your keep ignoring mine. Which is that while entering Top League teams seems like the most ideal solution perhaps it not quite that simple. You're very unlikely to get a Suntory fan to switch allegiances to Panasonic. Or NEC. Or Kobelco etc. For a number of reasons one being that many of the respective clubs fans are also somehow or other either work for or are attached to the respective corporations. Even the domestic guys are employed by the corporations in actual corporate roles as part of their Rugby commitments. Only the imported talent operate externally. While they are also a percentage of fans external to that system that doesn't mean there would be willing to switch allegiance just because the other team is now playing in GRR.

    The Sunwolves offer the ability for these fans to support both their club and the franchise without having to compromise on either and I would suggest that their attendance figures reflect that. Fans of the various Top League teams in Tokyo can openly support them without being disloyal to their club. Which is a good thing particularly in Japanese corporate culture. I would like in time for Japan to host as many as 3 franchises that use the Top League as its base. From my search the Top League is largely centred around three cities in Tokyo, Osaka and Fukuoka. Which would be the road map I'd be using.

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  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLR View Post
    Spartan. What about the NRL and AFL? They seem pretty successful on the way they do things. Super Rugby with its province system? Not so much. If there are enough teams from Japan in the GRR down the track everyone is represented and we get the tradition and rivalries that have been built for years. Just like every other successful league.

    WCRugger. You keep ignoring the point. Top League teams have never played in Super Rugby. It's like comparing NRC Force to Super Rugby/GRR Force. Do the Force overnight become an unsuccessful team through magic or is it because of the greater importance put on the international, seemingly more important competition?
    I don't think the province system is the major issue. Lack of promotion, investment, strategic initiative or just general business sense have all had a much greater impact on the Aus SR franchises. Which is what they actually are.

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