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Thread: Australian rugby outstripped by rival sports as Super Rugby struggles for visibility

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by WCRugger View Post
    There is a calculation involved. Similar to the one they use for polling which is a thoroughly researched and recognised science. Data Science. But that probably won't be good enough for Spartan. Who strikes me as someone who runs around with their hands over their ears screaming 'FAKE NEWS, FAKE NEWS' whenever presented with facts he doesn't like.
    Spartan may be susceptible to that.


    However, it doesn't mean you're 100% right, or he's 100% wrong.

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  2. #32
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    What's happened in the A-League is the games are being sold to watch this season for $17 a month live streamed. It's on multiple platforms too.

    People are dumping their old skool expensive Foxtel subscriptions. That's not just for soccer fans, it's viewers of all kinds - rugby fans included. I can guarantee that there posters in this thread who have done just that.

    Bu-bye Fox. Foxtel know it too, which is why they're getting more into this streaming caper themselves. It's their way forward now.

    Streaming may be the A-League's future, but is it enough to pay the bills?

    Mike Tuckerman: 1st November, 2018

    The news that the A-League’s TV ratings are way down should come as no surprise to anyone with a passing interest in football and a mobile phone.

    Let’s start this discussion with some stone-cold reality. Television is no longer king, and companies that continue to base revenue projections on outdated business models are heading towards a future of increasingly diminishing returns.

    It’s all well and good for networks to want to charge top dollar for advertising, but the reality is that substantially fewer viewers are watching linear TV in 2018 than when the A-League first kicked off in 2005.

    So for A-League boss Greg O’Rourke to claim he’s “surprised” by a 30 per cent drop in the number of viewers watching the A-League on Fox Sports this season, and that his organisation was “going to dig a little bit deeper” to find out why, smacks of basing the metrics on old-world realities.

    There’s no mystery here.

    When presented with the opportunity to stream the A-League through Telstra’s new My Football Live app, many fans took the opportunity to cut the cord and cancel their Foxtel subscription.

    ... yada yada yada ...



    People are still watching the A-League, but through different modes. (AAP Image/Brendan Esposito)

    The A-League’s current broadcast deal still has five years left to run, and while some club officials think the rights were actually worth more than the approximately $45 million per season Fox Sports is currently paying, it remains to be seen whether those sorts of figures are achievable on the back of streaming revenues.

    ... blah blah blah...

    Read more: https://www.theroar.com.au/2018/11/0...pay-the-bills/

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  3. #33
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    Internet streams are easily the most accurate way to identify viewer numbers. The server can identify the exact number of connections and even geolocate ip.

    It gets a little confused when subnet ting, but most streams would run direct.

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    C'mon the

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIGS20 View Post
    Internet streams are easily the most accurate way to identify viewer numbers. The server can identify the exact number of connections and even geolocate ip.

    It gets a little confused when subnet ting, but most streams would run direct.
    Correct.

    Do you have any soccer figures for Optus/Telstra apps, etc, though?

    Even Premier League ones would be an indicator, been going for a while longer.


    Out of interest, some old skool Pay TV numbers here

    A-League season average on Fox Sports:

    2005-2006 – 42,054
    2006-2007 – 55,465
    2007-2008 – 69,745
    2008-2009 – 63,792
    2009-2010 – 54,018
    2010-2011 – 44,968
    2011-2012 – 65,789
    2012-2013 – 74,659
    2013-2014 – 65,109
    2014-2015 – 59,749
    2015-2016 – 55,193
    2016-2017 – 63,422
    2017-2018 – 51,169

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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiap View Post
    What's happened in the A-League is the games are being sold to watch this season for $17 a month live streamed. It's on multiple platforms too.

    People are dumping their old skool expensive Foxtel subscriptions. That's not just for soccer fans, it's viewers of all kinds - rugby fans included. I can guarantee that there posters in this thread who have done just that.

    Bu-bye Fox. Foxtel know it too, which is why they're getting more into this streaming caper themselves. It's their way forward now.

    Streaming may be the A-League's future, but is it enough to pay the bills?

    Mike Tuckerman: 1st November, 2018

    The news that the A-League’s TV ratings are way down should come as no surprise to anyone with a passing interest in football and a mobile phone.

    Let’s start this discussion with some stone-cold reality. Television is no longer king, and companies that continue to base revenue projections on outdated business models are heading towards a future of increasingly diminishing returns.

    It’s all well and good for networks to want to charge top dollar for advertising, but the reality is that substantially fewer viewers are watching linear TV in 2018 than when the A-League first kicked off in 2005.

    So for A-League boss Greg O’Rourke to claim he’s “surprised” by a 30 per cent drop in the number of viewers watching the A-League on Fox Sports this season, and that his organisation was “going to dig a little bit deeper” to find out why, smacks of basing the metrics on old-world realities.

    There’s no mystery here.

    When presented with the opportunity to stream the A-League through Telstra’s new My Football Live app, many fans took the opportunity to cut the cord and cancel their Foxtel subscription.

    ... yada yada yada ...



    People are still watching the A-League, but through different modes. (AAP Image/Brendan Esposito)

    The A-League’s current broadcast deal still has five years left to run, and while some club officials think the rights were actually worth more than the approximately $45 million per season Fox Sports is currently paying, it remains to be seen whether those sorts of figures are achievable on the back of streaming revenues.

    ... blah blah blah...

    Read more: https://www.theroar.com.au/2018/11/0...pay-the-bills/
    This has been discussed on another forum. The My Football Live App content is supplied by Foxtel. As for whether those revenues are possible off streaming alone at the moment. Not for the FFA. Most of any of the revenues derived from the platform would go toward the supplier of the content which is both Telstra and Foxtel.

    And it's not like Foxtel is unaware of the streaming movement. Kayo is their answer and it's pretty good. Whether the FFA like it or not they will remain a significant player for a while to come and the fall away in the ratings will impact upon their ability to demand TV deals that they believe they are worth.

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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by WCRugger View Post
    This has been discussed on another forum.
    Are you Moses bringing down news carved in stone from the mountain to share with the unwashed?

    The discussion here is on TWF. Also, people do read other forums, y'know. Some even for longer than you.

    It's not like Kayo is a secret. Just sayin'

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  7. #37
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    There doesn't appear to be any official stats from any of the streaming apps or providers. They seem unwilling to share the data publicly and simply don't! This is the key as I assume they provide this data when negotiating how much to buy the rights for with the governing bodies and keep it from other providers or TV networks to gain the upper hand in these negotiations. It probably helps foxtel outbid everyone else each year knowing truely how many people tune into their streaming services when other networks and providers just see the TV ratings and assume the product is all doom and gloom and bid significantly less. I personally have never had a foxtel box for the last 8 or so years, I've even streamed it through the xbox app at one stage which I doubt is even recorded anywhere if it still even works.

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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIGS20 View Post
    Internet streams are easily the most accurate way to identify viewer numbers. The server can identify the exact number of connections and even geolocate ip.

    It gets a little confused when subnet ting, but most streams would run direct.
    The problem is this isn't published and they rely or some calculated method of measuring streams through the OzTam services in areas that already probably have a foxtel box in their house.. most people who stream target specific sports and given streams are cheaper alternatives and most rugby fans only have fox for rugby they have turned to streams in proportionately higher numbers

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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiap View Post
    Are you Moses bringing down news carved in stone from the mountain to share with the unwashed?

    The discussion here is on TWF. Also, people do read other forums, y'know. Some even for longer than you.

    It's not like Kayo is a secret. Just sayin'
    I was talking directly to you who I know has seen those discussions. Simple as that. Kayo not being a secret. Neither is the Football App. But that doesn't account for the fall away in viewership for the A-League.

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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by WCRugger View Post
    I was talking directly to you who I know has seen those discussions. Simple as that. Kayo not being a secret. Neither is the Football App. But that doesn't account for the fall away in viewership for the A-League.
    No need to tell me that Foxtel is aware of streaming then, when I already wrote this in my post you quoted.

    But thanks for the Kayo heads up. Good to know.

    With respect to the bolded, how much does it account for ... what are your numbers?

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    Last edited by Kiap; 24-02-19 at 13:01.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiap View Post
    No need to tell me that Foxtel is aware of streaming then, when I already wrote this in my post you quoted.

    But thanks for the Kayo heads up. Good to know.

    With respect to the bolded, how much does it account for ... what are your numbers?
    What's the difference between all of the other football codes in terms of League's and the A-League? Even SR. They are the quality league's of there kind. Last I saw the A-League is the 99th. Add to that there's plenty of access to higher quality leagues and it's a hard sell.

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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiap View Post
    No need to tell me that Foxtel is aware of streaming then, when I already wrote this in my post you quoted.

    But thanks for the Kayo heads up. Good to know.

    With respect to the bolded, how much does it account for ... what are your numbers?
    Finding out how many people are using the app will take some digging. You cannot use downloads as there's a high turnover rate. Most apps only retain at best between 3-5% of total downloads with only the really big ones reaching the 40% mark.

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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by WCRugger View Post
    Finding out how many people are using the app will take some digging.
    Yep. This is my exact point: You don't know dollar one.

    And, as John Q. Citizen, you can't readily find out.

    The data is easy enough for the stream provider to collect, however. It's just not publicly available.

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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiap View Post
    Yep. This is my exact point: You don't know dollar one.

    And, as John Q. Citizen, you can't readily find out.

    The data is easy enough for the stream provider to collect, however. It's just not publicly available.

    The Telstra deal is part of the current TV deal between the FFA and Foxtel (Telstra owns 35% of Foxtel). So the $ are out there for everyone to see in the current deal.

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  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by WCRugger View Post
    The Telstra deal is part of the current TV deal between the FFA and Foxtel (Telstra owns 35% of Foxtel). So the $ are out there for everyone to see in the current deal.
    I'm struggling to follow you, you aren't making alot of sense so I'll break it down for you...

    You said the OzTam TV ratings are accurate and based on sound scientific analysis- I dispute this because...

    They don't accurately record streams and more than likely record the streams from people who already have OzTam boxes which means they would hardly use their complimentary free Foxtel Go streaming service which comes with the Foxtel IQ box free compared to people who have paid specifically for streaming services eg. FOXTEL GO, FOXTEL NOW and KAYOSPORTS, also as others have mentioned specialist apps for specialist sports eg. ALeague etc. Which means the data they scientifically extrapolate for streaming isn't very accurate at all as it doesn't account for a specific majority of people signed up specifically for the streaming services to watch their sport of choice eg. Rugby fans which most only use the streaming app for their one sport of choice hence why they have given up on Foxtel IQ and use streaming.

    The TV ratings you have provided through OzTam in no way reflect the streaming figures and therefore don't accurate represent figures for sport in general. We know foxtel, optus and other streaming providers keep this data confidential which means its most likely used for bidding purposes and the data is held dearly by the app/ stream providers which means you don't have the figures and never will have the figures so you can never definitively prove the viewing numbers for sport generally including SuperRugby and A league!

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