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Thread: The Call To Arms to Save Australian Rugby

  1. #76
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    I think trust is an endangered species.

    I do know that across Australia we all agree on one thing and that is the game is in trouble and the current Admin is broken.

    So... we can continue bitching and moaning and digging up "he said...they said..." and leave everything as they are while we complain, or we can roll up our sleeves and get started...

    No one has answers to every persons' questions , so we can also look at Pappy's letter and say " Ahhh...you've failed to address this issue...or You haven't proposed anything that helps us...or last time you spoke on this subject you rubbished us...or...." And we can all keep that line going and keep the current the broken system while we tear down every proposal, because the last bloke cheated on us.

    All Papworth is saying: the current admin has lost the support of grass roots and he with a few others are prepared to roll up their sleeves and try to create a vehicle for change.

    So... I say once again there is no detail in his letter, there cannot be...he doesn't attempt to cover every detail...if you want all of the detail before deciding if you'll buy into it, then you'll be waiting a long time for a volume of 1000's of pages...

    Alternatively you can contribute and lobby for a fair voice, a fair hearing and be part of making up the detail.

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    Last edited by Hansie; 04-10-18 at 07:47. Reason: grammar

  2. #77
    Legend Contributor Alison's Avatar
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    Proudly Western Australian; Proudly supporting Western Australian rugby

  3. #78
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    Hansie, it's fine to talk about us being trusting, but you, more than anyone here, knows the shit misplaced trust can get us into.

    I'm not saying that we shouldn't go with pappys mob, I'm just saying they shouldn't get our support without transparency and ironclad contracts.

    Just because you don't trust him doesn't mean you can't deal with him

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    C'mon the

  4. #79
    Veteran SNOB's Avatar
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    My Enemies enemy is my friend!
    With the state of the FURA Im happy to go with any other option. Agreed we dont know all the details but nor does anyone else yet!
    We have got WSR so we really have a foot in two camps.
    Anything has got to be an improvement on the clusterf@ck we are currently lumbered with.

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    May the FORCE be with you!

  5. #80
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    thought out aloud..as the Force are a professional outfit, has Twiggy been pushing for them to be given a vote as well, similar to the Super teams?

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  6. #81
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    Indeed, Gigs. That, and listening to what is actually said rather than hearing what we'd like/ought to have been said, reading contracts for how they could be interpreted rather than what we'd like them to mean, assuming things are said/written for a reason and questioning what that reason might be. If nothing else has been learned, I would hope it was that.

    With respect to this, you can only judge people by what they say and do. Everything they have ever said and done points to them believing that they own Australian rugby and there is little or no place for WA in that other than perhaps as a supplier of young talent to Eastern States schools. It would be beyond stupid to believe they have suddenly had a road to Damascus moment without some concrete and incontrovertible proof, just because we would really like that to be true. They are good rugby men, but that does not in any way guarantee that they are good men or that their version of "good" includes WA.

    Proceed by all means, but with extreme caution. And only if you genuinely believe you will materially affect the outcome. Because involvement will inherently mean ownership of the outcome, like it or not.

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  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by SNOB View Post
    My Enemies enemy is my friend!
    No, history is rife with examples of your enemies enemy being an even bigger enemy of yours down the track. Ask the yanks, who have a long record of fighting terrorists that they created and armed...

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  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hansie View Post
    So... Pappy says every state should be invited to partake on an equal basis in being part of his steering committee.
    Hansie, Papworth hasn't said that each state gets an equal voice; what he has said is just the opposite of that:
    If the clubs provide the imprimatur it is most likely that in the inaugural year the governance will consist of one representative from each of Queensland, NSW, NSW Country, ACT and WA plus Brett Papworth. Thereafter democratic elections will determine the composition.
    So NSW gets 3 votes (NSW, NSW Country, Papworth), and everyone else gets 3 votes (Qld, ACT, WA). That's assuming one of Qld, ACT & WA acts on behalf of Vic, SA, Tas and NT.

    OK, NSW does produce more rugby players, but if the steering committee was really one from each state and territory, and maybe Papworth himself as a non-voting chair then the decidedly less NSW bias in the committee would be more palatable. (ie, more the senate than the house of representatives!)

    Also, this steering committee is setting itself up as the de-facto board of Australian rugby. The letter talks about democratic elctions "thereafter", with no timescale. Earlier in the thread I said that the steering committee's role should be to set up a transparent way of electing a new board, and that members of the steering committee should be barred from serving on the board for at least the first elected term. This idea behind this is that it should result in a more stable structure than if the steering committee were waved straight onto the new board.

    The steering committee should also set a timescale on this (eg, 1 year) and if they fail to achieve this the committee must step down and be replaced. The danger is that the steering committee, currently full of unelected, self-selecting 'old rugby heads' becomes as rigid and one-eyed as the current board.

    I'm not averse to changing the way rugby is run in Australia, but given the decidedly pro-Shute-Shield-over-everything-else stance of some of the names selected for the steering committee, I don't think it's naive to be wanting to be interested, but more interested in hearing more.

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  9. #84
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    1.6 The committee considers there are two main reasons for undertaking the
    inquiry. First, the inquiry offered an opportunity for members of rugby union clubs
    across Australia to place on record their concerns regarding the process the ARU
    worked through to arrive at the decision it did and their concerns about the ARU's
    stewardship of the game more broadly, particularly with a view to ensuring the game
    becomes sustainable into the future.
    This was in the Senate Inquiry report after the RA questioned the need for an Inquiry. The bolded bit is the key thing Papworth and co are looking in to.

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    https://omny.fm/shows/the-alan-jones-breakfast-show/cameron-clyne

    Link to Senate Report http://www.aph.gov.au/senate_ca

    https://www.change.org/p/rugby-australia-petition-for-cameron-clyne-to-resign-as-chairman-of-the-rugby-australia-board

  10. #85
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    Every Dictator has promised Democratic Elections at "some time"

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    Last edited by travelling_gerry; 04-10-18 at 14:44.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by travelling_gerry View Post
    Every Dictator has promised Democratic Elections at "some time"
    Is that why lots of communist places are called "Democratic Peoples Republic"?

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  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheikh View Post
    Hansie, Papworth hasn't said that each state gets an equal voice; what he has said is just the opposite of that:

    So NSW gets 3 votes (NSW, NSW Country, Papworth), and everyone else gets 3 votes (Qld, ACT, WA).
    That is a real big assumption that NSW and NSW Country will agree with Papworth.

    Papworth is not the NSW messiah. Most here think he is full of shit.

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    I stopped waiting for the light at the end of tunnel and lit that bitch up myself!

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by travelling_gerry View Post
    Every Dictator has promised Democratic Elections at "some time"
    But the one thing Dictatorships do have in common - they are being led by DICKS

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    I stopped waiting for the light at the end of tunnel and lit that bitch up myself!

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exile View Post
    That is a real big assumption that NSW and NSW Country will agree with Papworth. Papworth is not the NSW messiah. Most here think he is full of shit.
    We'll I guess it all depends upon who pappy anoints as the representative for NSW Country. I'm sure hell be able to find a friendly face SOMEWHERE in nsw

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    C'mon the

  15. #90
    Champion MI5_Dog's Avatar
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    As things stand it's not a true representation of 'grass roots' rugby.
    Why can't Vic, NT, SA and Tas all have representatives? Why do NSW need two? or 3?
    Why does Papworth have to be involved at all?

    No point in putting out a grease fire with petrol

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