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Thread: Super Rugby and the eradication of the Force has been a complete failure.

  1. #31
    Veteran Sheikh's Avatar
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    Also, the ITM (Mitre 10) Cup and Currie Cup are professional with sides which exist year-round. Players might not get paid much, but as I understand it, you get a 'training' wage which enables you to hold down a normal job and train year-round with oversight from the coaches.

    The NRC sides only really exist from August to November; outside of those times the players play amateur state comps (Shute Shield, John I Dent, Pindan, etc). Unless you happen to be a member of a SR side or their EPS you don't have access to pro-coaches; and training is done around work commitments.

    As most pro athletes will tell you, self-coaching rarely works as well as having a professional to push you (with one or two notable exceptions, eg, David Pocock!) and pro coaches will work on both skills and fitness, whereas if you have limited coaching access, you tend to concentrate on fitness far more.

    NZ & SA's 3rd tier comps not only identify talent, but get them ready such that the step-up to Super Rugby is a step rather than a leap. Players who standout at the NRC tend to still need a season or so to find their feet at SR level as there's still a large gulf between the two. That gulf has reduced as the NRC goes on, but given the comparative lack of resources available for NRC players out-of-season, I doubt that they'll ever close the gap as much as the Mitre 10 or Currie Cup have.

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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheikh View Post
    Also, the ITM (Mitre 10) Cup and Currie Cup are professional with sides which exist year-round. Players might not get paid much, but as I understand it, you get a 'training' wage which enables you to hold down a normal job and train year-round with oversight from the coaches.

    The NRC sides only really exist from August to November; outside of those times the players play amateur state comps (Shute Shield, John I Dent, Pindan, etc). Unless you happen to be a member of a SR side or their EPS you don't have access to pro-coaches; and training is done around work commitments.

    As most pro athletes will tell you, self-coaching rarely works as well as having a professional to push you (with one or two notable exceptions, eg, David Pocock!) and pro coaches will work on both skills and fitness, whereas if you have limited coaching access, you tend to concentrate on fitness far more.

    NZ & SA's 3rd tier comps not only identify talent, but get them ready such that the step-up to Super Rugby is a step rather than a leap. Players who standout at the NRC tend to still need a season or so to find their feet at SR level as there's still a large gulf between the two. That gulf has reduced as the NRC goes on, but given the comparative lack of resources available for NRC players out-of-season, I doubt that they'll ever close the gap as much as the Mitre 10 or Currie Cup have.
    I hope that one day the NRC can reach this scale. For now though I am glad that RA us recognised it canít afford a full blown professional program.

    I hope to see it get there in my lifetime though, really enjoy the NRC and getting a glimpse at the new talent coming through

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  3. #33
    Immortal GIGS20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bakkies View Post
    which suggests there should be some kind of merging of the two entities to create one strong third-tier competition, perhaps co-owned by Rugby Australia and Forrest.
    No chance Mr Harris, why the fuck would Twiggy choose to give half of a business that he has developed independently in a competitive environment directly to the competitor who so unfairly treated his employees? He's not made his money by throwing good businesses into the garbage you know!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bakkies View Post
    When RA was bringing the axe down on the Forceís neck, Forrest emerged as the franchiseís financial benefactor, but it was too late in the game politically for him to save them as a Super Rugby team.
    True, it was too late to save the Force as a super rugby side in Mid 2006, after that point, the governing body was just looking for reasons to justify the decision.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bakkies View Post
    With Sanzaar re-negotiating its broadcast deal to take Super Rugby beyond 2020, RA should be in discussions with Forrest about creating a new competition to support the professional game in Australia. RA rejected Forrestís bid to save the Force as a Super Rugby franchise, but he could still end up the saviour of the competition, at least in Australia.
    I hope to hell he doesn't take the bait of being called the saviour of Rugby, that's just small-minded broke twats hoping to find a rich benefactor willing to refill the trough. Superficial rugby is rotten to the core and the best move Twiggy could make is to euthanase it quickly!

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    C'mon the

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    Veteran chibi's Avatar
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    Forrest getting together with other like-minded billionaire rugby fans in the Asia-Pacific, creating a new premiership, with FTA and proper marketing, that's what I'd be interested in looking at. South Africa and New Zealand already have domestic competitions they can play in.

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    Japan and the Pacific Islands for Aussie Super 9's!

    Let's have one of these in WA! Click this link: Saitama Super Arena - New Perth Stadium?

  5. #35
    Player terrycobner's Avatar
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    Thanks but no thanks RA. Please Mr Forrest do not bail out the RA. Please concentrate on the success that will be WSR!

    Andrew Forrest will he speaking tonight at Hale school on the future of rugby in wa. Is anyone going?

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    There are some facts we need to look at that will allow us to stop trying to copy NZ and SA.

    Australia has the most competitive Summer Sporting Calendar.

    Australia has far greater distances to travel for interstate matches. In both NZ and SA a team can sleep in their own bed when matches are played in big centres. A team can do a day trip ( if they want) from Dunedin to Hamilton and back or Cape Town to Pretoria and back.

    Rugby Culture in Australia is still split between Public and Private schools, In NZ and SA there is no such divide. SA does have a divide between racial groups but they still have huge numbers playing Rugby.

    So, the first two points cost $$$, the second commitment and passion.

    Until Rugby participants at all levels work collaboratively and transparently in Australia, unlikely we will ever compete long term against NZ and SA.

    All of this starts at grassroots and starts here. As long as Community give the cold shoulder to the Force, as long as Community fight each other on baseless rumours, as long as "traditional" clubs stop aspirational clubs from competing, as long as some in community "blame" all their woes on outsiders , I can tell you Rugby in WA will spend an awful long time in the wilderness.

    The game is bigger than any country ( did the game lose anything whilst SA was in the wilderness?) the game is bigger than any club ( look at the LIONS recent success) The game is bigger than any team ( look at AB's in World cups '91, '95, '99, '30, '07 and even Wallabies since '99) The game is bigger than any individual ( just look at demise of John Eales).

    Until we get on track in our own back yard we don't have much credibility telling the Eastern States how to suck eggs. Just as we proved the Future Force, we can prove that we can collaboratively grow the game.

    Let's create a West Australian way, by not copying others and we can lead Australian Rugby into greatness. It can be done.

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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by terrycobner View Post
    Thanks but no thanks RA. Please Mr Forrest do not bail out the RA. Please concentrate on the success that will be WSR!

    Andrew Forrest will he speaking tonight at Hale school on the future of rugby in wa. Is anyone going?
    It was a great night. Andrew and Hodgo did not let too many real secrets out of the bag last night. I think they said the big announcements will be made on the 18th Aug. They have 12-15 teams chasing the 7 remaining WSR slots, with multiple very keen Japanese teams. Hint of a side from NZ.

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    Champion andrewM's Avatar
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    that does sound interesting! Imagine the cred having a kiwi team would bring - would shut up a couple of Roarers and FB posters

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    Champion SPaRTAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewM View Post
    that does sound interesting! Imagine the cred having a kiwi team would bring - would shut up a couple of Roarers and FB posters
    Yeah it would be fantastic. My vote would be Taranaki.

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    Champion SPaRTAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSJ View Post
    It was a great night. Andrew and Hodgo did not let too many real secrets out of the bag last night. I think they said the big announcements will be made on the 18th Aug. They have 12-15 teams chasing the 7 remaining WSR slots, with multiple very keen Japanese teams. Hint of a side from NZ.
    12-15 teams is a hell of alot, maybe the should just setup a super rugby sized comp but without all the stupid conferences and format eg. The lack of a round robin etc.

    Im amazed at the interest though. Sounds like the first season will be a hell of a block buster, they need to secure that NZL asap as it will bring in ratings and as Andrew said bring in much needed credibility.

    I like the direction this is moving.

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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hansie View Post
    Rugby Culture in Australia is still split between Public and Private schools, In NZ and SA there is no such divide. SA does have a divide between racial groups but they still have huge numbers playing Rugby.
    Hansie, this split is so deeply embedded, particularly in the Rugby cultures of NSW and QLD, that the best drill & blast engineers and all of the ANFO stocks in Australia probably could not dislodge it.

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  12. #42
    Veteran Sheikh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPaRTAN View Post
    12-15 teams is a hell of alot, maybe the should just setup a super rugby sized comp but without all the stupid conferences and format eg. The lack of a round robin etc.

    Im amazed at the interest though. Sounds like the first season will be a hell of a block buster, they need to secure that NZL asap as it will bring in ratings and as Andrew said bring in much needed credibility.

    I like the direction this is moving.
    JSJ said 12-15 teams chasing the 7 remaining WSR slots - so WSR will be 8 teams (Force + 7). That makes for a 14-game home & away season. Plenty of rugby for me, and I'd rather have home & away than a 15-team 14-game season with alternating home and away each season.

    I'm not that surprised by the interest - there was very high initial interest when Forrest announced the possibility of a new league, and while we've heard very little the people Mindaroo were talking to included businessmen who are used to deals being sorted out behind closed doors and only announcing something when the deal's signed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheikh View Post
    JSJ said 12-15 teams chasing the 7 remaining WSR slots - so WSR will be 8 teams (Force + 7). That makes for a 14-game home & away season. Plenty of rugby for me, and I'd rather have home & away than a 15-team 14-game season with alternating home and away each season.

    I'm not that surprised by the interest - there was very high initial interest when Forrest announced the possibility of a new league, and while we've heard very little the people Mindaroo were talking to included businessmen who are used to deals being sorted out behind closed doors and only announcing something when the deal's signed.
    Yes, they were talking of 8 teams (including Force), starting at the beginning of March and playing through to end of June, with semifinals and a final.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JSJ View Post
    Yes, they were talking of 8 teams (including Force), starting at the beginning of March and playing through to end of June, with semifinals and a final.
    What do we do for the rest of the year?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BLR View Post
    What do we do for the rest of the year?
    NRC

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