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Thread: Official Alan Jones thread

  1. #511
    Rookie WF2404's Avatar
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    Can anyone post Alan's latest Australian article - RA’s road to abyss in Folau saga
    Thanks!!

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  2. #512
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    Rugby Australia takes Shorten’s road to oblivion in hellish Folau saga

    Alan Jones

    Israel Folau was sacked by Rugby Australia this week. Picture: Getty Images
    12:00AM May 24, 2019
    429 Comments
    Those running Rugby Australia have become the Bill Shortens of sport — talking a self-indulgent game, buoyed by their army of media apologists but dramatically removed from reality.
    I suppose, though, if you only talk to yourself, you will always enjoy full support.
    But if Rugby Australia, like Bill Shorten, cared to talk to the battlers and strugglers and volunteers about the Israel Folau fiasco, they might learn how far off the mark they are as they stare into a Rugby abyss.
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    I have written several stories for this newspaper. They have enjoyed almost three million “views”. If you add the responses to those on my Facebook page, the total of comments is almost 50,000.
    But in the narcissistic world of rugby administration, Rugby Australia don’t care about people such as Michael who writes: “I’m a fornicator, idolater, an atheist so I have three times the reason to be offended … but I’m not. Lighten up everyone”.
    Hugh says: “For once I agree with Jones. I wonder if players have been lent on or encouraged to side with the boss.”
    Andrew: “Well said Mr Jones. Freedom of expression is a right. Rugby’s merely a game. Unfortunately no longer played in heaven because playing it there might upset someone. Izzy is not claiming he’s bigger than the game. Keep up the fight, Izzy.”
    Anthony: “For more than 50 years I’ve supported both codes of rugby. Unfortunately, now, I couldn’t care less about union, the Reds or the Wallabies.”
    Tom: “Totally agree and have been telling them, and that is the whole board, the CEO and the coaching staff should step down immediately. We need people who have a vision and a passion for the game and who will take time to develop the code instead of sitting on leather seats … bring Twiggy in to fix it up.”
    Bernard: “I suspect that Rugby Australia are only reluctantly taking this action because they fear they’ll be labelled politically incorrect if they do not and consequently will be vilified by the thought and speech police. Folau is merely stating what he believes and he is entitled to publicly inform others of his beliefs. Even though I do not accept his beliefs, I consider that he’s performing a valuable service by informing me of his position on these matters, otherwise I would never know where he was coming from.”
    Josh: “Who are all these outraged and offended, apart from (Alan) Joyce and a few serial activists? I’ve spoken to over 50 different people over the last couple of days … listened to multiple radio stations, watched a bit of TV. And not an offended person to be seen or heard anywhere … talk about a massive over-reaction by Rugby Australia and the coach Michael Cheika. These people are not fit for the job and they are the only people that need to be terminated and shown the door.”.
    Well despite all of this, Israel Folau has had his contract terminated. The three-person panel found he had committed a “high level breach of his contract” for quoting the Bible on social media.
    He has now rightly decided to bypass the appeal process. The matter will now go to the fair dinkum courts. I repeat what I’ve said many times.
    It is not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing with Israel. It’s a matter of understanding and respecting his views, views that are shared by many other Polynesian footballing Christians.
    We may think the views are antiquated. We may find difficulty with them. But if you don’t believe in heaven and hell, then no one will go to hell, so you can’t be offended.
    But, if you believe in heaven and hell then the authority is the Bible so you surely can’t be offended by someone quoting from the world’s most read text.
    Of course I’ve spoken to Folau. Often. I am not the only one tired of the erosion of free speech in this country.
    I’ve had people write to me since the election on Saturday to say how disturbed they are to think that in the lead-up to the election they were frightened to express a view because they knew they would be vilified.
    Rugby Australia talks about diversity and inclusiveness. What they really mean is uniformity and exclusion for someone with whom they disagree.
    We have reached a dark place.
    In a recent sermon Folau said he was resigned to having his contract terminated and with it the associated loss of income. He said it was the work of Satan that was tempting him to bow to pressures and take his social media posts down, which could have saved him from a high-level breach.
    He said: “There have been many opportunities to potentially make the situation a little bit easier for me … I could go back and play the game … but the way Satan works is he offers you the stuff that could look good to the eye and make you feel comfortable and if you follow that path, all the worries and troubles will go away … but it’s always the will of God that comes first.”
    It is beyond disgraceful that a young man can be “wiped out” simply for holding such views.
    He said: “Such an opportunity had presented itself. It crossed my mind.” But as he told me, it would mean he would be in breach of his faith.
    We read the hypocrisy of rugby administrators “reaching out” to Pacific players. What does that mean? Encouraging them to shut up, keep quiet, practise their faith behind closed doors.
    I have to say I feel some sympathy for Raelene Castle. Surely she works under the direction of the board and the chairman, Cameron Clyne. They must therefore have approved of her decision to dismiss Folau.
    “Where,” as one writer asks, “is that bold hero, the chairman? He should be standing beside her accepting his share of the odium and the slings and arrows of dis gusted, disenchanted former Rugby supporters and ticket-buyers.”
    Clyne, being Clyne, has become invisible.
    What on earth does Castle mean when she says, “I’ve communicated directly with the players to make it clear Rugby Australia fully supports their rights to their own beliefs and nothing that has happened has changed that. But when we’re talking about inclusiveness in our game we’re talking about respecting differences …”
    That could only be the language of someone utterly confused by the decision she’s taken.
    “Respecting differences” means excommunicating Folau because he holds a view different to the Board of Rugby Australia and its sponsor.
    A Polynesian Christian apparently can’t publicly express his Biblical views about sin and hell.
    Well may we ask what other views are they not free to express.
    Or is the sacking because the views were expressed publicly. Would Folau have been sacked if he had expressed the views in church?
    I made the point last week that article 18 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, which came into force in 1976, provides: “Everyone should have the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion. This right shall include freedom … either individually or in community with others, and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in worship, observance, practice and teaching”.
    Folau has been denied that right; to say nothing of a sponsor embracing a commercial arrangement with another airline whose country has an appalling human rights record in relation to women and homosexuality.
    I have made the point before that Mark Latham, recently elected to the NSW parliament, will be moving a motion at the next sitting to enshrine in law among other provisions that the parliament “supports the basic human rights of NSW workers to express political, cultural and religious opinions in their private time, away from their place of work without suffering employment penalties and sanctions”.
    But more importantly, Latham makes the point that I have made many times, that no entity, in particular Rugby Australia, should be free to lease sporting grounds and facilities unless it can ensure that all residents are eligible to participate in whatever sporting code or game and that no one should be excluded because of their political, cultural or religious opinions.
    Indeed as long-time rugby writer Spiro Zavos pointed out recently: “Point 1.3 of the code of conduct for players says, ‘Treat everyone equally, fairly and with dignity regardless of gender or gender identity, sexual orientation, ethnicity, cultural or religious background, age or disability …”
    It is in fact Rugby Australia who have violated the code of conduct in respect to their treatment of Folau.
    But on the same day that Folau was banned from rugby for life by RA, who would have you believe it had something to do with “values”, the Test hooker Tolu Latu was charged with drink driving, allegedly slumped behind the wheel of his car at 4.30am, driving on a suspended licence. He played for the Waratahs at the weekend.
    At the same time, another Australian, Nick Kyrgios, swore, abused an umpire, abused other tennis players and threw a chair onto the court in the Italian Open.
    He got a piddling fine but he certainly wasn’t kicked out forever.
    Perhaps that makes sense to some. It makes no sense to me.
    Well, where to from here?
    Termination now allows Folau to challenge RA in court for breach of any number of laws. RA lose on two fronts — a palpable waste of money and a disgraceful waste of talent and a total erosion of trust in those who run the game.
    Over and over again members of the rugby family are saying that freedom of speech, freedom of religion and the freedom of grassroots rugby are cornerstones of Australian society.
    Is Rugby Australia going to impose its so-called code of conduct on all clubs, all players, volunteers and supporters? If so, how?
    Or only Folau.
    Does the brave and gifted Kurtley Beale get punished because he says he’d willingly play with Folau?
    Perhaps the final word belongs to another member of the rugby family, one of the many ignored fans. “Why does a guy who, with a punch, breaks another’s jaw get banned for six weeks and a guy who says something that others don’t like gets banned for life? I know there is a lot of power in words but this is ridiculous.”
    Amen to that, if I’m allowed to say that.

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  3. #513
    Veteran Sheikh's Avatar
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    As Alan says, "If you only talk to yourself, you'll always enjoy full support".

    It's not about the erosion of free speech, or the freedom of religion, as Alan Jones has banged on about for the last few weeks, it's about not posting a message which discriminates against a group who are already discriminated against in society.

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  4. #514
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    Alan Jones is a broken record.

    Probably how he keeps his job rabbiting the same old dribble to his listeners who eat up his bile.

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  5. #515
    Veteran valzc's Avatar
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    Alan has a short memory - 'the brave and gifted Kurtley Beale....?' Kurtley was lucky to get off so easily on has last few misdemeanours!

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  6. #516
    Immortal Contributor shasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by valzc View Post


    I have written several stories for this newspaper. And it's quite amazing. So far I have only addressed a couple of topics for as long as I can remember and Rupert keeps paying me to repeat myself ad nauseam. it's almost as good as being inside the tent at Rat's Arse. Almost.
    FIXED

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  7. #517
    Immortal Contributor The InnFORCEr's Avatar
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    If you don't follow Izzy on social media you should not have even been exposed to his thoughts and beliefs. It is the mass media and RA's own media unit that is responsible for enlightening the general public on his thoughts, they are the guilty party in all this. Anything sell a paper or get a click.

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  8. #518
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    Quote Originally Posted by The InnFORCEr View Post
    If you don't follow Izzy on social media you should not have even been exposed to his thoughts and beliefs. It is the mass media and RA's own media unit that is responsible for enlightening the general public on his thoughts, they are the guilty party in all this. Anything sell a paper or get a click.
    True! I don't follow Pocock as I don't agree with some of his views. Therefore I CHOOSE not to follow his posts nor be OFFENDED.

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  9. #519
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    Rugby Australia doing the bidding of QantasALAN JONES

    12:00AM JUNE 7, 2019 779 COMMENTS
    Politics is the resolution of conflict. By that definition, the politics of Australian rugby are worse than at any time in its history.

    There are two ways to resolve conflict. The first is to keep throwing bombs in the hope that the enemy can be obliterated. It is clear to Rugby Australia that that is their only strategy; any other requires brains.

    This was demonstrated by the evidence given by CEO Raelene Castle to the tribunal hearing into what is now known internationally as the Folau Affair.


    It is seemingly clear from her evidence that the issue wasn’t about Folau or rugby. Why else would a decision have been made about Folau’s rugby future before he even got to the tribunal?

    Castle told the tribunal that on the day Israel posted his religious views on social media, “I spoke with Mr Cheika … Mr Cheika’s view was that Mr Folau could not continue playing for the Wallabies.”

    Just what Castle wanted to hear. She could then ring Qantas, indeed her evidence to the tribunal indicated just that.

    As soon as the coach said Folau couldn’t continue to play, forget any tribunal, Castle stated: “That evening, I telephoned Ms Vanessa Hudson, chief customer officer at Qantas, knowing that the post would be very concerning to Qantas. Only days earlier, Rugby AU had commenced contract renewal negotiations for Qantas’ sponsorship of Rugby AU, the Wallabies and the men’s and women’s 7s teams. The post could not have come at a more sensitive time for Rugby AU’s commercial team. I told Ms Hudson that Rugby AU was taking Mr Folau’s post very seriously. I sent her a draft of the statement that Rugby AU planned to release the next day. Ms Hudson impressed on me that Qantas wished to see the matter resolved swiftly.”

    So there we are. Rugby Australia doing the bidding of Qantas.

    Don’t worry about the player or the long-term interests of the game and certainly don’t worry about the player’s rights.

    Just assure your sponsor that you are going to sack your best player for expressing his religious views outside the workplace.

    Don’t worry about reading first the Fair Work Act or the Australian Human Rights Commission Act.

    As senator Eric Abetz, a former federal employment minister, said this week: “Under the Fair Work Act it is expressly unlawful … to discriminate against an employee on the basis of their religion.” Queensland federal MP Bob Katter went further, indicating he was drafting “a resolution for an inquiry which will reveal whether partially government-owned sponsors of Rugby Australia were involved in terminating Israel Folau’s contract on the grounds of religious freedom”.

    Abetz has made it clear to the highly intelligent president of the Human Rights Commission commissioner Rosalind Croucher that it was “important that we clearly identify if, under the current law, an employer can sack an employee for expressing their religious beliefs on social media outside the workplace”.

    None of that appeared to worry Castle. Her mind was firmly fixed on the sponsors.

    Of course, sponsors are important. But an intelligent leader would accept the challenge of explaining rationally to a sponsor how the matter should be handled to accommodate sponsor, player and employer.

    Not difficult, unless of course, you are incapable of fashioning such a good strategy and jump at the sound of grapeshot when a sponsor starts firing away.

    After all, Castle did tell the tribunal: “Later on 11 April 2019 (the post was on April 10 and we hadn’t gone anywhere near a tribunal but Castle and Co had seemingly made up their mind) I called Ms Hudson from Qantas.

    “I updated her on the situation (remember, this is barely a day after the post and Folau’s goose is cooked) and told her that, confidentially, Rugby AU would be working towards a process to terminate Mr Folau’s contract and that Ms Hudson can share that position with Qantas chief executive Mr Alan Joyce. Ms Hudson texted me later that day saying that she had only shared the update with Mr Joyce and he was appreciative of the transparency and he said that a speedy resolution by Rugby AU was paramount.”

    That is described as Qantas calling the shots. By the way, somewhere in all of this there was a person involved whose title at Rugby Australia is “general manager of people and culture.”

    You couldn’t make it up.

    Because there seems very little intellectual clout within the administration of the game, Rugby Australia pushed the punitive button immediately, when calm, considered mediation could easily have prevailed.

    We are not dealing with a monster here. We are dealing with a gifted, modest, gentle, highly *religious Polynesian young man who would walk to the end of the Earth and back before hurting anyone.

    Yet, in recent days, he has had to cop headlines that he was prepared to offer Rugby Australia the chance to view all his future religious social media posts.

    That is rubbish. But you get the picture. Here is this money-hungry rugby player, prepared to do anything to hang on to his job.

    Rugby Australia have been briefing against Folau. How little do they know him? This is about his faith and his Bible.

    You and I might watch television at night. Hoping that Folau was comfortable with all this swimming around him, I asked him what he did at night. He said simply: “I read my Bible.”

    Yet he has to read that he was willing to undergo training with religious leaders. Again, presumably, to hang on to his job.

    Israel’s reply to me was simply: “Training? Why do I need training? This is what I believe.”

    I admire his simplicity, his courage and his faith.

    Of course, now this matter is in the hands of lawyers. Why wouldn’t it be? You see, the same Rugby Australia rules apply to parents, supporters, fans and everyone in the sport.

    Surely the code of conduct isn’t just going to be thrown at a high-profile player. Pages seven and eight apply to coaches. I have written previously, the Wallabies coach is in breach. Pages nine and 10 apply to administrators. I have written before that Castle is in breach.

    Page 11 applies to match officials. Page 12 applies to spectators/parents and fans. Pages 13 and 14 apply to “all other participants”.

    In relation to the use of social media, it says: “By all means share your positive experiences of rugby but do not use social media as a means to breach any of the expectations and requirements of you as a player (page six), as a coach (page seven), as an officer (page 10), as a match official (page 11), as a participant of rugby (page 13), contained in this code or in any union, club or competition rules and regulations.”

    So, will thousands of parents of young players and fans also face charges before a code of conduct committee (page 12) for expressing an opinion on their personal social media account, let alone in mainstream media, that is in conflict with the “expectations and requirements” of the RA board?

    As one of my correspondents, Patrick Byrne, points out, from an excellent book of his, Transgender: One Shade of Grey, what constitutes the breaching of “any of the expectations and requirements of you?”

    Does this mean expressing a view on social media about issues such as same sex marriage or transgender people playing rugby?

    As Byrne asks: “Will fans and parents expressing such views on their personal social media be brought before a code of conduct committee and banned from *attending rugby matches?”

    After all, 40 per cent of Australians voted for marriage as a union between a man and a woman.

    Are they to be silenced from expressing an opinion that could be taken to offend the board of Rugby Australia or the Qantas CEO?

    We are in dangerous territory here and the way the politics of the game are being played, there is no resolution in sight beyond expensive and embarrassing litigation. But it is clear the management of the game doesn’t care.

    You look at the game in England on the eve of a World Cup and it is flourishing.

    A full house at Twickenham as 80,000 supporters turned out to watch Saracens and Exeter go head to head in the English Premiership club final. Both teams put on a great show in a thrilling match.

    I am sure the talent was no better than that on display when the Brumbies recently won handsomely at home in Canberra. The difference is the turnstiles in Canberra barely turned: 6000 attended, if you counted some people twice.

    How is it that Saracens can get Will Skelton trimmed down and playing great rugby but the Wallabies and Waratahs can’t?

    But if you were Skelton, would you be rushing home to play for the Wallabies when the game in Australia is such a mess; when the demands of sponsors seem to drive the decision-making of the CEO and the chairman?

    Why would a talented Pacific island player turn his back on a trophy-winning club to make up the numbers in Australia?

    Politically, the worst thing you can say about an advanced democracy is that they are heading down the Argentinian road — that is the Peronist model where you spend money wildly that you haven’t got. Now the metaphor applies to Australian rugby.

    We are spending money we haven’t got, wasting it on massively expensive lawyers to prosecute, alienate and humiliate our best player.

    It’s time for the parasites to depart the field before the game in Australia resembles the Argentinian model, where most of our players will play in Europe because we won’t have the resources to keep even NSW and Queensland afloat.

    The game is being run by clowns and until we get rid of the clowns, the circus music will continue to play.

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  10. #520
    Immortal Contributor shasta's Avatar
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    You know you're on shaky ground when the three people ranting your defence of religious persecution are Mark Latham, Eric Abetz and Alan Jones. A stupid argument that is not even close ti the central issue. I'm pretty confident that what ever level of the judiciary finally decides this, they won't be hoodwinked by these mugs.

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  11. #521
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    You left out Barnaby Joyce who is the champion of traditional family values

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  12. #522
    Immortal Contributor shasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jargan83 View Post
    You left out Barnaby Joyce who is the champion of traditional family values
    Yeah I did. What a bloody palooka.

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  13. #523
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    Quote Originally Posted by shasta View Post
    You know you're on shaky ground when the three people ranting your defence of religious persecution are Mark Latham, Eric Abetz and Alan Jones. A stupid argument that is not even close ti the central issue. I'm pretty confident that what ever level of the judiciary finally decides this, they won't be hoodwinked by these mugs.

    The RA’s code of conduct won’t stand up against the law of the land particularly in NSW. You can’t sack someone based on religious beliefs and Folau knew he wouldn’t get a fair hearing from the RA so there was no point in appealing. Folau will have powerful financial backing.

    On the RA’s side you have low pockets, rank amateur bureaucrats, pathetic due diligence, uncle Cam and Raelene Castle. We all know about uncle Cam’s attitude towards the working man (he wasn’t even accepted by the Labor Party) and Raelene is terrible with contracts. I know who I would back. It took less than two minutes for Jones to destroy uncle Cam it was beautiful. Jones has fought for farmers and people fighting against injustice. He has also done a lot for Rugby in this country when it was struggling after the days of the woeful Wallabies.

    He got the Barbarians up to Lismore with the Classic Wallabies to raise money for flood victims who weren’t going to get compensated by the insurance companies. The RA didn’t even bother to promote it and alienated former test players. He also helped the Ward family who lost Lachlan tragically his brother Sam was awarded a Barbarians cap which is a rare honour for a Shute Shield player who hasn’t played professionally these days It just doesn’t suit the narrative in the mainstream press.

    A commenter on Jones’ latest article said that the RA has a LGBTIQ module on their assistant referees courses to advise candidates on how to be inclusive as a touch judge madness. What a waste of time and money.

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  14. #524
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    How does a touch judge do his/her/x's job any more or less inclusively?

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    C'mon the

  15. #525
    Immortal Contributor shasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bakkies View Post
    The RA’s code of conduct won’t stand up against the law of the land particularly in NSW. You can’t sack someone based on religious beliefs and Folau
    Like I said before (and I'm sure you get this), Folau's religious beliefs and his freedom to hold them are not at issue. It's how he chose to publish them after GIVING HIS WORD to his employer he would desist that is the issue - and IMO it's a clear cut issue of his responsibilities to his employer. If you choose to absorb the freedom of speech/religion red herrings that people like Latham & Co are throwing around, your welcome. At the moment I'll just agree to disagree and let the judiciary decide.

    P.S. Having said that, I will not be even a little surprised if it turns out Castle & Co can't demonstrate that Folau was clearly warned about his social media posts and accepted. But even so there is no definitive provision in the Fair Work Act that mandates this.

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    Last edited by shasta; 08-06-19 at 09:07.
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