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Thread: Official Alan Jones thread

  1. #481
    Immortal Contributor shasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SNOB View Post
    That brings in the assassination card!��
    Jeebers, I played the card about 10 posts back and we are still jibbering about politics - including the dude who gave it to me for talking about religion on a Rugby site.

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  2. #482
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    Quote Originally Posted by shasta View Post
    Jeebers, I played the card about 10 posts back and we are still jibbering about politics - including the dude who gave it to me for talking about religion on a Rugby site.
    Shasta, you gave me good advice of not to read or comment on all the Folau religious stuff if I found it boring. I took your advice mate.

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    Clearly not

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  4. #484
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    Israel Folau’s religious freedom the defining issue of our timeALAN JONES

    12:00AM MAY 3, 2019436 COMMENTS
    Just when you thought the administration of rugby could not get worse, it continues to be a sporting embarrassment.

    Does no one in a position of leadership understand the damage that is being done to the game as a result of the Israel Folau *affair?

    Who is going to be brave enough to put their hand up, even on the eve of this “tribunal” meeting tomorrow; or do we just keep digging the hole and burying the game?

    Let me say up front that Rugby Australia, the administration, can’t win.

    They have the most expensive legal advisers that money can buy. Surely they are telling Rugby Australia that this is unwinnable.

    RA may get some vicarious satisfaction by hoping that Israel will be punished, rubbed out of the game, humiliated, ostracised, denigrated and the contract ripped up.

    Well, I say, do your best. That strategy will not win.

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    I have written three articles in this newspaper on this matter. They have been among the most read and thousands of readers have left comments.

    It is unprecedented and 95 per cent of them support Israel Folau’s right to articulate his religious *beliefs.

    In one week it is infinitely worse than it was.

    We read in this paper, earlier this week, that the gifted Polynesian captain of Queensland rugby, Samu Kerevi, posted on *Instagram on Easter Thursday, “God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that, who*soever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life … Thank You Jesus for dying on the cross for me. I love you Jesus.”

    You will recall we learnt that the tribunal could not meet that same weekend of the “offence”.

    Rugby Australia wanted to sack Israel Folau for his Christian views.

    It couldn’t because it was Easter and everyone at Rugby Australia was taking a holiday to commemorate the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

    And when we get to the tribunal stage, and affidavits are sworn, witnesses will take the stand, and, as Bernard Gaynor wrote: “Our legal system, in its zeal for the facts will allow people to swear on the Bible that what they say is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help them God … the same Bible that Israel Folau quoted from … the same Bible that Raelene Castle says is so offensive that merely quoting from it should see one cast, weeping and gnashing their teeth into the exterior darkness … the same Bible (on which) our governors-general and prime ministers take their oath of *office.”

    The impotence of rugby leadership has been laid bare. Sporting oblivion beckons.

    Did anyone note that only 10,000 people attended the Waratahs game at the brand new Bankwest Stadium last Saturday night? The public, fed up with the treatment of Folau, and all else, are voting with their feet and their wallets.

    Yet what we see may be only the tip of the iceberg because players of similar Christian beliefs to those of Israel are saying, ‘well, you may as well sack all of us because we have the same Christian beliefs as Israel’.

    I coached Taniela Tupou a couple of years ago in the Barbarians. A wonderful, simple, gentle, God-fearing person.


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    He said on Facebook this week: “I will never apologise for my faith and for what I believe in, religion had nothing to do with rugby.”

    Kerevi, who posted the Christian message at Easter, also said he would not apologise for his faith in Jesus Christ.

    They are basically saying, sack us or back off Israel.

    Brisbane-born Billy Vunipola was slapped with a warning, in *England, when he supported *Israel; but three of his England *teammates have stood up and backed Vunipola.

    Make no mistake, this is a rugby crisis which has morphed into a social crisis which will open gigantic wounds in relation to freedom of speech and freedom of religion.

    It will be on for young and old. If need be, Israel will take this all the way and he will have no trouble funding any legal challenge.

    Then I note that Israel, apparently, is not fighting to continue his rugby career in this country because as colleague Wayne Smith writes: “Rugby Australia has made it quite clear that whether he wins the case or loses it, his time with the Wallabies and Waratahs is over”.

    I beg your pardon? So, if the tribunal finds in favour of freedom of speech and freedom of religion, he will be banished anyway.

    If it finds against him, the matter will go to a higher authority to be heard all over again.

    Rugby Australia are being represented at the tribunal tomorrow by former solicitor-general Justin Gleeson QC. Talk about pulling out the big guns.

    So, in order to nail, humiliate, condemn, banish and isolate Israel Folau, Rugby Australia are sparing no expense with money they do not have.

    The rugby family must ask again, when are this blazer mob going to do the decent thing and resign or be thrown out?

    They may be in office but they are not in power.

    We have the unthinkable, where highly paid players are publicly saying who they will play with and who they won’t.

    Not if I was coaching they wouldn’t. They would be told simply and emphatically that they do not pick the team.

    Remember, this is the same board of Rugby Australia who axed the Western Force in 2017 to save $6 million when Andrew Forrest was offering the same administration $50m.

    Now, Raelene Castle, on more than $800,000 a year, backed by the board, has decided that Israel Folau will not play for Australia.

    To hell with the tribunal. She will be forced to pay out his $4m contract. This is really smart stuff.

    On the eve of the Rugby World Cup, the administration is at war with its best player; and at war with players from the Pacific *islands, who comprise almost half of the Australian team.

    The place has gone mad.

    Israel Folau could lose his job for quoting the Bible.

    Sharing an excerpt from the world’s highest selling book is now discrimination, even though there is not a skerrick of evidence that Israel discriminated against anyone.

    As Jennifer Oriel wrote in this paper this week, “corporate Australia is turning its back on free speech. Big business is Big Brother. The battle between Australia’s sporting codes (remember the chairman of the Australian Rugby League Commission suggested *Israel was a poor cultural fit for his game) looks increasingly like cashed-up bullies hunting a Christian.”

    Among the thousands of comments I have received on previous articles, Chris summed it up best, “these are the defining issues of our time’’.

    “Do we keep quiet while the institutions and sport we love are torn apart by virtue-seeking fools … they are in the minority … time to take a stand Australians.

    “Thank god, Jesus and Christianity for giving us your voice, Alan. Sometimes it feels like a lone voice in the swell of the PC media.

    “But the soon to be not-silent majority stand with you.”

    Former prime minister Tony Abbott says it best: “If the silent majority stay silent they can’t *expect to remain a majority.”

    Tomorrow, at the tribunal, it is the virtue-signalling administrators of Australian Rugby who must be silenced for good, not *Israel Folau.

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  5. #485
    Veteran Sheikh's Avatar
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    Another article by Jones where he's tried to re-frame the issue to one of religion.

    RA are not taking Folau to the tribunal because he's Christian, nor for quoting parts of the Bible. He's done plenty of that over the past year and RA have had no problem with it. They don't even have a problem with the passage from the Bible which he did quote (Galatians 5:19-21)* which mentions people committing adultury, fornication, idolatory and drunkenness, plus several other issues, not inheriting the Kingdom of God (it doesn't mention homosexuals, liars, thieves or atheists, BTW!).

    RA's problem is with the text Folau put up alongside the Bible quote, not with the Bible quote or his faith. The text is the bit that 'bullies, harasses or denigrates' someone's sexual orientation, which is explicitly listed is the code of conduct as having no place in rugby.

    I know many people of many different faiths, some of which still officially bar homosexuality, who can live perfectly happy lives, praising God (or Allah or Yaweah or Buddah or the Flying Spaghetti Monster, etc) who don't feel the need to spout hateful opinions.

    But that doesn't make for a good Alan Jones column, so he re-frames the question to one where he can win, and even RA (surely) aren't stupid enough to try and fight, largely because they don't care that he's Christian. Just stop with the queer-bashing.



    [* I could find other sections from the Bible which are even more heinous - there's whole sections about selling your wife and daughters into slavery, for example. I don't see Folau quoting those parts too often!]

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  6. #486
    Rookie cedric rainwater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheikh View Post
    Another article by Jones where he's tried to re-frame the issue to one of religion.

    RA are not taking Folau to the tribunal because he's Christian, nor for quoting parts of the Bible. He's done plenty of that over the past year and RA have had no problem with it. They don't even have a problem with the passage from the Bible which he did quote (Galatians 5:19-21)* which mentions people committing adultury, fornication, idolatory and drunkenness, plus several other issues, not inheriting the Kingdom of God (it doesn't mention homosexuals, liars, thieves or atheists, BTW!).

    RA's problem is with the text Folau put up alongside the Bible quote, not with the Bible quote or his faith. The text is the bit that 'bullies, harasses or denigrates' someone's sexual orientation, which is explicitly listed is the code of conduct as having no place in rugby.

    I know many people of many different faiths, some of which still officially bar homosexuality, who can live perfectly happy lives, praising God (or Allah or Yaweah or Buddah or the Flying Spaghetti Monster, etc) who don't feel the need to spout hateful opinions.

    But that doesn't make for a good Alan Jones column, so he re-frames the question to one where he can win, and even RA (surely) aren't stupid enough to try and fight, largely because they don't care that he's Christian. Just stop with the queer-bashing.



    [* I could find other sections from the Bible which are even more heinous - there's whole sections about selling your wife and daughters into slavery, for example. I don't see Folau quoting those parts too often!]
    selling your wife!!!!????
    now you're talking.
    is that on mumtree

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    cider my arse

  7. #487
    Champion SPaRTAN's Avatar
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    In all honesty I dont really care about this whole situation, I care nothing for religion, and if this is the catalyst for christainity and their rights to implode in Australia and they take RugbyAustralia down with them then good, they both deserve each other. Raelene and her cult is going to war in the morning to take on Folau and his christian cult, popcorn time.

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  8. #488
    Immortal Contributor The InnFORCEr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cedric rainwater View Post
    selling your wife!!!!????
    now you're talking.
    is that on mumtree
    Yeah but you need a wife to sell

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  9. #489
    Veteran sittingbison's Avatar
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    Does it mention selling your same sex wife, and transgender daughter?

    The Parrot would be better off concentrating on the true RA incompetence...
    1) Re-signing Folau on a multi million dollar four year deal shortly after the first incident
    2) not insisting on a muzzle clause
    3) trying for a muzzle contract after re-signing him

    You couldn't make this shit up

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  10. #490
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    Now a million dollar offer for Folau to walk away ..... TWITS or clowns not sure which.....???

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  11. #491
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPaRTAN View Post
    In all honesty I dont really care about this whole situation, I care nothing for religion, and if this is the catalyst for christainity and their rights to implode in Australia and they take RugbyAustralia down with them then good, they both deserve each other. Raelene and her cult is going to war in the morning to take on Folau and his christian cult, popcorn time.
    The RA going tits up will be the best thing for Rugby in Australia.

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  12. #492
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootsetal06 View Post
    Now a million dollar offer for Folau to walk away ..... TWITS or clowns not sure which.....???
    Pay out 12 months as opposed to paying out 4 years. It's good finance, shame there's nothing in it for folau. Hell tell them and all their puppet media mouthpieces that keep saying there's no protection on religious grounds in NSW to roll the dice

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    C'mon the

  13. #493
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    Alan Jones latest: The sacking of the whole board now wouldn't that be good although I think this has been said for quite a while now and nobody seems to act..

    "With a World Cup in the offing and a Super Rugby competition in which the rugby family appears increasingly uninterested, Rugby Australia continues on this mindless prosecution of Israel Folau.
    It is extraordinary to reflect how, in this country, we have managed difficult situations like this in the past without such a conspicuous lack of leadership and the consequential inability to resolve the issue. We seem to be in a situation where conflict between religious and other views, on certain issues, has spiralled out of control.
    Express a religious view on issues that others find “offensive” and there are cascading and immediate demands that someone be sacked. Yet there are any number of existing conflicts of opinion where debate and protest are the order of the day without the same degree of intolerance as has been displayed towards Folau.
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    The intractable debate over abortion has raged for decades. Both sides are outspoken, publicly and privately, and not shy of protesting to promote their views. The conflict of opinions on this issue is also equally as personal as someone’s sexuality; after all, it deals with a woman’s body. The debate is also potentially hurtful and involves religious views given that much of the objection to abortion is based on religious beliefs.
    Yet somehow society is able to incorporate these opposing views, and the expression of them, one largely religious, the other not, without calling for those who express the possibly unpopular religious view to be sacked.
    Why is the same tolerance not extended to Folau’s recitation of extracts from the Bible?
    The issues of freedom of speech and to express one’s religious views must win out and Rugby Australia must show leadership and common sense to celebrate these cornerstones of Australian society. While Rugby Australia operates in denial of these freedoms, the situation gets more costly and damaging to individuals and the game.
    Christopher Hitchens was a controversial British-American author, essayist, journalist and social critic. It was he who said: “Freedom of expression must include the licence to offend.”
    If, as a nation, we want freedom of speech, then the corollary is that people will be offended.
    If Folau has offended some people with his remarks but he hasn’t defamed them or slandered them or pushed his views down anyone else’s throat, then he must be within his rights. And if, as Rugby Australia seems to want to suggest, there is a code of conduct that he has “breached”, then that code of conduct merely says you must: “Use social media appropriately.”
    Surely in this age where Christianity is under siege, it must be appropriate for a player to express his Christian views whether they be, in the eyes of some, disagreeable or antiquated.
    But then, there is also a coaches’ code which argues that coaches must “treat everyone equally regardless of gender or gender identity, sexual orientation, ethnicity, cultural or religious background, age or disability. Any form of bullying, harassment or discrimination has no place in rugby”.
    Unless words have lost their meaning, Folau is being discriminated against on the basis of his “cultural and religious background”. And he was ruled out of the Waratahs and the World Cup campaign before being allowed to state his case.
    There is another code for administrators, that you “do not make any public comment that is critical of … a player, (an) employee of any club or a union … or on any matter that is, or is likely to be, the subject of an investigation or disciplinary process …”
    But Raelene Castle, Michael Cheika and Daryl Gibson were publicly critical of Folau before he had a hearing and even before an independent panel had been constituted. Why aren’t these people in breach of the code?
    The code also provides that “any investigation or disciplinary proceedings (must) ensure that no inaccurate and/or misleading information is provided by you during the course of an investigation or hearing under this code …”
    Castle is claiming that Folau agreed to stop making controversial posts on social media when she had spoken to him previously. This is “misleading”.
    At the “previous” meeting with Castle, there was no formal warning to Folau, no punishment, just a reassurance to continue on and “be respectful”.
    No one is more respectful than Folau. Yet when he was summoned in relation to the latest episode, the meeting lasted about 10 minutes.
    Castle arrived with lawyers. Israel is grateful that the Rugby Union Players Association CEO was there. But Folau was simply told there was no way forward.
    Allegations have subsequently been made that the social media post was done on purpose.
    He was told that if he took the post down, all would be well. But as he told me, to do that would be to “deny my faith”.
    He said he was offered a settlement but gently argued, always in soft tones, that this is not about money but about principle.
    He has heard from no one, not from Gibson, the NSW coach; not from Michael Hooper, the Australian captain; not from David Pocock, a former captain.
    Yet he was merely stating his beliefs and his Christianity. How dare he quote from the Bible.
    As I said last week, quoting a text that would have been repeated over and over again in cathedrals around the world, Paul’s words to the Church of Corinth.
    But to argue as Castle has, that Folau agreed to stop making “controversial posts on social media” is, according to Israel, completely untrue.
    If Castle has put out misleading information to make it look as if she is in control, then she is in breach of the same code.
    If Folau is in breach of rugby’s code of conduct, so too are Cameron Clyne, Castle and others.
    But it is worth pointing out that such codes play second fiddle to the law. Folau has a right to express his religious beliefs under Article 18 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, which came into force in 1976.
    Article 18 of the ICCPR provides:
    1. “Everyone shall have the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion. This right shall include freedom … either individually or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in worship, observance, practice and teaching.”
    Simply, Folau is being denied this right; to say nothing of a sponsor embracing a commercial arrangement with outfits like Emirates Airlines, China Eastern Airlines and China Southern Airlines, countries with appalling human rights records, particularly in relation to homosexuality.
    Mark Latham, recently elected to the NSW parliament, will be moving a motion at the next sitting of parliament to enshrine in law, among other provisions, that the parliament of NSW “supports the basic human rights of NSW workers to express political, cultural and religious opinions in their private time, away from their place of work, without suffering employment penalties and sanctions (and) condemns Rugby Australia for its denial of religious freedom to Folau, well away from his workplace, and the message it has sent to other Christian rugby players that they, too, are not welcome in the game (and) condemns Rugby Australia for the way in which it has redefined the Bible as a form of vilification and hate speech.”
    In a significant point, the Latham motion, “calls on the NSW government to develop leasing practices for its sporting grounds and facilities that ensure all NSW residents are eligible to participate in sporting codes and games and that none are excluded due to their political, cultural or religious opinions.”
    The sadness in all this is not Israel’s alone.
    He is a gifted and gentle soul with not a sinew of hate in his body.
    While he is at peace with his god he says to me, simply and plaintively: “They make me feel like a murderer.”
    Yet even murderers and rapists get a reduction in their terms.
    As one rugby fan has written, “our reputation as a great sporting nation is going down the tube … why does a guy who, with a punch, breaks another player’s jaw get banned for six weeks, yet a guy who says something that others don’t like gets banned for life?”
    To every problem there must be a solution. Invariably in life, those who create a crisis are then incapable of resolving it.
    And so it is with the board of Rugby Australia. They have a phalanx of legal advisers whom they can’t afford. But even they could not design a code of conduct that works in such a way that no one is offended.
    Rugby Australia presume to argue, apparently, that the game is bigger than Folau.
    Folau would be the first to admit that.
    But equally, the game is bigger than the board of Rugby Australia.
    They would be the last to admit that!
    Given that it appears they won’t admit they are wrong and given that rugby and its proud legacy are being destroyed, the board should simply say, this is a problem we don’t believe we can satisfactorily resolve, nor, we believe, should this be pursued to its ultimate legal conclusion.
    The board can yet salvage something in the interests of the game.
    Resign graciously. Allow a new administration to address all the problems of the game, including this, and start again on an equal footing honouring the twin principles of fairness to everybody and the preservation of our game.
    Where we are today can be simply expressed.
    It is either goodbye the board of Rugby Australia or goodbye democracy and goodbye freedom.
    This must stop before it gets worse".

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  14. #494
    Immortal Contributor The InnFORCEr's Avatar
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    Imagine the cost to pay out the entire board, it would be expensive but money well spent. Watch this all drag out until the RWC and then once the junket is over, they'll all start dropping like political candidates before an election.

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  15. #495
    Immortal Contributor shasta's Avatar
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    Typical rant from Alan Jones, and all the others screaming about religious discrimination. Manipulation of words and facts to suit the agenda. Nobody is being targeted for "recitation of extracts from the Bible?" None of the verses quoted mention anyone going to hell - far as I can see. The nearest any of them get is "shall not inherit the kingdom of God'' - what ever TF that means. The only references to going to hell are in Folau's own words and the meme he posted above them.

    In any event nothing that comes now can prevent the ridicule brought on by one more RA balls-up. In view of all the times they have remained hidden in the More Park bunker while various shit storms raged outside; what TF moved them to paint themselves into a corner at the start of this one is a mystery. One thing Jones has right is the dearth of leadership from any of them. FFS.

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