Andrew Forrest hits back at Australian Rugby Union claims about Western Force axeing

[WFDom]

I think the wording of the statement pretty much will show the ARU that its genuine.

Perhaps not releasing the document is to protect the Unnamed Sauce?

I'm sure it does. But Clyne's called him out on it now.

Next move Twiggy

[lou]

The ARU made the offer to buy the Western Force IP and the licence for $800,000 to help out the Force with financial difficulties in 2016. In 2015 - they 'sold' the Rebels to Andrew Cox for $1 (the business was debt free - the ARU had cleared the creditors debts of $1.8 m as at 30 June 2015) and the ARU promised to pay Cox over $6 million over 5 years with balloon payments in the first two years. In addition to the promised payments, the ARU PAID Cox $500,000 in July 2015 and $250,000 in November 2015 because he - wait for it - asked for it - with nothing given in return. If Twiggy wants copies of this, send him my way, happy to pass any docs on that would help the Force.

[chibi]

I have been looking at this from a different angle. And I think that while these questions are important we have missed one very important point.

The Intellectual Property Rights.

1. Who first came up with the idea to go after the Western Force IPR?

2. Was there legal advice that said that buying owning one of the Teams IPR they could then legally terminate that team.

3. Why wasnt the IPR's of the Melbourne Rebels or the Brumbies acquired?

The IPR's were acquired 2 years ago. The plan to cull a team must have been in place prior to that.

Yep, I'm actually of the belief that there has been intent to remove the Force since just before Melbourne was added to the competition. Not trying to denigrate Victorian rugby, but I've always felt that a fifth team in Melbourne was surplus to requirements at the time; because if they weren't, they would have been awarded the fourth spot ahead of us in the first place; but even so the ARU has then regretted giving the team to WA since very early on. Whether it was the drop off in crowds, the lack of a stadium and media support, the generic name and colours, quokkagate, firepower, I dunno what it was; but I've always felt that they had something like a post-marriage regret, that they looked on ruefully at Melbourne's big(ger) city and bright lights and thought that they picked the wrong sister. I also wonder if they felt that they were "duped" by the WA rugby public (unjustifiably in my view) into believing that the sport here was bigger than it actually was, that the Force would be a major player on the same level as the AFL sides in our media and mainstream psyche, that they wouldn't need to support the team in any major way and that it would flourish on it's own. It would explain why we've had bugger all real support from them from very early on in the piece.

[blindsid3]

For those not following me on FB or the Roar. The following is a satirical reconstruction of real events:

Lawyer: “There is no legal obligation to retain the Western Force in the Super Rugby competition following the renegotiation of the broadcast contracts. If the broadcast contracts are renegotiated with effect from the end of the 2107 Super Rugby season, the Alliance Agreement will automatically terminate at the end of the 2017 season and the obligation on the ARU to maintain the Western Force as a Super Rugby team in Perth will lapse at that point.”

Cam: Right. So if we cut the force, this will trigger the renegotiation of the broadcast agreement, which will mean that we can cut the force?

Lawyer: Yep

Cam: Do it. But since the alliance agreement says we must act in good faith, make sure it looks like we have.

Bill: How about a big spreadsheet?

Cam: Perfect. But make sure it is big as in “not email-able”, not big as in “full of meaningful data”. We can’t have it being released to the media.

[BLR]

Yep, I'm actually of the belief that there has been intent to remove the Force since just before Melbourne was added to the competition.

I somewhat agree with this but I don't believe it had much to do with us at all.

During the bidding process the ARU made it seem like and actual process and there was actually two competing Melbourne bids so on the face of it all was well. But they fell flat on their ass for us to Bradbury our way in.

I believe at the time you had the bloke in charge who started the ARC as well and seemed to be reasonably forward thinking. But, like all outgoing leaders O'Neill replaced him, cut the ARC, badmouthed how horrible the outgoing CEO was and the love fest towards Melbourne began, as I believe O'Neill has said multiple times in the past it was a mistake granting us the license before Melbourne. Since then it has been more of the same.

So, to sum up, just a massive east coast love in, I don't think we ACTUALLY had a single thing to do with it, as year after year we beat membership and crowd numbers of the East Coast, if they were ever on board they would have seen this and done something to encourage this.

[Alison]

The ARU made the offer to buy the Western Force IP and the licence for $800,000 to help out the Force with financial difficulties in 2016. In 2015 - they 'sold' the Rebels to Andrew Cox for $1 (the business was debt free - the ARU had cleared the creditors debts of $1.8 m as at 30 June 2015) and the ARU promised to pay Cox over $6 million over 5 years with balloon payments in the first two years. In addition to the promised payments, the ARU PAID Cox $500,000 in July 2015 and $250,000 in November 2015 because he - wait for it - asked for it - with nothing given in return. If Twiggy wants copies of this, send him my way, happy to pass any docs on that would help the Force.

Hey Lou, are you sure of that $800K figure? The ARU accounts talk about a figure of $4.3million (from memory). Was the difference between the two a "bail out"?

[lou]

Hey Lou, are you sure of that $800K figure? The ARU accounts talk about a figure of $4.3million (from memory). Was the difference between the two a "bail out"?

I think the $800,000 came from the Australian - Wayne Smith - this is the for the licence and IP - the rest of the $4.3 m was when the ARU took over the payments for the players and admin as they were then employees of the ARU.

[Tonkar]

Yep, I'm actually of the belief that there has been intent to remove the Force since just before Melbourne was added to the competition.

I also had mentioned that there was a conspiracy to get rid of the force when Foley was appointted coach,, A few members of this forum told me that I wore my tinfoil hat.. I had an insider in NZRU mention it,, My source was right on ,, He always said we would be ambushed .. Look back in the Archieves in 2012 and 2013..

[Alison]

The ARU made the offer to buy the Western Force IP and the licence for $800,000 to help out the Force with financial difficulties in 2016. In 2015 - they 'sold' the Rebels to Andrew Cox for $1 (the business was debt free - the ARU had cleared the creditors debts of $1.8 m as at 30 June 2015) and the ARU promised to pay Cox over $6 million over 5 years with balloon payments in the first two years. In addition to the promised payments, the ARU PAID Cox $500,000 in July 2015 and $250,000 in November 2015 because he - wait for it - asked for it - with nothing given in return. If Twiggy wants copies of this, send him my way, happy to pass any docs on that would help the Force.

Just another couple of quick things: was the $1.8m write off in addition to the write off of the $13m owed to the ARU by the MRRU in loans? And, do you know where in the ARU's accounts those two "just because" payments of $500K and $250K to Cox were recorded?

I found no mention of any of those three payments in the accounts that were filed with ASIC. More obfuscation and shady dealings? What else has been hidden over the past 12 years or so?.....

4 Corners, we NEED you!!

[Alison]

I think the $800,000 came from the Australian - Wayne Smith - this is the for the licence and IP - the rest of the $4.3 m was when the ARU took over the payments for the players and admin as they were then employees of the ARU.

I thought the salaries were recorded as a separate item in the ARU's accounts. I'm off to check!

[Alison]

I've always had that feeling too Chibi. Almost like reading out the wrong envelope on Oscars night!

[lou]

Just another couple of quick things: was the $1.8m write off in addition to the write off of the $13m owed to the ARU by the MRRU in loans? And, do you know where in the ARU's accounts those two "just because" payments of $500K and $250K to Cox were recorded?

I found no mention of any of those three payments in the accounts that were filed with ASIC. More obfuscation and shady dealings? What else has been hidden over the past 12 years or so?.....

4 Corners, we NEED you!!

I have to look this up. By the way, do the ARU accounts filed with ASIC show different detail than the accounts issued on the ARU page?

[Tonkar]

Hey Lou, are you sure of that $800K figure? The ARU accounts talk about a figure of $4.3million (from memory). Was the difference between the two a "bail out"?

Allison I do remember that when the ARU took over the Admin of the Force we had an outstanding debt with the WA government for something like $2 million. as a loan when we moved from spewbie to NIB and into the new Rugby HQ,, which was to be paid down over this last broadcast deal,, The ARU had to pay that out???

[Alison]

I have to look this up. By the way, do the ARU accounts filed with ASIC show different detail than the accounts issued on the ARU page?

Not sure I've seen the ones on the ARU page but usually they will publish an abbreviated version of the ones filed with ASIC. So, the ASIC ones have much more detail and show things like the "notes to the accounts", which are a goldmine!

[Alison]

Allison I do remember that when the ARU took over the Admin of the Force we had an outstanding debt with the WA government for something like $2 million. as a loan when we moved from spewbie to NIB and into the new Rugby HQ,, which was to be paid down over this last broadcast deal,, The ARU had to pay that out???

I don't think so. I thought RWA came to an agreement about that with the WA Gov, who forgave some or all of the loan? That detail should be in RWA's 2016 accounts.