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Thread: Arbitration hearing - Western Force v ARU - 31.07.2017

  1. #421
    Immortal Contributor shasta's Avatar
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    Wayne Smith has stated in the weekend oz that the ARU, despite Clyne publicly stating the contrary, actively worked to bring about the transfer of the Rebels' licence to the VRU.

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  2. #422
    Champion andrewM's Avatar
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    Is this the article? Love Stooke's comments

    Australian Rugby Union chief executive Bill Pulver will resign as soon as a replacement can be found as a series of shockwaves rocked the game in the wake of the national body’s decision to cull the Western Force from Super Rugby.

    The first of them arrived even before Pulver announced his decision at an evening press conference, with ARU director Geoff Stooke, the Force’s founding chairman, resigning with immediate effect from the board.

    He told The Weekend Australian that the Force were the victims of “a totally corrupt process” and described the ARU’s rationale that Australian rugby was financially unsustainable trying to keep five teams alive as “horseshit”.

    “The integrity of the process doesn’t exist,” said Stooke. “It’s all how you spend the money. They don’t mind paying a bucketload to bring Will Genia and Kurtley Beale home from Europe.

    “There is only one reason why the Force was axed, because they could do it. No other reason.”

    Stooke had recused himself from board discussions while the process remained up in the air but had contacted the ARU on Thursday afternoon to say he was rescinding his recusal in light of the fact that the arbitration decision was to be handed down the following day. But the board meeting went ahead yesterday without him.

    Pulver’s resignation was not unexpected but it still came as a shock when he announced it at last night’s press conference. He insisted he was “very, very sorry for all the people in Western Australia but it’s the right decision” to remove the Force. I’m not denying that this will not have an impact there.”

    However, he insisted that all the pathways remained in place in the West — even if young players no longer have a Super Rugby team to aim for.

    As for his own position, he admitted that it had been “a difficult year for rugby”. “I think it’s the right time for a change,” he said.

    Certainly it is unfortunate that this decision will define Pulver’s term as ARU CEO because he had done commendable things in his nearly five years in the job. But there is no question that the man who only a year ago had vowed not to allow rugby to “shrink to greatness” became as much a victim of a 123-day process as the Perth club itself.

    Ironically, the ARU has an experienced contender on staff at present in the shape of Force CEO Mark Sinderberry, who became an ARU employee when the national body took over the club in June last year. Yet he was a shattered man when he spoke to The Weekend Australian yesterday and had to break off the interview because he was in tears.

    Former Waratahs and RUPA boss Greg Harris also is understood to be ready to step in if required.

    “It is not a popularity contest but you must first of all listen to those who you lead and be able to understand how those you are leading feel,” Harris said.

    It now remains to be seen whether ARU chairman Cameron Clyne will follow Pulver’s lead, though he pointed out that the direction the national body has followed was approved first at the ARU’s annual general meeting and then at the emergency general meeting in June. Still, it could be argued — and indeed was being argued strongly in the west — that NSW, Queensland and the Brumbies voted purely out of self-interest.

    Clyne indicated that the decision to sack the Force was final from the ARU’s perspective. “But we can’t control it from now,” Clyne said.

    Within hours of the decision, Western Australian mining magnate Andrew “Twiggy” Forrest was giving a press conference in Perth, flanked by Force Wallabies Pek Cowan and Richard Hardwick vowing to study the arbitration judge’s ruling and launch an appeal to the Supreme Court if it was deemed viable.

    “What is my absolute amazement (is that the ARU) would take that arbitrators decision and then immediately attempt to cut the Force,” said Forrest. “And I say attempt because I will be studying an injunction option. If an injunction is possible I will certainly be prepared to stand behind that. This would be a gross injustice that the three people who are the architect of this decision inside the ARU have resigned. I don’t blame them for that

    “This is a try against us but it is not the end of the game.”

    Forrest took issue with Pulver’s claim that the ARU had consulted a spreadsheet before determining to trim the Western Force rather than the other team it had nominated as a culling option, the Melbourne Rebels. “I’d like to see that spreadsheet,” he growled.

    But there is also growing concern at how the Rebels came to have been saved by arranging for former owner Andrew Cox to sell the licence back to the Victorian Rugby Union.

    The ARU publicly expressed shock and outrage that the sale had gone ahead without their knowledge but it is now becoming clear that the ARU not only was kept abreast of the sale but actively worked to bring it about.

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  3. #423
    Senior Player Macattack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Edwards View Post
    We were beaten on a technicality in Arbitration but all along we have been preparing for either outcome. This has always been about the ARU's Own short term liquidity not ours or the Rebels. They have shown no interest in a negotiated outcome they just want to pocket the $5mm per annum broadcast cash they gain from dumping a team. Short of AF cutting the ARU a cheque they were not interested.
    So we fight on and we hope we can keep the wheels on while we do. The National uproar has been good to see but it will pass so we need to keep the acid on.
    If that's the case John, then whether the "technicality" can stand up in a SC appeal will be bloody important.

    Are the findings of the arbitration published, most people on here would want to read it i suspect?

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  4. #424
    Legend Contributor Alison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Edwards View Post
    We were beaten on a technicality in Arbitration but all along we have been preparing for either outcome. This has always been about the ARU's Own short term liquidity not ours or the Rebels. They have shown no interest in a negotiated outcome they just want to pocket the $5mm per annum broadcast cash they gain from dumping a team. Short of AF cutting the ARU a cheque they were not interested.
    So we fight on and we hope we can keep the wheels on while we do. The National uproar has been good to see but it will pass so we need to keep the acid on.
    But they have shown themselves to be liars and cheats John. They hoodwinked us into selling our licence knowing they would connive and deceive their way to never ever letting us have it back. And they did it knowing that we could never prove otherwise. They are sharks and con men. Charlatans egged on by their cronies who are all now rubbing their hands with glee at finally getting rid of us. How are we ever going to get back from this with the cards so heavily stacked against us? How can we fight fairly against an opposition who will clearly stop at nothing - even corruption - to get the outcome they and Brett Papworth and all their fellow cronies want? Hell, now we hear that Clyne practically brokered the sale of the Rebels to the VRU for $1. How is that not a massive conflict of interest, if not corrupt?

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  5. #425
    Veteran zimeric's Avatar
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    Clyne said Pulver could be proud of his tenure and his willingness to front up despite being subject to “an incredible amount of unfair personal criticism” and “vitriolic, unfounded, faceless commentary”.

    Faceless? Really.. we all have faces we also have legitimate and evidence backed reasons for the vitriol..

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  6. #426
    Senior Player Macattack's Avatar
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    No matter what Clyne says he and Pulver's legacy will be an absolute disgrace - they will never change that!

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  7. #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by shasta View Post
    Wayne Smith has stated in the weekend oz that the ARU, despite Clyne publicly stating the contrary, actively worked to bring about the transfer of the Rebels' licence to the VRU.
    I said they were doing exactly that earlier on the week. Fucken clyne, if I ever see him I am going to punch him in the face.

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  8. #428
    Immortal GIGS20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alison View Post
    who are all now rubbing their hands with glee at finally getting rid of us
    I can tell you what they're rubbing and it isn't their hands

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    C'mon the

  9. #429
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeansyjive View Post
    I said they were doing exactly that earlier on the week. Fucken clyne, if I ever see him I am going to punch him in the face.
    You'll get shit on your hands

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    C'mon the

  10. #430
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    Feeling bl**dy awful

    Hansie and the team at RugbyWA.

    I got the bad news while driving to ORT.

    You have fought the good fight on behalf of us all, and for that we will be forever grateful and thankful.
    Although the war is not over until the last pin is pulled, the odds do seem against us.

    Perhaps those fine young people who make up the Force's playing list and player development team can now obtain some certainty for their and their family's futures. I hope and am confident that they will carve out successful careers in professional rugby, in Australia or else where.

    For the people at RugbyWA who will lose their jobs as a result of this decision, there is no worse feeling than to be made redundant and to lose your job. Many of those of us who have made our careers in the mining industry know that feeling, but be assured that you will get through it, as horrible as it feels right now.

    For us mug punters out in the back blocks and on the mining leases, this is a terribly disappointing outcome, but life will go on. Much as we enjoy the game of rugby union, some of us will probably change the code of football which we support and redirect the money which we have been spending on Force memberships, on tickets to the Bledisloe matches in Sydney and on tickets to any rugby tests in Perth to another code - it's not as though we are starved for choice of code in WA, and anyway, I am looking forward to Origin in Melbourne next year (if not to our credit card balance after my wife has been shopping in Melbourne).

    Now I know what my mates in the Free State are feeling.

    In spite of the result, good work Hansie and good work RugbyWA.
    You have represented us magnificently.

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    Last edited by FingerTips; 11-08-17 at 23:11.

  11. #431
    (Previously WFDS) WFDom's Avatar
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    Did the ARU Just Cull Themselves?

    http://nedlandsrugby.com.au/2017/08/11/aru-just-cull/


    Did the ARU Just Cull Themselves?


    Shortly before 2pm today, your correspondent broke the sad news to the rugby world that RugbyWA had lost the arbitration case with the ARU. Within minutes of that story being posted, the ARU had moved to axe the Force from the Super Rugby competition.

    But as your columnist suggested at the time, the game is not over. As the Force’s billionaire backer Andrew Forrest surmised: “This could be a try against us, but it’s not the end of the game.”

    As flagged earlier today, expect a Supreme Court appeal and injunction to be lodged later tonight, or soon thereafter (weather permitting). And just as your columnist predicted, the WA Government has also confirmed it is examining the undertakings provided by the ARU in relation to the funding commitments made to upgrade nib Stadium.

    Don’t be surprised if a very pre-eminent QC by the name of Allan Myers pops up in the Force’s corner.

    When there is a seismic upheaval of the magnitude which has occurred today in Australian rugby, someone must die. (Figuratively speaking of course). And when the dust finally settles on this saga, your columnist believes that someone will be the institution formerly known as the ARU.

    The writing is already on the wall. Since the decision to attempt to axe the Force was made, the ARU has degenerated into what former Prime Minister Paul Keating might refer to as “unrepresentative swill.” The condemnation of the ARU’s decision is universal. And the list of casualties is mounting. ARU chief executive Bill Pulver has tendered his resignation, becoming the third ARU executive with fingerprints all over this sordid affair to flee the ARU. How’s that for accountability.

    Long-serving ARU director Geoff Stooke, who has been sidelined by the rest of the ARU Board throughout this affair, has resigned in disgust. Here’s a couple of interesting lines from Stookey’s resignation letter:

    “I never wanted to throw any team under the bus, but to create a situation that considers retaining a team that has lost almost $30million (including nearly $17.5million additional cost to the ARU) since 2011 at the expense of a team that has incurred additional cost to the ARU of only $5.5million since 2005 is outrageous! We should be rewarding success not failure. To introduce financial criteria that have nothing to do with the financial viability of each term is less than appropriate.”

    “An appropriate consultation process was never in place & in my view the Western Force was always being targeted for removal. This was simply because they were seen to be the easiest to remove contractually but they were not the team that deserved to be removed. The process lacked due diligence & contained significant levels of bias.”

    “I was opposed to the inclusion of an Argentinian team & a Japanese team in Super Rugby. Without doubt, the failure of such an unwieldy, unattractive & more expensive competition has contributed to the demise of an Australian Super Rugby team & the future demise of rugby in Western Australia. They did not deserve this!”

    Those comments cut straight to the heart of the issue – which is that the decision to axe the Force does not stand up to any sort of scrutiny whatsoever, financial or otherwise.

    Put simply, today’s decision by the ARU does not go even close to passing the pub test. In fact, it wouldn’t even make it through the front door of most public bars. And that is why, in your columnist’s view, the Force will survive. And the ARU won’t. As former Wallaby Brendan Cannon stated tonight: “Everyone must follow Bill Pulver out the door.”

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    Great game, Fucken battled right through to the 80!

  12. #432
    Legend Contributor blueandblack's Avatar
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    Back 3 pages of today's West are all Western Force.

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  13. #433
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    Quote Originally Posted by WFDom View Post
    http://nedlandsrugby.com.au/2017/08/11/aru-just-cull/


    Did the ARU Just Cull Themselves?


    Shortly before 2pm today, your correspondent broke the sad news to the rugby world that RugbyWA had lost the arbitration case with the ARU. Within minutes of that story being posted, the ARU had moved to axe the Force from the Super Rugby competition.

    But as your columnist suggested at the time, the game is not over. As the Force’s billionaire backer Andrew Forrest surmised: “This could be a try against us, but it’s not the end of the game.”

    As flagged earlier today, expect a Supreme Court appeal and injunction to be lodged later tonight, or soon thereafter (weather permitting). And just as your columnist predicted, the WA Government has also confirmed it is examining the undertakings provided by the ARU in relation to the funding commitments made to upgrade nib Stadium.

    Don’t be surprised if a very pre-eminent QC by the name of Allan Myers pops up in the Force’s corner.

    When there is a seismic upheaval of the magnitude which has occurred today in Australian rugby, someone must die. (Figuratively speaking of course). And when the dust finally settles on this saga, your columnist believes that someone will be the institution formerly known as the ARU.

    The writing is already on the wall. Since the decision to attempt to axe the Force was made, the ARU has degenerated into what former Prime Minister Paul Keating might refer to as “unrepresentative swill.” The condemnation of the ARU’s decision is universal. And the list of casualties is mounting. ARU chief executive Bill Pulver has tendered his resignation, becoming the third ARU executive with fingerprints all over this sordid affair to flee the ARU. How’s that for accountability.

    Long-serving ARU director Geoff Stooke, who has been sidelined by the rest of the ARU Board throughout this affair, has resigned in disgust. Here’s a couple of interesting lines from Stookey’s resignation letter:

    “I never wanted to throw any team under the bus, but to create a situation that considers retaining a team that has lost almost $30million (including nearly $17.5million additional cost to the ARU) since 2011 at the expense of a team that has incurred additional cost to the ARU of only $5.5million since 2005 is outrageous! We should be rewarding success not failure. To introduce financial criteria that have nothing to do with the financial viability of each term is less than appropriate.”

    “An appropriate consultation process was never in place & in my view the Western Force was always being targeted for removal. This was simply because they were seen to be the easiest to remove contractually but they were not the team that deserved to be removed. The process lacked due diligence & contained significant levels of bias.”

    “I was opposed to the inclusion of an Argentinian team & a Japanese team in Super Rugby. Without doubt, the failure of such an unwieldy, unattractive & more expensive competition has contributed to the demise of an Australian Super Rugby team & the future demise of rugby in Western Australia. They did not deserve this!”

    Those comments cut straight to the heart of the issue – which is that the decision to axe the Force does not stand up to any sort of scrutiny whatsoever, financial or otherwise.

    Put simply, today’s decision by the ARU does not go even close to passing the pub test. In fact, it wouldn’t even make it through the front door of most public bars. And that is why, in your columnist’s view, the Force will survive. And the ARU won’t. As former Wallaby Brendan Cannon stated tonight: “Everyone must follow Bill Pulver out the door.”
    All I can hope after a sleepless night this comes true but my hope has taken a massive hit! I'm so sad when my daughters are old enough to ask me about rugby union I will be telling them it's like rugby league it's played over east!! Seriously though that's two future players/fans gone! You can't tell me that is worth saving money in the short term!!

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  14. #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alison View Post
    But they have shown themselves to be liars and cheats John. They hoodwinked us into selling our licence knowing they would connive and deceive their way to never ever letting us have it back. And they did it knowing that we could never prove otherwise. They are sharks and con men. Charlatans egged on by their cronies who are all now rubbing their hands with glee at finally getting rid of us. How are we ever going to get back from this with the cards so heavily stacked against us? How can we fight fairly against an opposition who will clearly stop at nothing - even corruption - to get the outcome they and Brett Papworth and all their fellow cronies want? Hell, now we hear that Clyne practically brokered the sale of the Rebels to the VRU for $1. How is that not a massive conflict of interest, if not corrupt?
    Firstly we are going to launch the appeal on Monday and we will Injunct the decision to cut us if they don't grant an appeal. Outside of the appeal there are significant manoeuvres that have come to light that bring grounds for a further case.
    There is more emerging every day and the decision to cut us is flushing this out. Our biggest concern is trying to keep the wheels on while we mount a winning challenge. Meanwhile Wayne Smith and other concerned Journos will be doing their own homework.

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  15. #435
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Edwards View Post
    Firstly we are going to launch the appeal on Monday and we will Injunct the decision to cut us if they don't grant an appeal. Outside of the appeal there are significant manoeuvres that have come to light that bring grounds for a further case.
    There is more emerging every day and the decision to cut us is flushing this out. Our biggest concern is trying to keep the wheels on while we mount a winning challenge. Meanwhile Wayne Smith and other concerned Journos will be doing their own homework.
    A bit of hope returns thanks John..

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