Wallabies vs Argentina 26th July 2015

[GIGS20]

I think a lot of the right reins were pulled in the lead up to this test, but not all of them.

I still think Sio needs to start, Slipper was shown up yet again and Holmes wasn't strong enough to make up for it. Skelton was willing, but isn't an Internatnal forward yet. I remember at moments in the match, watching for him to do stuff. It appears his role is to fill the defensive line one or two passes out and put on one or two big shots in a game. For that we lose the ability to jump in the lineout, a player in the ruck (I don't remember seeing him participating effectively in one) a regular ball carrier and somebody who won't give away dumb reversals of penalty.

Pocock was immense, even Hooper was valuable now that we had somebody focussing on the breakdown. I remember being delighted seein DEAN MUMM take the field, but that disappeared as soon as I realized he didn't replace Skelton.

Backseat were OK, but this game was all about the battle up front. Only thing is we desperately need either Gits or Toomua in 12 for their brains.

[Alison]

Toomua is the best option at 12 for mine.

[travelling_gerry]

Hooper cited for punching an Argi who was holding him back from backing up to the Mumm try

[The InnFORCEr]

The Rugby Championship: Wallabies player ratings from Argentina win

Sam Worthington
FOX SPORTS
July 26, 2015 1:50PM


THE Wallabies’ crushing win over Argentina has left coach Michael Cheika with plenty of selection headaches.

Here’s what we thought of Australia’s 34-9 Rugby Championship triumph in Mendoza, which sets up a mouth-watering decider against the All Blacks in a fortnight.

1) James Slipper — 3/10

Nights out in Mendoza don’t get much worse than this.

Slipper was given a torrid time by Pumas tight-head Ramiro Herrera before trudging off Estadio Malvinas Argentinas just before half-time.

At first it seemed the Reds prop had suffered the ignominy of being dragged early by Cheika but he’d actually failed a concussion test.

Either way, he’s now under immense pressure to keep his starting spot ahead of the rising Scott Sio.

2) Stephen Moore — 7

As expected, Moore has settled into the captaincy gig seamlessly with the extra responsibility not affecting the quality of his core duties.

Got away with a wonky throw early on and the scrum remains inconsistent but other than that he churned through the dirty work in typical fashion.

The hooker even introduced some rarely sighted flair with a pass fake then silky offload.

The skipper will be dining out on that come the video review session.

3) Greg Holmes — 5

He registered a rare line break but props are measured by the scrum and the Wallabies’ was again wobbly when Holmes was on the field.

Referee Jaco Peyper was more interested in Slipper’s technique than Holmes’ but nonetheless the Queenslander missed an opportunity to nail a starting spot after a long hiatus from Test rugby.

4) Will Skelton — 7

There are still plenty of rough edges — ill discipline and silly, unnecessary late tackles.

But, after a quiet Test against South Africa, the positives far outweighed the negatives as Skelton silenced some critics with a powerful performance.

He's carrying his 140kg well, fit enough to still make an impact in the 74th minute with a crunching hit on Pumas prop Matias Diaz.

Skelton also made four tackle busts from only five runs — remarkable for a giant lock.

5) Rob Simmons — 6

The Reds lock is mostly anonymous in general play, with impactful runs or tackles a rarity.

But Simmons is justifying his reputation as a lineout supremo, responsible for eight of the Wallabies’ 10 takes, including an important steal when Argentina were hot on attack and the game was still in the balance.

He was also Australia’s second leading tackler, with 12, and didn’t miss one, but conversely conceded two turnovers.

6) Scott Fardy — 5

A quiet match for the bearded blindside before he limped off early in the second half.

Fardy is in the team for his lineout ability and willingness to do the dirty work but the drums are beating for David Pocock and Michael Hooper to join forces in the back-row.

7) David Pocock — 9

An immense 80 minute performance in his first Test start since December 2012.

First the stats: 16 tackles without a miss, four tackle busts, a line break and a memorable turnover late in the first half when he won a penalty with his strong presence over the ball.

But Pocock also provides vital leadership qualities that had been sorely missing throughout his injury-enforced absence.

The flanker revs up those around him and also offers wise decision making counsel for captain Moore.

8) Ben McCalman — 6

Super Rugby’s leading metre eater put in a decent enough shift before making way for Hooper early in the second half.

He’s less flashy than rival No 8 Scott Higginbotham, but McCalman’s willingness to engage in close-quarter combat makes him more suited to a starting spot.

But it might all be irrelevant if Cheika decides to roll out old faithful Wycliff Palu against the All Blacks, following a freshening up spell for the big Waratah.

9) Nick Phipps — 7

He fumbled a couple of times, but overall Phipps’ energy and delivery was impressive.

Doesn’t offer the same running threat as the injured Will Genia but he’s brave in defence.

Genia’s misfortune means Phipps is at short odds to start the World Cup as the No 1 halfback.

10) Bernard Foley — 4

Twitter was abuzz with punters comparing their golf swings with Foley’s kicking form.

We’re assuming that’s not a good thing, after Foley went 5/9 from the tee.

It wasn’t just the fact he was missing them — the confidence and technique was all awry, almost managing to shank one from right in front of the posts.

His general play was OK, including an excellent offload for Tevita Kuridrani’s try, but goalkicking is emerging as a massive concern in World Cup year.

He also missed four tackles.

11) Joe Tomane — 6

Joltin’ Joe didn’t see a huge amount of ball on the left wing but he took his try well to give the Wallabies a first half lead.

The powerful Brumby also slipped a team-high three offloads to go with 59 run metres.

Cheika now has three strong contenders for the No 11 jersey: Tomane, Rob Horne and Henry Speight, available again after serving his suspension.

12) Matt Toomua — 5

Spare a thought for the Brumbies man, who is having a luckless 2015.

After an injury plagued Super Rugby season, Toomua had some promising early touches before running into the shoulder of opposite Juan Pablo Socino after just eight minutes.


Toomua failed his concussion test and is in doubt for the Bledisloe Cup Test in Sydney.

13) Tevita Kuridrani — 6

Didn’t see much action but is becoming a late try-scoring specialist after he finished a move involving slick handling from Hooper, Foley and Kurtley Beale.

Is currently unchallenged as the Wallabies’ No 13 and could do with someone breathing down his neck.

14) Adam Ashley-Cooper — 6

Scoring Australia’s bonus-point try was a fitting way for the 31-year-old to celebrate his 100th Test start.

Not the world’s most dynamic winger but ultra reliable and strong in defence with a knack for reading the play.

15) Israel Folau — 9

Another superb performance.

He didn’t score himself, but Folau set up the Tomane and Ashley-Cooper tries with purposeful, assertive running.

Brilliant under the high ball, Folau’s kicking game is not the best in the world but when you’re 103kg and can run like the wind, who cares?

His positional play is also getting better and better.

RESERVES

16) Tatafu Polota-Nau — 7

Regarded as Australia’s strongest scrummaging hooker, Polota-Nau lived up to that billing as the Pumas suddenly started getting shunted backwards.

With the skipper in front of him, Polota-Nau’s opportunities will be scarce but, as asked, he added real impact off the bench.

Great to see him firing again after his concussion scares.

17) Scott Sio — 7

Surely it’s time to take off the training wheels and give the Brumbies loose-head a start against the All Blacks?

Sio struggled in his first scrum but things clicked beautifully in tandem with Polota-Nau and Sekope Kepu.

Time to see what he can do from the opening whistle.

18) Sekope Kepu — 7

Below his best against the Springboks, Kepu may well have won back his No 3 jersey with an impressive cameo in Mendoza.

19) Dean Mumm — 8

Mumm’s selection was a surprise but he repaid Cheika’s faith with eye-catching impact off the bench, playing as a blindside flanker for the injured Fardy.

His try — dancing down the right-hand touch — was one a winger would have been proud of.


20) Michael Hooper — 7

A ball of energy off the bench, impactful will ball in hand and in defence.

He occasionally makes poor decisions and shoots out of the line by himself but the pros well and truly outweigh the cons.

Surely it’s time to try the Pocock-Hooper starting combination?

21) Nic White — 5

A brief run off the bench to shake off some cobwebs.

A capable back-up.

22) Quade Cooper — 4

It was surprising to see Cooper enter the fray for Toomua instead of Beale at No 12.

Cooper’s passing and kicking was scratchy and even when he does good things, his teammates just aren’t on the same wavelength.

A silly yellow card further blotted his copybook and five-eighth remains Cheika’s biggest headache.

23) Kurtley Beale — 8

This is a high rating for such a brief cameo but Beale had two lovely touches to set up the late tries to Kuridrani and Ashley-Cooper.

A real contender to start at inside centre against the All Blacks, particularly if Toomua is not right.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/th...-1227457445613

[GIGS20]

How does Skelton get a 7?
I notice that stats are ominously missing from that assessment, apart from the one which stated he made 4 line busts, he only made 5 runs, so it's not like he was tired! How many tackles did he make? How many rucks did he hit? How many lineouts did he take?

I'd suggest if he's only on the field for his running and offload game, 5 runs in a game isn't enough!

I thought Mumm and Beale's assessments were surprisingly high as well, but pretty fair everywhere else.

Reading my post back before I hit send, I realise it sounds a little anti-Tah tinfoil hat here, but It was simply an honest assessment (and if I was beating my usual drum, I would have bagged Hooper's rating, but I didn't)

[andrewg]

How does Skelton get a 7?
I notice that stats are ominously missing from that assessment, apart from the one which stated he made 4 line busts, he only made 5 runs, so it's not like he was tired! How many tackles did he make? How many rucks did he hit? How many lineouts did he take?

I'd suggest if he's only on the field for his running and offload game, 5 runs in a game isn't enough!

Your wish is my command......

5 runs for 30m - 3 Defenders beaten, 1 Clean Break, 0 Passes, 0 Offloads.
9 Tackles/0 missed (Pocock 18/0; Simmons 13/0; McCalman 10/2 - 48 mins)
2 Penalties
O Line Out Wins or Steals.
0 Turn Overs
22 Rucks (16 Attack; 6 Defense)

Pocock made 28 rucks in 80 minutes - 3 TOW
Fardy made 26 rucks in 53 minutes - 1 TOW
McCalman made 17 rucks in 48 minutes.

BUT if you break Skelton's rucks into 20 minute quarters his ruck involvement as follows: 12 - 4 - 5 - 1.

Was I the only person who observed him struggling to raise a shuffle after 50 minutes?
Mostly he just waited for the game to come to him.

What the Springboks v All Blacks game showed us was:
1. We are OK with our Back Row
2. We will struggle in Line Outs against quality combinations- esp with Skelton as a starter.
3. Our Front Row options just don't do enough work around the park - tackles and rucks.
(Kepu made a single ruck and thankfully 7 tackles in 25 minutes; TPN made a single ruck and single tackle in his 14 minutes; Sio 7 rucks, 5 tackles and 3 runs for 6m in his 41 minutes.)

Pocock did not deserve to be pushed to No 8 when Hooper came off the bench as he had done so well at OSF.
I also struggle to see how Cheika can try to turn Pocock into a Line Out option when he has showed little skill for this at both the Force and Brumbies. Hodgo worked hard to be an effective option at the Line Out when needed - until he got tired of being dropped/injured.

[James]

Whoever gave Beale an 8 clearly has an agenda. He played for 5 minutes and made two standard passes. Nothing the anyone else playing that position couldn't make. It is fair to say that at least he didn't &%$* it up but I didn't think he did anything that a standard Wallabies play should do. If I had to rate him on 5 minutes, I'd give him a generous 6.

[chibi]

Whoever gave Beale an 8 clearly has an agenda. He played for 5 minutes and made two standard passes. Nothing the anyone else playing that position couldn't make. It is fair to say that at least he didn't &%$* it up but I didn't think he did anything that a standard Wallabies play should do. If I had to rate him on 5 minutes, I'd give him a generous 6.

I agree, he threw two excellent passes, but any good ball-handling rugby player at that level should be able to do that.

Here's hoping that the NRC reveal more legitimate contenders for the Wallaby squad.

[GIGS20]

Thanks for your great work Andrewg, I'm pretty surprised to see 22 rucks for Skelton, but my assessment, as ever, was entirely subjective and I didn't really look for him until the middle of the second half when I noticed that his name hadn't been called for a while. Looking at your breakdown would suggest that I started to pay attention at about the 60th minute when he was pretty much coasting.

I can't say that his numbers over 80 minutes even convince me that he's useful as an impact player, but he might be of some use once he learns how to work!

[Ecky]

Hooper cited for punching

Doesn't matter why or in what circumstances. If someone feels he struck another player, then he can be cited for striking.

[travelling_gerry]

Plea for mercy Sir?

[chibi]

On a side-note, I do NOT like the play-acting Argentina brought into the game, that stuff can stay in soccer and fencing. Admittedly Argentina is an established rugby nation, but as the game expands into new frontiers; especially into nations where the play-acting, feigning injury and asking-for-cards behaviour of soccer is the only known sports-culture; the on-field culture of rugby sportsmanship has to be retained. IRB/World Rugby has to look at this as a problem.

And that's coming from a soccer fan.

[andrewg]

I'm getting a bit tired of the apologists and zealots for Will Skelton.

Have just put these comments up on G&GR and am interested in the feedback.
What do TWFers think?

5 things we learned from the Puma Test

re SKELTON SMASH

I acknowledge the potential of Will Skelton and what he MAY bring to the Wallabies.
His best aspects are very good and not offered by many other players. I have stats on his games over the past 12 months (SXV and Tests). IMO, at this stage, we don’t see his best often enough to justify his ongoing selection over players such as Arnold, Jones or Coleman. Certainly not for this RWC but he’s young enough to be a force for the 2019 RWC.
In his G&GR Lock assessment, TWAS struggled to provide sound justification for Skelton’s selection.

Skelton put in a poor performance against the Boks and it wasn’t that much better against the Pumas.
May I respectfully suggest that keen Skelton supporters watch the Puma’s test again and just focus on Skelton.
This is what you will see:
TACKLING: He was credited with 9 Tackles. Apart from frequently tackling players without the ball you will see few tackles without assistance. There was the single dominant tackle on Diaz late in the game (73:46) which has lots of WOW factor but didn’t change the game. At 51:22 he makes a move on a lone scrum half in possession and, rather than wrap him up in a dominant tackle, eventually grabs his jersey but doesn’t prevent the eventual successful offload. He has made 13 of 16 tackle attempts in 2 Tests (81%). In 1.6 games that makes nearly 2 missed tackles per game.
BALL CARRIES: He was credited with 5 carries for 30 metres. Skelton made 4 of his 5 ball carries in the first half. The 5th was at 49 minutes. In 3 of his runs he was brought down by a single tackler. 2 tacklers were involved in 2 of his runs. His ZERO offloads and ZERO passes meant that little was made of his carries.
DISCIPLINE: His constant tackling of players without the ball is a liability. He opens himself up to be penalised a lot more. I also have concerns about his “friendly fire” hits during cleanouts upon his team mates. The best example of this was at 15:35 when his cleanout of Fardy (on Fardy’s side) opened up the ruck to a Puma turn over. The other example was his head-high hold in the ruck which reversed a penalty right in front of goal (3 points maybe). At 4:42 Skelton cleanouts a Puma player with a big hit from behind. Not my preference from any player.
FITNESS: Skelton has proved that he can stay on the park for 80 minutes. BUT, he loses most of his effectiveness from 50 minutes after which he gets into shuffle mode and struggles to get back on side or to the contact zones. No more ball carries and marked drop-off in tackle and ruck involvement.
LINEOUTS: Skelton has had a single LOW in 132 minutes. Skelton is doing more lifting in the ruck. BUT he is no more capable of doing this than other Locks.
MONSTER IN MAULS? Perhaps at SXV level. Simmons appears to be the controller of the Wallaby mauls. The Boks won 7 of 8 mauls against the Wallabies. Argentina lost their single maul but Skelton didn’t appear to make a dominant contribution.
Skelton MAY be capable of having an impact against lesser teams but IMO his positive contributions are far outweighed by his negative impacts and he will be shown up by the quality opposition that is in front of the Wallabies for the rest of 2015. The Wallabies would gain more benefit from blooding the other Lock possibilities.

[GIGS20]

Ummmm, yup!

[Alison]

You are my hero AndrewG!!

The thing that gets me is how a player who is not (yet?) at the top of his game gets consistently selected in our national team. When has that ever happened before?