Tuna

[.X.]

Wayne Smith from The Australian wrote "It’s difficult to know how to categorise the Western Force but “underachieving overachievers” would not be too far off the mark. To explain: the Force have a pretty modest playing roster, which goes a long way to explaining why they have one win from seven matches this season. There are in their match-day 23 about eight or nine players who would struggle to get a run with any other Super Rugby franchise."

Its been bugging me for a couple of days now. I have read and re-read the article a couple of time since. The Western Force supporter in me doesn't like it. I have supported the Western Force since day one. I am the 55th member of this website. I have travelled to Perth to watch games in person. I have a tattoo of the Western Force LOGO on my back. I have been a lover of the sport of Ruby Union for about 20 years now. and an administrator of Club Rugby in the Northern Territory and NSW for 12 years.

As an administrator I have from time to time been involved with the recruitment of players to come and play for my club. Its interesting listening to a players hopes and dreams. I can't imagine it is anything like the contract negotiations that the Management of the Western Force go through. But I am sure that there are some similarities.

I have come to the realisation that the Western Force, My team - our team is the fish that John West reject.

We don't get the number 1 draft pick. There is no draft. We get the players that cant make it to the run on side of the Reds, Tahs and Brumbies but they want to play professional Rugby. We have our Marquee players and it helps. But do we get Marquee players or do we get a Half-Back from New Zealand who couldn't get a run in New Zealand? Our development players that we recruit, are they the best we can get or are the ones that can't get a run in South Africa or New Zealand. Like a 5/8th that has brain explosions and misses Penalty Kicks from in front.

Now we do, on occasion find a kid that is a world beater. We have a very good history of spotting talent and developing it. David Pocock, James O'Connor, Kyle Godwin, Ben McCalmain and Matt Hodgson. What we cant do is retain this talent. Once we have done all the hard work One of the big 3 will come in and offer something we cant, and boom they are gone.

Whilst we do have the 4th and 5th best players in the country across the board - they play for us, they play out of their skin for each other and they never quit. And this is why I love them and will continue to do so.

2014 was a stand out year for us. Our Successes were extraordinary and we nearly made the finals. I think what happened last year caught our opposition by surprise. I don't think we can surprise teams any more- they now know we can play.

If we are to have any success in terms of making the finals I don't think that we can do it without some assistance from the ARU. Otherwise we will always be the team that is full of players that the other teams don't want. And if we don't get this assistance from the ARU - our local talent that we developed will be enticed to move east as well.

[Alison]

Great post Exile!

[Ham105]

Yep. Good post.

The contracting system needs to change. The so-called salary cap is a joke when the big teams bypass it via ARU top-ups.

The other dynamic is developing the local pathways. It's starting to show pro players coming online now after a decade of the Force but a production line doesn't happen overnight. They need to keep investing there. The Perth Spirit and the WA U20s are a big part of that.

[Tazzmania]

Exceptional post, and laying bare what we know in our heads but do not want to believe.

[Kept One]

Yep. Good post.

The contracting system needs to change. The so-called salary cap is a joke when the big teams bypass it via ARU top-ups.

The other dynamic is developing the local pathways. It's starting to show pro players coming online now after a decade of the Force but a production line doesn't happen overnight. They need to keep investing there. The Perth Spirit and the WA U20s are a big part of that.

Not only that but the WA Under 15s just won the national title and the Under 17s narrowly lost in their final. If we are able to keep some of this talent and channel it through the Force development process our future looks to be rosier in terms of recruitment. It will take time, however the signs are good that local rugby is growing talent that will strengthen the Force down the track.

[Alison]

I totally agree Kept One, the signs are excellent. But unless the ARU pay & contracting conditions change, we will end up breeding them, blooding them, making them into Wallaby prospects and then losing them to other teams who have more money. While I love the fact that WA is producing such great talent, it seriously shits me that they way things are at present, we (WA) won't ever get to both see them AND keep them while they're at the top of their game. Sorry, but I just can't get over it!

[Ham105]

Not only that but the WA Under 15s just won the national title and the Under 17s narrowly lost in their final. If we are able to keep some of this talent and channel it through the Force development process our future looks to be rosier in terms of recruitment. It will take time, however the signs are good that local rugby is growing talent that will strengthen the Force down the track.

Yep. Good signs at the Junior Gold Cup levels and these players will feed into the club comps and rep programs, although I don't get too carried away with the teams winning the final. WA *should* be making the finals every year, or go close (and the same can be said for ACT and the Vics) because NSW and QLD have about 8 teams each.

But if these sides from the Southern states keep winning then maybe they will all get second teams!

[Rex Messup]

Well here's the way a winning culture is developed and success becomes the norm.

1. Don't take the Fish that John West reject. If recruitment of players that will never make the grade continues, the club will always be second rate. The recruitment needs to be better.

2. We need a world class 2, 3, 9, 10, 12 and 15. World class. Go and get them. Don't compromise on "the spine". The selection criteria is pretty simple. Are they the best in the world (or arguably close to the best) in this position. If the answer is "no"...don't sign them. Don't fill the roster with carnts that can't play to make up the numbers. If you make up the numbers, you will always be just making up the numbers.

3. The junior system needs elite coaching and development pathways. Hire elite junior coaches for the junior age teams. Our 9-12 year old players are as good as anywhere else in the world. Grow your own wallabies has to be the long term goal (yes GIGS you niggly fark, I said buy good players).....but there needs to be better development of youth.

4. Fark the eastern states. Fark the ARU. The club and the fans have a welfare mentality......we need special circumstances, we need draft players, we need special circumstances, we need , we need, we need, we have our pants down and our hands out, please don't poke us in the ass anymore. This welfare poverty mentality isn't what build a winning organisation.

5. RSA is a goldmine. There is talent everywhere and not enough teams. They don't go to League or AFL either. They play rugby. A lot of them want an opportunity and possible citizenship in Oz and are content to call WA home due to the political circumstances at home and the now race based selection criteria of super rugby teams and the Bokkes. We have every advantage.........it's time we opened our eyes to the opportunity. Yes we have snagged a few players. There are better ones.

6. If they don't meet the ARU criteria for selection, pinch them between 16-18 years, develop them and get their citizenship by 19. Infiltate them into the club scene that is so "expanded and shite" according to our screaming Lefty mate Fulvio. "too many clubs, not enough talent rah farking rah.....have to drive 30 minutes for a farking game rah farking rah"........ small thinking bullsh1t. Fill the clubs with the best talent from RSA. Find them jobs, homes, buillets........get them citizenship. Find the solution. = thriving club comp full of the best young talent in the world that will become Australian citizens by age 20. Sh1t even the mungoes are doing it...pinching talented kids from the country and getting them schooled and billeted in safe houses in the city. European sooker clubs pinch talented teenagers from around the world for their youth academies. Think big, take action

7. Stop standing around with our hands on our dicks expecting the ARU to solve our problems. Grow some balls and make some radical game changing ideas come to fruition.

8. Stop blaming the ARU for our poor recruitment, poor results, and hopeless mindset. The Force have a victim mentality and get hammered by everybody including referees.

9. Expect higher standards, better players and better performances.

10. take action instead of waiting another 10 years with our pants around our ankles.

Rex

[Rex Messup]

11. Sack Wykes

[MI5_Dog]

as soon as you come up with the money to do all this Rex I'm sure that the force will be happy to implement it.

[palitu]

There does seem to be a bunch of that stuff happening. but in the mean time they need to put a team on the paddock week in week out.

and a lot of it seems to be a money constraint. can't do it all with nothing unfortunately.

[valzc]

You guys are all talking as though the team we have aren't any good - didn't hear any complaints when they were going well last year! We have a good team already - maybe you can throw in a few stars, Christ knows that's really worked in the past NOT! I really think the problem is a mental one which I thought had finally been sorted out last season, and getting the basics right like passing, kicking and running fast! To me this is a coaching issue more than the players, they've already proven what they can achieve simply when they get their heads in the right place. And anyway we have still to see what the new recruits can do - if they ever get any game time FFS!

[.X.]

You guys are all talking as though the team we have aren't any good - didn't hear any complaints when they were going well last year!

As I said in my original post.

they play for us, they play out of their skin for each other and they never quit.

The team is as good as it is. Last year was a stellar season for us. A break out season.

In my humble opinion with the players that we have, we can not do any better than what we did last year. As Rex outlined we need to find World Class 2,3,9,10,12 and 15.

Our Coaching is spot on, our game plans are correct for our skill and talent level. Our Game plans have won us games that our skill level had us losing. It is what it is.

[GIGS20]

In my humble opinion with the players that we have, we can not do any better than what we did last year. As Rex outlined we need to find World Class 2,3,9,10,12 and 15.

OK, world class players
2 - Cheese played Wallaby Football last year, was behind TPN and Squeek Moore admittedly, but is amongst the best in the nation. Since we have to name a majority of our team as Wallaby eligible, he would rate as world class since Moore is unavailable and TPN is a liability
3 - again Tets played Wallabies last year, copy and paste the last bit of Cheese's comment here.
9 - Alby would be arguably world class, only a 1 test AllBlack, but that counts for more than several tests as a Wallaby. I think Prior is doing a better job in lots of ways.
10 - OK this one needs work
12 - Should be Kyle, he's on the fringe, not there yet, but he could be worked with, Burton isn't all that bad.....we could possibly buy a 12, but I wouldn't call it drastic
15 - Dane again on the fringes of being one of the better ones in the country. We won't get Folau and he's the world class fullback in a gold jersey.

So, in Essense, the blame really comes onto the backline again, but it's the forwards who are getting hammered in the ones that look ugly. I don't know what the answer is, but it's more than personnel

[Rex Messup]

as soon as you come up with the money to do all this Rex I'm sure that the force will be happy to implement it.

The CEO needs to be accountable. It is the responsibility of the CEO to make the franchise successful and to generate the revenue to be able to attract and retain world class talent. If you hire a person capable of fulfilling this job description, it gets done. If you hire someone who is happy with mediocrity, happy to buck pass and blame everybody else and is happy to make excuses and shrug and say there is no money.........well you have a completely f_cked franchise that loses all the time and has a sh1te playing roster and the fans get the shits and the whole place is a negative cluster f_ck of buck passers, excuse makers and whinging shit for brains playing soggy sao and not coming up with the solutions to the challenges.

You need a CEO who is going to play above the line.........improvise, adapt, overcome. Come up with solutions instead of excuses. Solve problems instead of sticking the hand out to the ARU.

That's what world class CEO's do

We have a good coach and a sprinkling of talent. They punch above their weight but they don't win.

There is a culture of mediocity and that starts in the front office.

I'm farking sick of it. The world is full of really good players.......and we have at least ten that shouldn't be in professional rugby starting in the match day 22.........and it's everybody elses fault except the people who can't make the business profitable and can't attract and recruit, develop and retain talent.

The welfare minded prefer to blame everybody else and make excuses and demand handouts and expect everybody else to fix the problems. It doesn't work like that.

It is rumored that players fly to Perth to check out the organisation and nobody picks them up from the airport. WTF?

You change adapt, improve.........or you die

I was looking forwards to the season after a great effort last year, beating the Brumbies in the trial and the Tahs game 1. It has turned to sh1t.

If you have incompetents running the organisation, the problems don't get solved.......and the team is shite.

You might be OK with that DOG, but I've had enough.