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Thread: Hunt impresses at 10 vs Crusaders

  1. #16
    Immortal GIGS20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shasta View Post
    Your theory would seem to say that those players wete contracted for up to 7 years and selected ahead of more deserving players, under 3 different coaches and selectors to get RL bums on seats. Really?
    Yes-essentially, I actually think its about media hype, marketability and sponsorship, but it boils down to the same idea.

    What happens is, they sign a bloke, under massive fanfare, designed to be a marketing coup, and then play him to make the most of the pr money they have thrown at it.....it appears that, even if the performance isn't worth it (my best example of that particular case is Mat Rogers, but Lote and Wendell aren't immune) they keep playing him, because the PR machine has built him up to be the saviour.......I think the same thing is occurring with Kurtley Beale, his performances do little to justify his selection or his contract, but he still gets the gig because the ARU don't want media egg on their face and Fox Sports pretty much exclusively fund Aussie rugby. That results in in the untenable situation where ratings become more important than winning matches, the League saviours are only one example of the disease, and Karmichael Hunt is merely the latest in a long line of leaguies who has signed a contract (probably in very good faith on his part) which shouldn't include an ARU component.

    Quote Originally Posted by shasta View Post
    You, of course disagree. And probably will continue to do, no matter what Hunt, Folau and others achieve. Fair enough.
    Actually, I think you'll find my tone about Israel Folau has changed a couple of times.....when he was selected in the Wallabies after a promising, but shaky first season with the tahs I was critical. I then started to support him when he proved himself to be capable in the International arena. In his second season, once the Rugby Championship started he lost his way and I started to call for him to be benched until he got his mojo back, he started to play like a rugby union winger again later in that season and I started to support him again. My support for any player into the Wallabies is based upon their merit to hold the position (ok it's my opinion of that) not on what Fox Sports tell me. I am simply holding Karmichael Hunt to the same standard.

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    I'm with Tonkar. The Badger would be the best known Australian rugby player in the world... by a mile.

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  3. #18
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    To say that none of them are successful because didnt go their way is wrong. If what your saying is true then all wallabies in the last 15 years are just as unsuccesful and no one deserves a pay packet

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    Quote Originally Posted by sloppy View Post
    To say that none of them are successful because didnt go their way is wrong. If what your saying is true then all wallabies in the last 15 years are just as unsuccesful and no one deserves a pay packet
    I wouldn't argue too strongly with that, however the discussion was about unknown quantities getting an ARU contract and being played in the Wallabies without having shown any real potential.

    I would contend that the League players being picked to learn the game in the International arena is only one part of an overall strategy which seems to be more predicated on PR and marketing potential than it is on actual ability to play the game.

    Think about it, why do you think more players from the Tahs are perennially picked in the Wallabies? Apart from last year, when they performed well, the tahs were fragile and bumbling, yet they get picked........I contend that it is because of marketing, NSW being the biggest TV market in the country, they work hard to shore up those ratings. Why don't many Force players get picked? it's because they aren't as marketable, NSW people, for the most part, would see them as turncoats (I know that's the Queensland position anyway) and that makes the sponsors want to shy away.

    Even a cult hero lie the Honeybadger isn't all that marketable in a corporate sense, given that he (whilst being quirky and funny) doesn't present a clean-cut media-savvy face for companies to attach their brand to.....He actually seems to relish sticking it up the common conventions and saying pretty much what he wants.....another poor rugby decision made for PR reasons.

    What really grinds my gears is the fact that we easily have the playing staff in this country to be number 2 in the world and, with some time and effort, might be able to consistently challenge the AllBlacks, however at every turn, the ARU seem to choose the short-term answer of keeping Fox Sports and their sponsor base happy over the long term gain of becoming a genuine world power in the sport and turning the sponsorship market around into a seller's market.

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    Immortal Contributor shasta's Avatar
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    Try coming at it (just for the current Mungo usurper)from another direction GIGS. When was the last time we had a genuine game breaker at 10? One who has X-factor attack and an imposing presence on defence? You can't dominate the top 2 without one. I think it's worth a shot on what I've seen. HB wad poorly treated. He's more charismatic than the Mungo but he is one of many with his skillset.

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    Think about it from my perspective Shasta.

    If he IS the game breaking wunderkind you suggest he might be we'll probably have seen that before the test season. If he shows the form give him the jersey.

    Up until that point this is nothing more than media hype and speculation.

    but in reality this beat up is no different than picking Cooper or Beale ahead of Foley.

    Foley was easily the best flyhalf running around last season, but he didn't have the corporate dollar and the media pushing his case. Why? well the media didn't push him because they didn't have him on contract, whereas Cooper (and to a lesser extent Beale) were already hooked.

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    Immortal Contributor shasta's Avatar
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    I've never proposed giving players an automatic selection. Sailor didn't get that and AFAIK neither has Hunt. He's only contracted to the Reds right(?). Foley is the best available. But a journeyman in my eyes. Leaving anyway. I can't see anyone else really making a demanding case. Definitely worth a shot. Can't remember, but I seem to remember the "top-up" wasn't megabucks, was it?

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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by shasta View Post
    I've never proposed giving players an automatic selection. Sailor didn't get that and AFAIK neither has Hunt. He's only contracted to the Reds right(?). Foley is the best available. But a journeyman in my eyes. Leaving anyway. I can't see anyone else really making a demanding case. Definitely worth a shot. Can't remember, but I seem to remember the "top-up" wasn't megabucks, was it?
    I'm not sure if Sailor got an automatic start, but he definitely played well beyond his use-by date. As for the walk up start, it's more a concern based upon the hype that surrounded Issy Folau a couple of seasons ago. He was build up as a virtual automatic inclusion even before the season started....it took him a fair bit of the first year to find his feet and he didn't play awesome rugby at the time. The danger is that since Izzy is now a genuine contender for his place and probably the best option in that position that they will think their risky strategy of playing him too early was a success and try it with all and sundry.

    Izzy Folau is a special individual to have made such an impact given the circumstances in which he learned the game.

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    Karmichael Hunt has already played Rugby Union fairly succesfully. Plodders don't win Heineken Cups.

    Folau was an atuomatic slection for the First Test vs the Lions when he made his debut. Unless you think Beale or O'Conner would have gone better at Fullback.

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    The fact that Karmichael was a union player before is the key. I'd love to see more ex-union guys brought back into the fold.

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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by jargan83 View Post
    Karmichael Hunt has already played Rugby Union fairly succesfully. Plodders don't win Heineken Cups.

    Folau was an atuomatic slection for the First Test vs the Lions when he made his debut. Unless you think Beale or O'Conner would have gone better at Fullback.
    In hindsight most people will agree that he was the best option, however his form in the Super Rugby season leading up to it showed he was still learning the ropes. We were lucky that he was a good enough athlete to make the transition with the best opposition in the world running at him.....it's naive to think everybody can do that.

    Look, if he has a blistering start to the season and earns a spot, good luck to him....I think that's the part of this discussion you all are missing here. I just think he needs to show himself capable before being selected. We all know the SH game is a different equation than Europe, nowhere more so than at 10. A Heineken cup win is a good indication, but it will be trumped the fist Tim Aaron Cruden makes him look silly when he plays the chiefs...etc

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