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Thread: Australia V Wales

  1. #1
    Champion Rex Messup's Avatar
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    Australia V Wales

    The first test is upon us. There is plenty of work to do after a very disappointing rugby championship, an internal crisis, a change of coaching staff and a public tired of off field incidents and poor performances.

    The barbarians fixture wasn't a signature performance and shwed some worrying cracks.

    Wales will be a very hard team to beat in Cardiff.

    15. Folau
    14. Speight
    13. Kuridrani
    12. Toomua
    11. Ashley-Cooper
    10. Foley
    9. Phipps
    8. McCalman
    7. Hooper
    6. Mcmahon (assuming Higgers is out with his hamstring injury)
    5. Horwill (I'm not a Simmons fan) but we are thin on for locks. Horwill brings more physicality
    4. Carter ( by default - not many locks in the touring party. I don't thnk Jones is ready for this level)
    3. Kepu
    2. Faingaa - again by default. Last man standing selection
    1. Slipper (or swap Slipper and Kepu)

    16. Hanson - by default ( no one else - Josh Man Rae (dead set???)
    17 Alexander - by default
    18. Robinson - by default
    19. Skelton
    20. Hodgson
    21. Genia - (Nick White kicks too much good ball away and takes too many poor options)
    22. Cooper - covers 10/12/15 - Folau can play wing
    23. Lealifano - cover 12/13


    Our pack is a massive weakness. We will struggle on this tour. The set piece has been poor. The srum worryingly susceptible if we have to change props and there is just a lack of impact and sting from the locks. The backline is very dangerous if they get ball. Our bench has not contributed a lot which is why we are losing tests in the last 15 minutes.

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    I reckon we'd get minced in the line-out if you rolled that team out. If you want to start McMahon, you can't have Skelton and Hodgson on the bench. Otherwise you will get to the point where you only have one good jumper. Either start Luke Jones at 6 or put him or Simmons on the bench in place of Skelton.

    Skelton will weaken our scrum and line-out. He simply isn't worth it. Our backs will score tries if we match it in the forwards. Why compromise set piece ball by having Skelton on the field? Particularly in the last 20 minutes or so when, if we are behind on the scoreboard we could be locked out of the game with careful tactical kicking.

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    Champion andrewg's Avatar
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    Wow...be still my beating heart....

    Will Skelton had 29 minutes against the Barbarians and stats as follows: 4 tackles, 4 runs for 2 m, 1 x defender beaten.

    It will be a brave coach who starts McMahon in a Test rather than on the bench. Suggest that a back row of Hodgson, Hooper & McCalman is more likely.

    Generally in agreement with the rest of your selections RM but the 2 x Bens skating on very thin ice. Terrible against the Barbarians.
    Fianga'a also had a shocker but his previous 2 have been excellent.

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    Player Kev's Avatar
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    why would you start Hooper with in form mcMahon & Hodgson ?
    Wales by 12

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    Start Hodgo on for 45, then bring on Hooper.
    Ball retention and possession to start and Hooper to come on when the game opens up.
    I know this poses a captaincy and on-field leadership issue, but just a suggestion.

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    Champion Rex Messup's Avatar
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    Hooper will start because he is the captain........dead set.

    Skelton is so big he can't jump but he could lift a smaller man 12 feet in the air and be an unbeatable option. It's about getting creative.

    We can also use shorter lineouts like the good ole days when we had such things as innovation, creative ideas, set piece moves....short lineouts. Fark me, rugby has become so predictable that players can't even think of this stuff anymore. Put Skelton at halfback and use a 2 man lineout. There is about 20 different options from this arrangement alone. How many farking lineouts will there be? Dead set easy stuff. Why can't anybody think of this sh1t anymore? Too much narrow thinking. We used to be a rugby IQ above other nations now we take it up the @rse watching everybody else bamboozle us.....edit (did they change the rules about numbers in lineouts or something? can the other team stack it if you only have 2 for example? I'm a dinosaur after all. Maybe it doesn't work with the modern rule book? Some nancy like Gigs will google it. Thanks)

    How high do you reckon Skelton could lift mcMahon or Hooper?

    I agree we are road kill at lineout time......in a traditional full lineout. We are absolute toilet with a full lineout and 3 jumpers anyway. Picking Simmons may help us win a few lineouts but lose just about every other contest on the field. He's farking useless. If Skelton gets low in the scrum with his feet back, our scrum isn't going backwards. I disagree he is a poor scrummager. he's a human monolith with the strength of 3 average men. We have to use his strengths. he is a disgusting fat body but a point of difference player coming off the bench. He smashes people and carries the ball over the advantage line in heavy traffic and can unload the football.

    Mcmahon wasn't on my radar until the Barbarians game. The kid put his hand up. He is outstanding. If you are good enough, you are old enough. He was a class above every other Australian forward. He was dynamic. He had more impact than any other forward on the park. I haven't been this impressed since Wayne Pearce got a start for the 1982 Kangaroos Invincibles as an 18 year old that belted Great Britain in the old dart. McMahon is that good. He starts. He is a traditional 7 (although the Rebels have him listed as a blindside flanker) - This makes the balance of our backrow questionable.......but who plays 6? McMahon is listed as 100Kg and 186cm. He's still a kid. He will put another 10Kg of muscle on oer the next few years of professional training. We don't have a good six anyway and Higgers pulled a hammy. If his hammy is OK, Higgers will play 6 and McMahon on the bench. The kid is good to go. Give him a chance at 6. The Welsh won't know what has hit them

    I'd have to say however, our pack is pretty ordinary.

    The two Ben's are on the bench because there is nobody else. Faulkner isn't ready. Sio and Cowan and Paddy Ryan were left at home.

    I was impressed with the big unit playing loose head for Brisbane city. Washizname? How come these big bad boys don't get called up in Australian rugby...........oh yeah, we prefer props that are "mobile" ie shirk the hard stuff, can't scrum, don't hurt anybody but look good seagulling on the end of a backline. Apologies to Slipper. I have been very impressed with his carries, scrummaging, clean out and stinging defence.

    Our pack really is below par.

    I have optimism based on nothing more than hope that Cheika will get our pack fit and get them to be more physical. I expect he will make personel changes over the next year.

    The next month will be intriguing

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    Last edited by Rex Messup; 02-11-14 at 18:54.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rex Messup View Post
    Hooper will start because he is the captain........dead set.

    Skelton is so big he can't jump but he could lift a smaller man 12 feet in the air and be an unbeatable option. It's about getting creative.

    We can also use shorter lineouts like the good ole days when we had such things as innovation, creative ideas, set piece moves....short lineouts. Fark me, rugby has become so predictable that players can't even think of this stuff anymore. Put Skelton at halfback and use a 2 man lineout. There is about 20 different options from this arrangement alone. How many farking lineouts will there be? Dead set easy stuff. Why can't anybody think of this sh1t anymore? Too much narrow thinking. We used to be a rugby IQ above other nations now we take it up the @rse watching everybody else bamboozle us.....edit (did they change the rules about numbers in lineouts or something? can the other team stack it if you only have 2 for example? I'm a dinosaur after all. Maybe it doesn't work with the modern rule book? Some nancy like Gigs will google it. Thanks)

    How high do you reckon Skelton could lift mcMahon or Hooper?

    I agree we are road kill at lineout time......in a traditional full lineout. We are absolute toilet with a full lineout and 3 jumpers anyway. Picking Simmons may help us win a few lineouts but lose just about every other contest on the field. He's farking useless. If Skelton gets low in the scrum with his feet back, our scrum isn't going backwards. I disagree he is a poor scrummager. he's a human monolith with the strength of 3 average men. We have to use his strengths. he is a disgusting fat body but a point of difference player coming off the bench. He smashes people and carries the ball over the advantage line in heavy traffic and can unload the football.
    You are talking about attacking line-outs only. Don't underestimate the value of putting pressure on the opposition line-out. Skelton is pretty handy at maul defence in that instance at least. But on the attacking line-outs, using shorter line-outs is often fraught with risk- it is harder to deceive your opponents because it is often very clear who the target is and the only question is where they will jump. The ball is then less likely to be clean and less likely to be won in a position where it can be quickly transferred to the backs. There is further advantage in tying up the majority of the opposition forwards in one section of the field.

    How many line-outs will there be? I would guess around 15-20. If we have a line-out with only two jumpers, it would be on the higher side. Why wouldn't you kick for territory if you have more options in the line-out?

    Will Skelton is only 3cm taller than Simmons. In terms of lifting height, you wouldn't see much difference if they were lifting McMahon or Hooper except that I'll bet Simmons would do it faster. Also, on the scrummaging side, watch the Waratahs games when Skelton is on the field. The scrum improves when he comes off or diminishes when he comes on. He isn't a great scrummager. Its a fact. Now to be fair this is his first season and he will improve but he really does come at a cost that needs to be balanced out.

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  8. #8
    Champion Rex Messup's Avatar
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    A full man lineout in this wallaby team is a lottery. They can't even work out who it is going to half the time. In the 50% of times they lift the right jumper the throw is crooked or the opposition steal it. We have never been so bad at lineouts. If we had world class timber, I would agree with you. We don't so we need to come up with smart options to use what we have got instead of trying to compete in a traditional blinkered fashion against lineouts that are better than us and destroy our set piece. It's like taking candy from babies and makes our backline twitchy. They have to be nervous about attacking plays when they know they might have to defend.

    You can have a lot of variation with a short lineout. If you move fast and do it well, the opposition is always a step behind because they have to react. An action potential has to be generated along peripheral nerves allowing a split second to take an advantage....or you could just stand Skelton at the front and throw it to him every time and watch him swat them like flies. Might is right when there is no lifters....just saying we could be a bit more creative to cover our obvious limitations. We wouldn't have to carry a useless shite in our pack because he is the "lineout caller" FFS.

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    Simmons isn't as bad as you make him out to be. A full line-out for us is not as bad as a lottery. It isn't the best it has been but we haven't had the luxury of having a stable hooker and Simmons has been out due to injury/concussion a bit. Smart options are all well and good but they get cottoned onto quickly and countered. Throwing to Skelton at the front will work once maybe twice a game. You can't sacrifice the line-out or you'll end up in the same position we find ourselves with the scrum.

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    I am still trying to find why Skelton? Besides his bulk and one great offload to Izzy against France, I see little value. When he does take the ball up, I see very little if any leg drive - he hits and then drops to ground and takes forever to get back up off the deck. Locks have to improve their athleticism - watch Rettalick and see the speed at which he gets back to his feet, his leg drive causes all sorts of headaches for defenders.

    Benny Mac at 8 for me all day every day. He plays No.8 perfectly, makes yards off the back of the scrum ( I do think he should be used more in that capacity) his desperate last line of defence is great, he carries the ball well in contact, does not engage in "hail Mary - Higgers" offloads and attempted intercepts.

    MacMahon - get him a mentor - he is Hot Hot Hot.

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    WALLABY newcomer Sean McMahon was expecting to be in Mexico with his mates this weekend, instead he might be making his Test debut against Wales in Cardiff.

    The Melbourne Rebels’ back-rower, coming off a year he didn’t think could get much better, made such an impact coming off the bench for injured Scott Higginbotham against the Barbarians that coach Michael Cheika has declared him a strong contender for a spot in the opening international of the Wallabies Spring tour.

    “I thought he was outstanding,” Cheika said.

    “He got on the field and took his opportunity with both hands. There’s an opening in the back-row now for the Test next week. He’s definitely put himself right up there.”

    Despite being named Super Rugby rookie of the ear, captaining the Australian under-20s side and winning a bronze medal for sevens at the Glasgow Commonwealth Games, McMahon was so certain he wouldn’t make the Wallaby touring squad that he booked a trip to Mexico with some Rebels teammates.

    “I knew I’d had a good year” he said.

    “I was stoked and happy with the year I’d had but I wasn’t expecting to be selected for the Wallabies.

    “I booked the trip to Mexico and then got the call up two days before we flew out. I was really excited, especially telling mum and dad. I’m still speechless.”

    At 20 the youngest player on tour, McMahon felt it would be little more than a learning experience, watching the older, more established players battle out the four Tests.

    But Cheika, like McMahon, is a newcomer to the squad and not bound by any preconceived ideas about pecking order.

    “He said ’I’m going to give few of youse an opportunity against the Barbarians to show me what you’ve got,” McMahon said.

    http://www.news.com.au/sport/rugby/s...-1227110146856

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    Immortal GIGS20's Avatar
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    Would Hodgo be a better fit, considering that Hooper has the other flank stitched up?

    Just Sayin is all

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    Last edited by GIGS20; 03-11-14 at 20:53.
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    Champion Rex Messup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    Simmons isn't as bad as you make him out to be.
    Shall we get a kiwi opinion?
    Ok
    Any cuzy bros care to enlighten us on how Simmons is rated across the Tasman?

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    Senior Player Herbasimplex's Avatar
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    Thought Skelton played well for the time for was on the park against the barbarians. Yeah not great in the line out but i think he has a quality relating to his bulk and presence which has an effect on opposition teams. A certain je ne sais quoi. I would give him 30 min at the start of the match just to soften and tire the opposing pack and disrupt their maul.

    We have won some tight ones against the Welsh which has really deflated them. They will try and correct that by playing direct without much creativity and rely on that and their goal kicking so they can just get over the line against us put a tick in the win column on their chalkboard. We can actually win this by getting the ball to the backs at the appropriate times. Just hope our scrum doesn't get smashed.

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    It could be a shame to get some facts into the discussion about the Australian Lineout effectiveness.

    However, in reality it hasn't been all that bad (except for the 2nd game against Argentina)

    Barbarians

    Australia - Won 14 Lost 1 (93%) and won 3 of 8 Barbarian throws.

    All Blacks

    Australia - Won 12 Lost 1 (92%). 0 wins against NZ throw.

    Argentina

    Australia - Won 11 Lost 3 (79%). Won 3 of 6 Argentina throws.

    South Africa

    Australia 0 Won 8 Lost 1 (89%). 0 wins against SA throw.


    In the last 3 Tests/1st Class Games result has been:

    Australia - Won 45 Lost 6 - 88%.

    Won 6 from 38 Opposition throws - 16% (But Zero against NZ or South Africa).

    So in reality the results for Australian throws at 88% is far better than a "lottery" and we need to lift our game against the best opposition.

    The frustrating aspect for us all is that the Wallabies work hard to get into the oppositions half and then fail to drive it home. Most lineouts lost are when the Wallabies are in an a strong attacking position.

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