Foley the driving force for change

[AndyS]

I was thinking more Moono's point about finding a Speight or Nadolo. I have no problem if we find or develop players that can turn games, but even if we do I hope we never fall into the trap of relying on them. We went down that path buying them with Giteau et al, then relying on ones we built with Pocock and O'Connor. All good players, all able to win games on their day, but it simply isn't feasible for any player to carry a team through a season. We need a group that can capitalise when any player fires, but have the game to win anyway when the going gets tough and they all have to collectively dig deep.

[Moono74]

I was thinking more Moono's point about finding a Speight or Nadolo. I have no problem if we find or develop players that can turn games, but even if we do I hope we never fall into the trap of relying on them. We went down that path buying them with Giteau et al, then relying on ones we built with Pocock and O'Connor. All good players, all able to win games on their day, but it simply isn't feasible for any player to carry a team through a season. We need a group that can capitalise when any player fires, but have the game to win anyway when the going gets tough and they all have to collectively dig deep.

The guys you talk about Giteau, JOC maybe had character flaws and weren't team players. Pocock....well we either didn't have a good enough supporting cast and we also suffered from bad coaching and less than stellar management. The problem with the Force has been not having the star player, great supporting players, great coaching and top line management all in place at the one time.

[Macattack]

We now have a solid foundation that we need to build upon and take to the next level. For me #1 is further developing the 2014 great attitude and confidence (I reckon Hodgo and Foles will see to that). In terms of players/positions I feel the most important are, replace KBomb with a quality prop and get some more threat in the inside backs so Kyle gets more room to play with - either a threatening fly half or a very hard running outside centre who can draw two defenders. Personally I would place these as higher priorities than a gun winger. Good positional wingers who can defend well and kick out of trouble would do me if we can get much more threat on the inside.

I know Sias has improved this year and I congratulate him on that, however, too often he looks like a frightened young man out there. Perhaps I can settle for him being solely a distributor if he does it well and he has genuine threats outside him.

[GIGS20]

Pocock....well we either didn't have a good enough supporting cast and we also suffered from bad coaching and less than stellar management..

re Bam, I think he's past his best......I think (either through his own poor decisions or poor advice) he's concentrated too much on bulk and that has caused him to be eclipsed by Hooper. I think Hooper looks the same as a young David Pocock, who was a world beater, but now with Dave having fragile knees and being seriously short of pace, Hooper is a genuine challenger....

I know Sias has improved this year and I congratulate him on that, however, too often he looks like a frightened young man out there. Perhaps I can settle for him being solely a distributor if he does it well and he has genuine threats outside him.

I think Sias will need to step up significantly if we don't get a big threat outside him. I feel that, even with the HoneyBadger out wide there just wasn't enough out there. It may just have been that the supporting cast wasn't good enough, we were able to beat the best teams in the comp when our starting back three were fit, but once Mozza went down we seemed to stutter. I know that sounds like I'm bagging Dane, but I hadn't intended it that way.....maybe that's the answer....I dunno, that's why they pay Foles the big bucks. Unlike our back Row, our back three doesn't perform as well when one player is injured.....let's look to build on the momentum of 2014 and get a team player who can become a superstar out there.

[AndyS]

I still think we focus far to much on the players, holding our breath for the day we have a backline full of threats. If we are reliant on one or two key positional players, the implication of that is that injuries will cripple the line unless the entire bench is equally good yet somehow quite happy to ride pine. These are all elite level footballers and the personnel should be far secondary to the understanding and tactics they play with - it doesn't matter who they are, if they kick all possession away and/or stand in a static line taking the ball flat-footed then playing one out hit-up ball, they'll lose. This year has demonstrated that the guys we have are big and strong enough to go toe-to-toe in defence, which is far the most physical aspect. The same line should all be good enough to execute intelligent attack and good tactics to defeat a defensive line, rather than relying on one or two players to create a break out of nothing (which is the implication with "threat" players).

[Moono74]

I still think we focus far to much on the players, holding our breath for the day we have a backline full of threats. If we are reliant on one or two key positional players, the implication of that is that injuries will cripple the line unless the entire bench is equally good yet somehow quite happy to ride pine. These are all elite level footballers and the personnel should be far secondary to the understanding and tactics they play with - it doesn't matter who they are, if they kick all possession away and/or stand in a static line taking the ball flat-footed then playing one out hit-up ball, they'll lose. This year has demonstrated that the guys we have are big and strong enough to go toe-to-toe in defence, which is far the most physical aspect. The same line should all be good enough to execute intelligent attack and good tactics to defeat a defensive line, rather than relying on one or two players to create a break out of nothing (which is the implication with "threat" players).

IMO the results of the Force this year were delivered due to better coaching and having a team of committed players who played a high effort/ high work rate game. The problem with this is that you can't always come out every game and get up to that 100% effort level. The games where we were absolutley blown off the park this year show that. When we lost....we lost big.

Having a couple of star players (x-factor) added to a team of good players, coached well, helps to level out those performance peaks and troughs. We are on the right track as far as bringing through WA players etc but we also need 1 or 2 premium players to kick on. A Force team in 2014 with a bustling centre like Ma'a Nonu or a winger like David Smith (Toulon & former Force player) to supplement Godwin, Cummins, Hayward, Morahan, DHP would have had that extra class to challenge when the team effort was down.

[AndyS]

I don't know, that just feels to me like first year deja vu - it's a start, some promising players, but we really need some class so we'd better go buy some talent and then we'll be sorted.

[Moono74]

Any player needs to fit within the team culture of course. The Force in 2014 are in a much better position coaching wise and with the management in place to handle the recruitment of a so called star player. I think with the team culture in place now they would be managed and kept in line a lot more than the leeway given when the Force had Gits, Henjak, JOC, Mitchell etc. I don't think in 2014/2015 we will be revisiting punch ups at the Left Bank or mucking around with Quokkas on Rottnest to name a few of the previous hickups experienced.

[Alison]

I think a lot of it comes down to money. We simply don't have enough of it. And I'm not just thinking of the buying in of players, but also the keeping of players we've grown but who can earn so much more elsewhere. We're never going to solve that with the ARU in the mess it's in currently. And, we're always going to be second best compared to NSW because that's where the biggest market is.

[James]

I don't know, that just feels to me like first year deja vu - it's a start, some promising players, but we really need some class so we'd better go buy some talent and then we'll be sorted.

I hear what you are saying but I reckon it's a bit different now. We have the foundation now. Back then we were recruiting players to build a team around. Now that we have a strong team we would be recruiting players to bring the top two inches.

I think we have a lot of the fundamentals down pat and an x-factor player or two wouldn't go astray. Alfie Mafi was a guy who could bust through a lot of tackles and had a nose for the try line. We probably haven't seen his like since. Someone like that (without the off field problems) would be good for us.

[Sheikh]

I'm not sure that the Force necessarily needs any star X-factor player. The current team has a much better attitude than in previous years, and if we change the tactics to remove the aimless kicking (especially without chasing the kick) and more ruthlessness in attack then the current guys are fine (assuming adequate replacements for KBomb and HB). We did well during this season (rounds 4-8 or so) but seemed to retreat into a position where we won despite having less ball (Waratahs, Bulls, Cheetahs) and ended up with so little ball that and so much defense that we couldn't win. From then on the only teams we beat were the Lions and Reds - both of whom were awful. The team lost their way and found it difficult to get back to the tactics of those earlier rounds, but if they could they'd be a match for almost any team in the comp.

[WFDom]

Mozza has been missed a lot more than people think, he's all class

[jargan83]

We're never going to solve that with the ARU in the mess it's in currently.

Probably getting a little off topic but the ARU better get a good price for it's TV rights or the player drain will only get worse.

[Alison]

Totally agree!

[AndyS]

...The team lost their way and found it difficult to get back to the tactics of those earlier rounds, but if they could they'd be a match for almost any team in the comp.

God knows I generally have little enough time for him, but I think Growden was pretty close to the mark with...

"Their biggest asset is heart, and Foley focused on that - providing a restrictive game plan that made the most of the province's down-market skill base. Rely heavily on defence, especially in your own quarter, kick away the bulk of your possession, and attempt to cage your opponents close to their own line - preying on any mistakes or indiscretions." (Read more at http://www.espnscrum.com/australia/r...qvrJS1iBQTY.99)

The idea the team has poor attacking skills is unpalatable, but does seem to be at the heart of our gameplan. As previous, I wouldn't see this as solely a judgement of individual skills; rather (also?) that the team collectively fails to execute the basic patterns and strategies necessary to retain possession/apply pressure and so prefer to kick it away. Realistically it is still just a perpetuation of how the team played under Graham and the latter years under Mitchell, executed with more heart and success this year than the last few but still the same basic plan - kick for territory and then apply pressure.

The ball was run at times this year, but lapsed the more that was riding on the game or situation. The team often reverted to type trying to defend leads - they won them where they might have previously lost, but the malady remains and still bites on the BP scoreboard. At other times they would start defensively and end up chasing the game, and those games generally didn't end so well. Being such a long standing approach, it is hard to see how to change it other than to address the basic skills that appear to be lacking. A good start might be in the NRC, with a commitment to genuine ball-in-hand rugby regardless of outcome and a desire to attack on the scoreboard rather than a tendency to defend a lead. As the old saying goes, teams play as they train - let's hope they're looking ahead to next years campaign already and working as a group on the areas that need work.