refs advantage discretion

[hertryk]

Mr Hertryk doesn't normally comment he just watches (this time from the comfort of his armchair) but he was rope able when I arrived home about the commentating of McArdle who was , apparently willing the Bulls over the line! He thought it the worst he's ever heard!

[palitu]

I have commented many times, would have beenba horrible game to watch on TV, but being there was great!

Go you good thing!

[hertryk]

I have commented many times, would have beenba horrible game to watch on TV, but being there was great!

Go you good thing!

Totally Agree... and for once McArdle was accused wrongly..Clark was the biased commentator.. as usual.. To be above the Waratahs and the Reds must be a hanging offence..nothing less... LOL!!!

[Tonkar]

I told all my Kiwi bros to go to the Hurricanes and blues game just to make sure the reds and thretards dont win I want them woodenspooners this season might shut the east up once and for all (( Come on Rebels ))

[GIGS20]

Re advantage, I just watched the video, and looked specifically. Every advantage I heard called (both ways) went as long as they could. On our side, we usually dropped the ball within a couple passes, there were a couple where we went nowhere and were then stopped at the breakdown, judgement call over whether it was legally, but he was only calling sealing off penalties there anyway, so I'd think it was probably ok.

The only problem I had (still have) is the high tackle calls.

And he was allowing the tackled player to hold the ball for a month before calling it, but we gave as good as we got with that one

[The InnFORCEr]

I had an issue with the ref giving a team waring that next time he would go to the pockets, and when the infringement occurred he asked the TMO "so just a waring then", why bother giving the team warning if you are not going to follow it through. There are no interpretation issues or distance issues it was next time one goes and they did not.

But as others have said, good teams overcome any referring disadvantage that "may" seem evident.

We are finally a "good team" when it comes to holding onto a game now

[hertryk]

I wondered how many warnings it was going to take..

[zimeric]

Every advantage I heard called (both ways) went as long as they could. On our side, we usually dropped the ball within a couple passes, there were a couple where we went nowhere and were then stopped at the breakdown, judgement call over whether it was legally, but he was only calling sealing off penalties there anyway, so I'd think it was probably ok.

but thats just adding fuel to my question, "how long is too long?" ive always assumed that 10m forward was the unwritten rule, but it seems that this is not the case. This guy seemed determined to award the bulls with guaranteed points if the Force erred anywhere in their own half, if they didnt score a try he'd call it back to the original infringement (rather inaccurately positioned for that matter)
im sorry but a 35m advantage is HUGE particularly as it went through at least 2 phases and almost a minute of play as well.

[GIGS20]

Come off it zim, neither of the two big ones were 35m, they were both awarded about the 22 and both went between 15 and 18 meters in one run, I've also heard a guideline about three phases being applied to penalty advantage, which both of the big ones met easily.

I know it sucked to give up big yardage on advantage like that, but it was a general factor of the coaching plan for each side. Foley was playing it VERY CLEAN in our half, in order to give away as few penalties as possible. Makes sense considering the Bulls traditional game plan of bash it up and force penalties. The Bulls were the exact opposite committing all kinds of atrocities once we crossed the 22 in order not to give up tries. When we gave away a penalty it was because we were stretched and desperate, if they managed to clear the ball from that we were still (unsurprisingly) stretched and desperate. When they gave away a penalty it was business as usual and they tended to get a strong shoulder onto the next play, because it took us an age to clear the ball.

To me that is the situation explained in a nutshell and also the reason why we won the game, we kicked the penalties they didn't expect us to kick and we didn't give them any penalties to kick....simple really.

[zimeric]

you mightve been misinterpreting my 'complaint/winge' im not in the least upset by us giving away penalties, or if the ref was favoring one team or the other.

I am seeking clarity on how the refs these days are managing the advantage rule. I obviously had a very good look at both the penalties ive mentioned and the first was about a 35m advantage and about 50secs of advantage play. The second was about 20m advantage and about 15secs of advantage play... If the Law states that advantage is completely discretionary (as i believe it does) then i guess he has every right to give such big yardage before calling it back.. my worry though is that this really does need a hard and fast rule or Refs will be continually be criticised for Bias/inconsistency.

[Ecky]

Rule of thumb for advantage is to think about what the non-offending captain would want. If you know it is coming back for a penalty, then you might consider that the non-offending captain would want to see if they can get a try (assuming they are in/near the scoring zone) rather than have a shot at goal for 3 points, or to clear the ball downfield if they are hard in defence. You might, therefore, let it run for a bit to see if they can do that. Always bearing in mind that a penalty kick into touch gives the throw-in to the team that kicked it, whereas the kick in general play gives the throw to the other team.

If it will come back for a scrum, then think about what would happen with possession from a scrum: there is usually clean ball at the back of the scrum for the #8 to pick & go or the scrum half to have options. In which case, if the non-offending team gets the ball passed to the backs with possession, space and time, then call advantage over and play on.

[GIGS20]

you mightve been misinterpreting my 'complaint/winge' im not in the least upset by us giving away penalties, or if the ref was favoring one team or the other.

yeah it sounds like I did, but I still dispute the yardage you have been quoting. I saw two big advantages to the Bulls (none of note to us) both of which were called on or about the 22, neither of them went 35 meters before being called back (I guess that's obvious) now we might be talking about different penalties but I don't think so.

And I wasn't so much defending us giving away the penalties as pointing to our alignment in defense when they occurred in relation to theirs when they gave penalties away. Simply pointing out that big yards were given up reasonably since we had a bunch of players offside which was the situation that caused the penalty in the first place.

In other words I (and you wouldn't believe how much it pains me to say this) think Gardner got that part of his game pretty right on Saturday. I guess that means that I think the discretion worked pretty well in its current format (I have seen some shockers though)

[SNOB]

The thing I couldn't understand was that the penalty occurred on about the 45 mtr mark but when he blew up he awarded the penalty at least 10 mtrs closed to the posts! That doesn't and didn't make any sence to me.

[zimeric]

Thanks guys for the input. Gigs I'll agree to disagree re your interpretation of how that first penalty in particular panned out.

SNOB I think I mentioned this in my first post as something that annoyed me too

[GIGS20]

Yep, I'm not going to live or die over whether the penalty was 30m or 15m zim.