Match officials to April 20

[GIGS20]

Unless completely isolated and no immediate (<1sec) support then the Jackler must get hands on ball and survive the cleanout in order to win a penalty kick.

Sometimes the ball carrier releases,

SOMETIMES?????

I thought the tackler needed to release immediately and the tackled player needed to release immediately, when did this change?

I accept the change in law to require the tackler to survive the clean out (not necessarily happy, but I'll let it go) since when does this allow the tackled player not to release the ball? If Hodgeo has his hands on the ball long enough for the clean out to put him on his ass and then he has to release I say play on. If the tackled player is still hanging onto it (as happened in the rebels game) who has to release first?

I reckon Hodgeo had a point.

[andrewg]

OK...I'm not finished yet.

In 2012 & 2013, the NSW-based ref allocations to the Force have been as follows:

Angus Gardner - 4 from 6 games (67%) + 2 from 3 games (including Bulls) so far in 2014.

James Leckie - 1 from 4 games (25%) (2013 only)

Andrew Lees - 2 from 7 games (29%)

Ian Smith - 2 from 6 games (33%) (2012 only)

Steve Walsh - 1 from 26 games (4%)

So we get 67% of Angus Gardner's games and 4% of Steve Walsh's games (arguably the best ref in Oz).

This doesn't look like we're getting a fair allocation of the best talent to me.

And way too much of the worst talent!

[palitu]

Andrewg, the requirement to survive the cleanout has been with us for two seasons now.

Unless completely isolated and no immediate (<1sec) support then the Jackler must get hands on ball and survive the cleanout in order to win a penalty kick.

Sometimes the ball carrier releases, so he gets it, other times the support is good enough to clean the jackler off the ball, which means they have secured the possession. This is known as 'letting it breathe" to referees.

Whether or not you agree to that is irrelevant, that is the way it is refereed, and is quite consistent across all super rugby.

Whilst there is frustration at the first half penalties given by Gus, on review of the TV after, I had no problems with any of them. In all, he actually had a good game, including the correct call that he was happy with an apparent dangerous tackle by the Force that was highlighted by the TMO, and ruling correctly on the groundings of Nick's tries.

Whilst he may not be your cup of tea, there is certainly no evidence that he is biased, and most teams that have over 50% winning record with a ref would be pleased.

I know it's a supporters site, but sometimes a voice of reason is required. Happy to tell you when/if I believe a ref gets a decision wrong (including my own).

It is an interesting point, i myself said that he shouldn't have to survive the cleanout, as the they both have to let go 'immediately', obviously this is not the case.

However, on him being that flash, i say many blatant cleanouts, not going through the gate. In one case, a tah cleaned out, at 90 degrees, directly in front of gus. couldn't believe it. well, no. i could, as it had not been called all night.

[palitu]

On another note:

To all the Refs on this page:

Thanks for your inputs on numerous law and ref arguments. It is nice to hear informed discussion, with up to date information on the world of reffing. From what i have read, the replies are typically done with respect, sir. and please keep contributing.

thanks!

PS: also thanks for reffing us on the weekends!

[RugbyRef]

Lol. Thanks Palitu.

WRT the query that the ball carrier and tackler must both release immediately, this is true, but there are priorities.

For the ball carrier to get fair chance to do one of the three entitlements the ref needs to first get the tackler out of the way. This is why we are so strict on this. It also means that possible jackler victories are spoiled because the tackler decides to stay in the way.

There are also cases where players get away with staying on the wrong side, hence why they try it.

So, the reason refs are told to let it breathe is, if all honesty be told, because you could pick from 10 offenses at the breakdown, and PK it, in the old days this happened, which led to mass confusion about what happened in the breakdown, and complaints that refs weren't consistent. Because they weren't. They were all of course right, but no one wants a ref that goes into the changing room and high 5's his AR's because they PK'd a player for a law that everyone else has never heard of.

After all, even refereeing at certain levels is just a game, and those who play the game the best, gain the rewards (which is better games).

[RugbyRef]

If Hodgeo has his hands on the ball long enough for the clean out to put him on his ass and then he has to release I say play on. If the tackled player is still hanging onto it (as happened in the rebels game) who has to release first?

I reckon Hodgeo had a point.

On this, if the Jackler gets the ball, is cleaned out, but takes the ball with them, that's play on. Well done on being strong enough to keep the ball. Look for the original tackler though. Are they still there impeding the attacking team from securing the ball?

[jargan83]

So were blaming the Refs before the game?

That's new....

[The InnFORCEr]

Last week when Walshy was our AR, I was sure I had three beers lined up on the wall, but I can only see one in the pics, so I'm blaming Walshy for me having to go to the bar so often

[jono]

Last week when Walshy was our AR, I was sure I had three beers lined up on the wall, but I can only see one in the pics, so I'm blaming Walshy for me having to go to the bar so often

Did you ask him which rule he got tattooed on his forearm?

[GIGS20]

On this, if the Jackler gets the ball, is cleaned out, but takes the ball with them, that's play on. Well done on being strong enough to keep the ball. Look for the original tackler though. Are they still there impeding the attacking team from securing the ball?

Hodgeo WAS the original tackler, He got to his feet, went for the ball, got cleaned out at which point the tackled player (still holding the ball) ripped it out of his grasp and played it backwards, Hodgeo was penalised. Play on I could cope with (probably be a bit pissed about it, but prepared to let it go) but being penalised for "not surviving the cleanout" IMHO was a load of crap, designed to cover up the fact that Gardner had (yet again) made a mistake based upon his assumption that the Force only get anywhere through illegal tactics.

I understand the intent behind "letting it breathe" is to stop interrupting the game with inconsequential penalties, should be applied in much the same way as advantage, let it go, see if the contest is fair allow justice to work itself out....i get that, How does it excuse the tackled player not releasing the ball and the attacking team benefiting as a result? That's not 'letting it breathe' that's blatantly supporting the attacking team's interests over the defending team's interests.

Again, not a problem as long as it's reciprocated, it wasn't, check the footage.

[GIGS20]

Last week when Walshy was our AR, I was sure I had three beers lined up on the wall, but I can only see one in the pics, so I'm blaming Walshy for me having to go to the bar so often

Can't have been him, we lost

[RugbyRef]

OK...I'm not finished yet.

In 2012 & 2013, the NSW-based ref allocations to the Force have been as follows:

Angus Gardner - 4 from 6 games (67%) + 2 from 3 games (including Bulls) so far in 2014.

James Leckie - 1 from 4 games (25%) (2013 only)

Andrew Lees - 2 from 7 games (29%)

Ian Smith - 2 from 6 games (33%) (2012 only)

Steve Walsh - 1 from 26 games (4%)

So we get 67% of Angus Gardner's games and 4% of Steve Walsh's games (arguably the best ref in Oz).

This doesn't look like we're getting a fair allocation of the best talent to me.

And way too much of the worst talent!

Didn't we get Rohann Hoffman too? Or was that just a trial.

[SNOB]

Tell him can't work in WA with out a visa he seems to be spending to much time over here! If we have to have an Aussie ref lets have a WA one. RR your nominated! Need a second!

[Elf1]

Last week when Walshy was our AR, I was sure I had three beers lined up on the wall, but I can only see one in the pics, so I'm blaming Walshy for me having to go to the bar so often

Oh sorry TIF thought they were my lemonades

[andrewg]

Didn't we get Rohann Hoffman too? Or was that just a trial.

Didn't have time to research the Qld based refs.

The NSW based refs were easy from the NSW Ref Assoc annual report.