Forceful Kiwi ready to switch allegiances

[brokendown gunfighter]

All of those players were world class and would have walked into the All Black and Springbok squads of their day. I also can't see how Gregan, Egerton, Kefu, and Paul fit into this category, they were all Australian-raised and bred in the Australian rugby system. It's also very different to name a Zambian, Papuan and a Tongan, considering that making the national team for those countries would have been significantly easier than playing for Australia. Playing for Australia gave them the chance to compete for a world championship, unlike the countries of their birth; this is not the case for New Zealanders or South Africans.

so whats your cut off for being Australian"raised"?

aged 1,2 3-10 15?

[chibi]

so whats your cut off for being Australian"raised"?

aged 1,2 3-10 15?

Just come through the Australian system, be an Australian rugby player.

[brokendown gunfighter]

Ok,let me rephrase this:At what age does the Australian system kick in for a player?

[WFDom]

I think we have to be thankfull that a pro in this day & age has set a goal for himself that doesn't involve going to Europe or Japan for the cash!

[Kept One]

Australia is the lucky country and Jayden Hayward sees that with some luck there is an opportunity to seize. Go for it, it can only be good for the Force and the Wallabies.

[chibi]

Prejudiced Xenophobe

Ha ha I was hoping some one would pick me up on that!

would you begrudge the players who are never going to get a shot at international rugby in those positions the chance to take the easier route? Surely also, that would mean that players who might be eligible for Australia shouldn't play for a lower tier nation (Adam Byrne for example) I think, as long as they satisfy the eligibility criteria and are good enough, they deserve a shot!

No certainly not. But Australia, as a nation who has won two world cups before anyone else, should NEVER think of itself as the easier route. If we are failing in certain positions, then we should be looking at what is wrong with our development structures. Lower tier nations deserve every bit of help they can! But traditional the "Big 5" of world rugby should not be treating themselves as lower tier nations. As a matter of fact, lower tier nations should be allowed to benefit from loosening eligibilty laws, so that players who have played tests for the top-tier nations can come back through heritage or birth. Players like Digby Ioane should be able to play for Samoa. Percy Montgomery should have been able to go back and play for Zim.

Personally I'm more happy for the player to make up his own mind now than I was (not) back then. Pro era, pro outlook.

I dunno Shas, this makes for a slippery slide. You can end up with a lot of players playing for countries they would never have bothered to play for before, simply because they have cashed-up clubs in their domestic leagues. It means Italy or England benefit from the club contracts and residency, but the Islanders, Canada or Argentina don't. I don't think that big-money contracts in club rugby should benefit the national teams at all; I think it's become a negative side-effect of the professional era.

Ok,let me rephrase this:At what age does the Australian system kick in for a player?

Age has nothing to do with it, nor where you were actually raised.

If you come to Australia/Italy/Scotland from Afghanistan/Poland/Peru at 22 years old and discover the game and learn it there, then it certainly doesn't make you an Afghan/Polish/Peruvian-bred rugby player. You might have been Afghan/Polish/Peruvian-raised, but you're still a product of the Australian/Italian/Scottish rugby system, in essence an Australian/Italian/Scottish rugby player. If you've learned all your rugby in New Zealand and come through their club system up to provincial level; or come up through the South African system, played Currie Cup and captained the Junior Springboks to a world championship; and then moved to Australia/Italy/Scotland purely because you were offered a club rugby contract, and you never would have moved there for any other reason, then it's a different story. You certainly wouldn't be considered a product of the Australian/Italian/Scottish rugby system and you'd be hard-pressed to be considered an Australian/Italian/Scottish rugby player, as unfortunate as that sounds.

[Nic]

If he's got the goods, and he wants to be more than a resident, then I say 'hats off to him'.
I've been impressed with his rugby this season and he also seems like a hell of a nice bloke.
Nothing wrong with adding some competiveness to Wallabies selection.

[WFDom]

Isn't his missus from WA too?

[Kept One]

Isn't his missus from WA too?

I think she is from Brazil, however they met in Perth when he was either playing for the Hurricanes or Highlanders.

[brokendown gunfighter]

I think I'll get myself another beer

[chibi]

Isn't his missus from WA too?

She is indeed.

[GIGS20]

Ok,let me rephrase this:At what age does the Australian system kick in for a player?

It was under 6s last time I checked Gunny

[GIGS20]

Ha ha I was hoping some one would pick me up on that!

Only too happy to oblige.

If we are failing in certain positions, then we should be looking at what is wrong with our development structures.

I don't disagree with that in the slightest Chibi, but that is a long-term issue requiring a long-term solution, I see no problem with the short-term fix being employed (sometimes, putting the short term fix in produces the competition which motivates some kids to be better than that bloody foreigner. If we're talking about growing the World game, Id be happier with Hayward than Speight (who is Fijiian I believe) since New Zealand likely never need him but Fiji could really do with a Henry Speight on their national team. That one will never happen, because half of the AllBlacks' best players would never have pulled on a black jersey!

If you come to Australia/Italy/Scotland from Afghanistan/Poland/Peru at 22 years old and discover the game and learn it there, then it certainly doesn't make you an Afghan/Polish/Peruvian-bred rugby player. You might have been Afghan/Polish/Peruvian-raised, but you're still a product of the Australian/Italian/Scottish rugby system, in essence an Australian/Italian/Scottish rugby player. If you've learned all your rugby in New Zealand and come through their club system up to provincial level; or come up through the South African system, played Currie Cup and captained the Junior Springboks to a world championship; and then moved to Australia/Italy/Scotland purely because you were offered a club rugby contract, and you never would have moved there for any other reason, then it's a different story. You certainly wouldn't be considered a product of the Australian/Italian/Scottish rugby system and you'd be hard-pressed to be considered an Australian/Italian/Scottish rugby player, as unfortunate as that sounds.

That would be a bloody nightmare to administer/police. Remember, somebody needs to write a policy/rule which covers all the situations and caters for the fact that some smartass lawyer is going to try to weasel his way around it in order to get a better deal for his team. Ask Fulvio how easy that rule will be to write......

I appreciate your sentiment mate, but in the real world, you have to give the Jayden Haywards of this world the opportunity to make the most of their skills and the Wallabies teams of this world the encouragement to allow them to do so I respectfully disagree with you

[chibi]

Nah, I understand what you mean. I think you know from a lot of my posts that I am still stuck in the past and have a longing for the altruism of the (sh)amateur days. After all, I'm still seething that they threw the Pacific Islands out of Super 10 when they expanded to 12! So that certainly shows you what time-period my head is at!

I agree with you on the Henry Speight issue and personally I quite like Jayden Hayward; and having a WA wife certainly gives him more reason to be here in Perth, than just rugby.

[palitu]

What I like is that he came here to play rugby, not to play for the wallabies.