Front row reinvented,all the skills

[frontrow]

Last night once again highlighted this problem, with support players so slow to join the clearout, wheras SA nailed it, and almost nailed us

[Burgs]

Pretty much agree with all of the above fellas.
I would say that I have been very impressed with Holmes.
While all the attention has been on Tighthead (and especially "Rodzilla") Holmsey has gone about his trade quietly and is starting to claim a couple of scalps.
He created a couple of scrum wins against the feed last night and was also very useful in the very rare third and fourth phase breakdowns.
Blake is also a far better proposition than the insipid Baxter.
I feel that post France our front row will be:
1 Holmes
2 Polota-Nau (assuming an improvement in his throw ins)
3 Blake
16 Shepherdson
17 Paul/McIsaac (depending on availability but to offer some experience)
With a couple of years experience as a unit this will be a world class front row that will be the equal of the Grand Slam version.

[.X.]

Last night once again highlighted this problem, with support players so slow to join the clearout, wheras SA nailed it, and almost nailed us

My thoughts exactly FrontRow - tho I did cheer loudly when we turned their scrum, got the feed and got clean ball from the resulting scrum - we are getting better.

[frontrow]

That was a highlight for me as well mate, bloody brilliant, and good sign for RWC next year. Finally we look like having a forward pack that won`t be pushed around

[JediKnight]

However.....before we all get too excited.....when the Aussies won their tighthead scrum at least one of the SA locks lost their footing so a little fortunate there.

An improved showing though....now if we can only stop the backs kicking the ball!!!!!!!!

[.X.]

With a couple of years experience as a unit this will be a world class front row that will be the equal of the Grand Slam version.

Burgs I dont know if a comparrison can be made between a front row/tight 5 from one era and a likely combination now.

I believe - and please correct me if I am wrong that the Wallabies scrum from the grandslam of the 80's was all about technique. No scrum. from any nation was interested in collapsing a scrum like it happens now - nor would a front row ever not bind like what happens now - the scrums from the 80's were incredibly low to the ground and were all about pure strength and power. Todays scrums are just a means to and end. You never saw the number of scrum resets like you do now, and that is to the detriment of our game.

[JediKnight]

But the props didn't run about the field as much in the old days - they just ambled from scrum to scrum.

[The Lone Hydrangea]

No one has mentioned the lineout shambles? It went pear shaped bigtime!
Thank god that Botha wasnt playing. It could have been uglier.

[frontrow]

Agreed TLH, line outs were shocking, both in defence and attack. We just couldn`t seem to put it together.
Exile, I have to agree that you cannot compare the 80`s scrum to now as a lot has evolved since them as our wise jedi has pointed out, but to me the scrum is not a means to an end, but still a point were games can be, and are, won and lost. A poor scrum usually means poor scrummaging as well, which is still an area that Australia are desperatly lacking in commitment, apart from regular superstars Waugh and Smith....
No prop likes scrums collapsing, as it is seriously scary, and possibly the most dangerous position in any sport. I feel it is still a contest of strength, although good technique can, and does, overpower a stronger opposition. But to have the two would provide a powerhouse unmatched recently( the grand slam combo had this), apart from the Kiwis who seem to have found this combination.
When this occurs, then all other aspects of scrummaging, cleanouts, support play,etc, generally fall into place....

[The Lone Hydrangea]

Your very lucid today Frontrow.

[JediKnight]

And he's making a lot of sense too!!!

[Burgs]

Burgs I dont know if a comparrison can be made between a front row/tight 5 from one era and a likely combination now.

I believe - and please correct me if I am wrong that the Wallabies scrum from the grandslam of the 80's was all about technique. No scrum. from any nation was interested in collapsing a scrum like it happens now - nor would a front row ever not bind like what happens now - the scrums from the 80's were incredibly low to the ground and were all about pure strength and power. Todays scrums are just a means to and end. You never saw the number of scrum resets like you do now, and that is to the detriment of our game.

I am referring more to how they were respected rather than comparing them against each other Exile. It is certainly a dangerous route to tread comparing eras as, if nothing else, these fellas are professionals and I would think would monster the GS pack. However, there is many similarities between the '82-'83 period when Andy McIntyre, Tommy Lawton and Topo Rodriguez came of age prior to the Grand Slam Tour and the current scenario with Holmes, McIsaac/Paul/Polota-Nau and Blake.
More the point I was trying to make was that the GS pack (and especially Frontrow) was respected, if not feared, by those who came up against it with the ultimate crowning glory being the push over try at Cardiff Arms.
If this current group is given time, trust and tuition, I believe that they can be as dominant amongst their peers as the GS group was in their day and perhaps the current All Blacks front row is in some quarters today.
Hope that clears it up a bit?

[frontrow]

The Grand slam front row are my favourites, they are the ones who i aspired to emulate...probably not too well however..and that pushover try in Cardiff is etched eternally into my memories, as an example of what can be achieved by a great scrum. But, i don`t know if this pack would monster the GS pack because they were amatuers. I reckon that the GS boys would stick it to em as they had plenty of ticker and wouldn`t give an inch...
But, I understand your point burgs, and can see that as our scrum continues to improve then we will begin to see that respect come back from the opposition. We never want to become the laughing stock of international rugby again, as we were last year under eddddie jones.
And, TLH, must have been the emourmous quantity of ale i drank last night waiting for the ten thirty kick off, which left me with a nasty hangover at five am this morning.....I`m fully recovered now thank god

[.X.]

Hope that clears it up a bit?

Thank you Burgs

- I would love to see the GS Scrum in their prime go up againts the Pack we have now - the techniques would be a treat to watch. How ever as it was brought up last night by Phil Kearns and Greg Martin of the Foxsports commentary team - the starting front row had about a dozen tests between them. Lets give them some time, and a chance to develop in to a world class unit.

[GIGS20]

Last night once again highlighted this problem, with support players so slow to join the clearout, wheras SA nailed it, and almost nailed us

I've noticed since knuckles took the reins though that, even with opportunity it's rare that more than two or three wallabies commit to the breakdown anyway. I don't know whether it's a tactic or just coincidence, but more often than not, the breakdown contest is being won simply by the team that puts more forwards into it and pressures it more agggresively.

Surely it's more complex than that, maybe the lack of numbers at the breakdown is required to increse the nubers in the defensive line. Possibly Connoly is relying upon our superior pack to hold the ruck together whilst the back rowers do a bit of their own labradoring in order to SMASH Percy Montgomery into a modern haircut!