Dom Shipperley and other Reds.

[PerthChicka]

A quote's a quote.

If it's been faithfully reproduced, yes. But not if it's been doctored by unscrupulous journos, perish the thought!!

[sittingbison]

Sorry TOCC we'll have to agree to disagree, I'll try not to take offence at your personal outrageous attack on me, no worries mate.

BTW would you take $350k instead of $600k each year for three years? (reported figures) because you like the guy next to you at work? Perhaps a dose of reality instead of looking through red coloured spectacles?
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[TOCC]

Sorry TOCC we'll have to agree to disagree, I'll try not to take offence at your personal outrageous attack on me, no worries mate.

BTW would you take $350k instead of $600k each year for three years? (reported figures) because you like the guy next to you at work? Perhaps a dose of reality instead of looking through red coloured spectacles?
Posted via Mobile Device

There are no "personal outrageous attacks" coming from me sittingbison, i stand by my comment that your suggestion the Reds are indulging in salary cap rorting is nothing other then speculation and reflective of a person who has a chip on their shoulder. If you find that a "personal outrageous attacks" then i suggest you learn to reevaluate your own comments in the future.

[normie]

If it's been faithfully reproduced, yes. But not if it's been doctored by unscrupulous journos, perish the thought!!

Would they do that?

[PerthChicka]

Would they do that?

Never in a million!!

[valzc]

The point TOCC is I dont believe for one second any player will willingly give up $Xk just to play for his "beloved" jersey or team mates. Not going to happen. That mentality is harking back to the good old days of amateurism and has no place in the modern professional world. They are out to get as much as they can as quick as they can, and good on them. All the other blather is a mechanism to pressure/chisel as much out of their existing or future team as they can.

A guy like Taps or even Harris would have been offered much more than they were getting at the Reds by Force and Rabble, the only scenario that fits is getting extra 3rd party payments or salary cap breaches (or both).

A guy like Judas saying he went to Rabble for his brand and improving his rugby (similar arguments to love of the jersey by not mentioning the money) was complete crap. They threw the kitchen sink at him, and the Force cancelled negotiations (after he verbally agreed to remain) when he suddenly introduced the infamous KPIs (so much for loving your team mates).

There is not the slightest hope in hell that Genia is on any less TOTAL money at the Reds as he was offered by the Force. He would have been offered more to go overseas, but at this point I think wobbly selection is still on his agenda. The moment its not he will be off like a shot, too roo beloved Reds. Same with Cooper, and that might be sooner than later if Deans doesn't select him.

I have to say TOCC that I would agree with this. May not necessarily deliberate rorting of the salary cap that's going on but it does all seem a bit sus in hindsight how quickly Genia changed his mind. There were obviously other factors that swayed his decision whether he was using the Force as a lever in the negotiations to get more from the Reds or what - who knows? Seriously I can't buy into the mate's love scenario (cynical as I may be). Reality these days would suggest some extra $$$$ were 'discovered' somehow. And I feel this is also factoring into the deals with the re-signings of the other players. Sure they want to stay for the culture of the club which is great, but that can't be all there is to it. It all seems to be working out just honky dory for them.
and personally I smell a rat.

[sittingbison]

Off topic:
Well you see TOCC, there's your problem. You can't see how your comments directed at me personally for expressing a valid opinion on an opinion forum could be construed as a personal attack, and not once but twice after I expressed my concerns.

To help you understand a little better, an example might be a little bit like me saying you are a gullible sycophant for childishly believing PR spin designed to impress juveniles. But I haven't said that, in fact I've not said anything about you or any individual expressing their opinion.

Back on topic (which is about "Dom Shipperley and other Reds" on a Force supporters opinion forum)
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[TOCC]

Off topic:
Well you see TOCC, there's your problem. You can't see how your comments directed at me personally for expressing a valid opinion on an opinion forum could be construed as a personal attack, and not once but twice after I expressed my concerns.

To help you understand a little better, an example might be a little bit like me saying you are a gullible sycophant for childishly believing PR spin designed to impress juveniles. But I haven't said that, in fact I've not said anything about you or any individual expressing their opinion.

Back on topic (which is about "Dom Shipperley and other Reds" on a Force supporters opinion forum)
Posted via Mobile Device

Lets just clarify what you have is no more then a opinion based on speculation and maturity rather then fact, figures and a level of professionalism. Accusing an organisation of potentially illegal activities in the course of duty as you have done has no grounds for credibility even if it is 'your opinion'.

Its evident a level of frustration from the performance and events at the Force this year have lead to you venting at another organisation who's current fortunes are the polar opposite of your own.

I have said nothing antagonising towards you rather then say your current attitude is reflective of someone who may have a chip on your shoulder, id love for you to prove me wrong and make this a current discourse one of intellect and credible information rather then speculative accusations.

[sittingbison]

Sorry TOCC you are full of it, and still have not the slightest clue, I shall not continue your ridiculous position.

What I shall do is offer my opinion whenever and about whatever I want,

That is all

Back on topic. I agree valzc, the contracts and player retention at Reds smells like a week old rotting fish. As I have pointed out, professional players are after money and will get their worth. A salary cap has only one intention, to discourage the possibility of having internationals in every position and every back up position. Even the Rabble can't do that with their dispensations. The mighty Tahs can't mmanage it, the Brumbies have a team of kids, the Force have no names yet they are all struggling with the cap. Yet somehow the Reds have done it. A starter and back up in every backs position a wobbly or U20. Anyone believing they are altruistic needs their heads Red
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[GIGS20]

That opinion seems to have some "grounds for credibility" there Bison......I'd even suggest it has more grounds for credibility than the opinion that every headliner in the reds organisation will play for half the wage they can earn in other franchises......some will take a significant pay cut and give up a guaranteed starting position so they can be near their friends and keep the misses happy.

I for one know damn well that my mrs would be happy to live in Antarctica if it meant I'd earn twice as much!

[sittingbison]

Gigs my missus (if I had one) would pay half my wages for me to live in Antartica lol
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[TOCC]

Well the Reds still have the youngest team on paper, even younger then the Baby Brumbies..

Considering there are still a significant number of players not signed for 2013 i think jumping to conclusions of salary cap rorting is getting ahead of yourselves.

Reds had the lowest Aus Super Rugby wage bill in the competition in 2010 and even lower again 2011 prior to the Salary Cap even been introduced, its not always purely about $$... Its due reward for developing the juniors and going out on a limb with players like Radike Samo and Beau Robinson.

[jono]

Gigs my missus (if I had one) would pay half my wages for me to live in Antartica lol
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If we all chip in will you move there?

[PerthChicka]

I don't do chipping. I do turn out a nice raspberry tart though

[Happy]

i like a good tart