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  1. #1
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    Immortal GIGS20's Avatar
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    Ok, I've got a couple of questions.

    They're all out for six months, but McCabe will only miss a month for the Brumbies, Cooper will miss two months for the Reds and Vickerman will miss three months for the Tahs, why does the season start at all different times?

    Second, in the discussion about O'Connor playing 12 (the first good thing I've heard from an Ella in about five years) it's suggested there's a possibility that Deans will look for an inside centre in the mould of McCabe and continue the "direct style of play the tried at the World Cup" can I ask why? That tactic was completely ineffective, causing us to suffer our first defeat ever in World Cups against Ireland, lose a semi final against the AllBlacks and beat Wales, but hardly convincingly......is Deans a slow learner? Are the rumors about him being a kiwi plant true? I just can't fathom why he'd even contemplate that!

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    C'mon the

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    Immortal Contributor jono's Avatar
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    It would appear, he's a muppet

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    Tour out for Elsom, and start of Super Rugby season in doubt
    BY: BRET HARRIS From: The Australian October 28, 2011 12:00AM
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    WALLABIES blindside flanker Rocky Elsom may miss the start of next year's Super Rugby season with the NSW Waratahs because of the hamstring injury that seems almost certain to rule him out of the Test against Wales in Cardiff in December.

    Elsom is being medically assessed for hamstring and shoulder injuries, and at this stage is unlikely to go on the two-match tour with the Wallabies.

    And if he requires surgery, it could force him to miss the beginning of Super Rugby in February.

    "It's highly unlikely," Elsom said of his chances of touring.

    "If I get this cleaned up, I won't be able to tour.

    "You always want to play Tests, but you can't win everything."

    The Wallabies will play the Barbarians at Twickenham on November 26 and Wales in Cardiff on December 3, which will mark the beginning of their journey to the 2015 World Cup in England.

    While the Wallabies were eliminated by the All Blacks in the World Cup semi-final, Elsom predicted a bright future for the team.


    "We aimed to win the World Cup and we didn't, which was obviously disappointing," he said.

    "But the prospects for this team are looking good.

    "There are a lot of long-term positive elements to this team."

    Meanwhile, three other injured Wallabies -- loosehead prop Benn Robinson, winger Drew Mitchell and number eight Wycliff Palu -- have been ruled out of contention for the tour.

    Robinson has not recovered from the knee injury that forced him to miss the World Cup in New Zealand, while Mitchell and Palu sustained tournament-ending hamstring injuries.

    Fullback Kurtley Beale (hamstring) remains highly unlikely to make the tour.

    Prop Sekope Kepu, who sustained an eye injury in the Wallabies' 20-6 loss to the All Blacks in Auckland, is also doubtful.

    But hooker Tatafu Polota-Nau, who came off during the Wallabies' 21-18 win against Wales in the bronze medal game, has been given clearance to tour.

    Secondrower Dan Vickerman (shoulder) and insidecentre Pat McCabe (shoulder) have both already been ruled out for up to six months.

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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIGS20 View Post
    there's a possibility that Deans will look for an inside centre in the mould of McCabe...
    Well, the good thing about that "in the mould of McCabe" implies "not McCabe". Personally, I have a great deal of sympathy for the position. We have played two playmakers for quite some time, to very mixed results and Barnes on the cusp of a career ending injury.

    They were blind enough to it at the time, but what they are looking for is a Staniforth - someone direct enough to give the backline some cover for lateral 9/10 movement, but also able to kick and pass and not just a tackle bag. Nonu doesn't kick much, but he does the rest and look how that works for the Kiwis.

    O'Connor is impressive for his size, but size does tell. He is a Horan-esque player, but isn't any bigger. The guys they respectively play/ed against are. My personal opinion is that he should be looking at 10 in partnership with Beale at 12, while Cooper can continue to develop with Faingaa and Barnes can work with Horne. If Deans is interested in a horses-for-courses approach (which is what he claimed was behind his treatment of Sharpe), then with the players already in the set-up we suddenly have depth in partnerships and styles as well as individuals.

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    Immortal GIGS20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyS View Post
    Well, the good thing about that "in the mould of McCabe" implies "not McCabe". Personally, I have a great deal of sympathy for the position. We have played two playmakers for quite some time, to very mixed results and Barnes on the cusp of a career ending injury.

    They were blind enough to it at the time, but what they are looking for is a Staniforth - someone direct enough to give the backline some cover for lateral 9/10 movement, but also able to kick and pass and not just a tackle bag. Nonu doesn't kick much, but he does the rest and look how that works for the Kiwis.

    O'Connor is impressive for his size, but size does tell. He is a Horan-esque player, but isn't any bigger. The guys they respectively play/ed against are. My personal opinion is that he should be looking at 10 in partnership with Beale at 12, while Cooper can continue to develop with Faingaa and Barnes can work with Horne. If Deans is interested in a horses-for-courses approach (which is what he claimed was behind his treatment of Sharpe), then with the players already in the set-up we suddenly have depth in partnerships and styles as well as individuals.
    Only problem with that is, I've seen O'Connor play 10, he has the same problem as Gits (I guess that makes it unsurprising that he tried to screw the force out of everything they own then) he's not a 10, he's a good 12. You're right about the size equation, that means he wants a smart 10 inside him, who can make sure he's protected by not throwing stupid passes. Rabbit's never been scared of the defensive work, and punches above his weight quite well in that. I'd put him outside Berrick and tell him that when he gets the ball, his job is to step through the line and find clear air on the other side of it. Tell Berrick the same thing and make sure O'Connor is missed out unless it's on.

    Cooper needs Faingaa at 12 they both need AAC at 13

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    Agreed about the tendency to crab sideways, but I suppose the question is whether they did that looking for an option. Giteau did it at Wallaby level too, so perhaps not him. But I always got the feeling that JO'C was trying to do it all himself. Maybe he'd get over that with Beale outside (and even if he didn't, it would be the Rebels problem to find that out ).

    But it wasn't him injuring himself in attack I was worried about, it was specifically his punching above his weight in defense. Like Barnes, he'd get hurt by being run into rather than running into others. It is a simple numbers game based on frequency and size of the runners, and it would be a shame to see his career go that way. We already shield one 10 because he is suspect, another seems to need protecting because he has set up a long term problem, don't really want another one on the Gimp List.

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    Immortal GIGS20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyS View Post
    Agreed about the tendency to crab sideways, but I suppose the question is whether they did that looking for an option. Giteau did it at Wallaby level too, so perhaps not him. But I always got the feeling that JO'C was trying to do it all himself. Maybe he'd get over that with Beale outside (and even if he didn't, it would be the Rebels problem to find that out ).

    But it wasn't him injuring himself in attack I was worried about, it was specifically his punching above his weight in defense. Like Barnes, he'd get hurt by being run into rather than running into others. It is a simple numbers game based on frequency and size of the runners, and it would be a shame to see his career go that way. We already shield one 10 because he is suspect, another seems to need protecting because he has set up a long term problem, don't really want another one on the Gimp List.
    I though Giteau crabbed sideways because he was trying to do it all himself, and I reckon there's evidence of this in O'Connor even at wallaby level. So I'd say no......as for punching above his weight in defense we both know that's easy enough as long as your technique's right, and his seems to be. Yes he'll be tested by bigger guys, as long as he doesn't get sucked into playing their game (ie direct physical confrontation) and keeps it about his game (you can't run without knees) he'll have a long career. I'd say the biggest risk is him taking too many hospital balls from a panicky 10 who just wants to deliver the ball so he doesn't get hit.

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    Your saying Barnes' technique is far more flawed than O'Connor's? As I say, it is a numbers game. Tackle enough 7s, 8s and big 12s, sooner or later someone will swerve or step and his head will get caught on the wrong side. Law of averages, especially if he is doing it week in, week out.

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    The RWC will be about whoever can keep the best group of their "best" team on the park in years to come
    Even the allblicks had to rely on their 4th string fly half to steer the ship into port
    2011 marked the rise of the minnows. There are no easy games anymore. Even the USA caused physical carnage to our national team.
    With super 15, Tri nations and RWC in 2015, I'd better keep my boots polished for the final

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    If only we had another Scottie Staniforth.

    Tahs are going to be buggered again this year. Too many injury concerns.

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    Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast.

  12. #12
    Immortal Contributor jono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    If only we had another Scottie Staniforth.

    Tahs are going to be buggered again this year. Too many injury concerns.
    Agreed. Dam his neck!
    Just fuse the vertebrae Scott! She'll be right
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