Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: All Blacks shouldn't make a song and dance about Haka

  1. #1
    Immortal Contributor
    Moderator
    travelling_gerry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia, Australia
    Posts
    18,483
    vCash
    5088000

    All Blacks shouldn't make a song and dance about Haka

    All Blacks shouldn't make a song and dance about Haka








    Richie McCaw leads the All Blacks as they perform the Haka before the Bledisloe Cup match between New Zealand and Australia at Hong Kong Stadium. Source: Getty Images



    IT WAS once a theatrical affair, loved by children and armchair fans, but the ridiculous bout of pre-game posturing has no place in rugby today.

    But the Haka has changed, profoundly. The All Blacks and their followers have made it a self-important bore and instrument of the worst kind of sporting arrogance. How many Maoris believe that their tradition has been hijacked? And symbolically, it sometimes stops just short of an exhortation to murder. In one of its versions, it ends with the players making graphic throat-cutting gestures.
    Opposition is growing. One recent critic of the Haka refers to a "politically correct lunacy" and a "cynical stage-managed circus". Another calls the Haka "a bad joke" and another said the team performing it are like "preening ninnies".
    And all this came before a crass intervention by the International Rugby Board. During the recent women's Rugby World Cup, the Australian team advanced on the Haka by a few half-hearted steps. After the match the IRB fined them $2,000.


    Why? Apparently, there are IRB protocols (never publicly announced) which say the side facing the Haka must stand like lemons a minimum of 10 metres away and not advance.
    It does not actually state that they should lie down and allow the Blacks to walk all over them, but that is the spirit of the measure. After the fining incident, we heard from Mike Miller, chief executive of the IRB.
    "It is a traditional part of the game," he said. "If people want to develop something - not a response, not a war dance, but a traditional or cultural way of engendering that team spirit for a match, great. They should be able to and we should create the space to do it. It would be a shame if people said, 'Let's do away with it', or felt the need to do some response that took away from the dignity and power of it."
    Whatever Miller is on about and whatever toadying we must expect towards New Zealand as their World Cup approaches, there were two aspects of the whole sorry mess that he got completely wrong.
    First, the Haka in most forms is a call to war. If Miller doesn't want the reaction, then he must ban the challenge. Secondly there has been no dignity whatsoever surrounding the performance of the Haka for many years.
    Perhaps the All Blacks were at their most ludicrous at the Millennium stadium in 2006. By then, everybody realised the Haka was being performed not just for culture, but as an attempt to establish the kind of early psychological blow for which coaches are desperate.
    Courageously the Welsh Rugby Union stood their ground. They did not ban the Haka, just announced it would precede the Welsh national anthem - in 99 per cent of Tests the home anthem is the final ceremonial act before kick-off.
    New Zealand sulked to high heaven. They refused to do the Haka on the field. Instead, they let an unofficial crew come into their dressing room and, eventually, put out a film of them performing the Haka in the dressing room.
    Afterwards, they bleated at this gross act of national insult - no mention of any insult to Wales and to their hosts' anthem. And although the Kiwis tried to dictate the whole Haka process with a barrage of unwritten rules, the rules are always conveniently changing.
    For example, one day they are happy when teams advance on them. Another day, they rage that this is disrespectful. In 1989 in Dublin, the Irish linked arms and advanced almost into the middle of the Haka. But Mike Brewer, the New Zealand forward, was one of several players who admitted that all that Ireland had done was accept the challenge.
    But when England menaced the Haka before the Test at Old Trafford in 1997, when England's Richard Cockerill and New Zealand's Norm Hewitt all but came to blows, the affronted New Zealand camp complained bitterly.
    In 2008, two years after the WRU had had the temerity to ask that their own anthem in their own stadium should take priority, the Welsh team took another approach. After the Haka they stood motionless and stared back. Again, New Zealanders complained - clearly prepared to dish out the call out to sporting war but not prepared to accept it when the call was taken up.
    In 2005 the Lions consulted the ubiquitous, even capricious, Maori elders. They were told it would be appropriate for skipper Brian O'Driscoll to accept the challenge by throwing some grass into the air. And what happened? A few minutes after his gesture, O'Driscoll was smashed in an illegal double tackle and was out of the tour.
    The IRB is supposed to represent the interests of all of rugby. To fine a group of Australian girls for wandering towards a Haka when it's used simply to bully is disgraceful. As Phil Kearns, the great Australian hooker, said: "The IRB should butt out."
    There are a whole raft of Hakas. The elders have a fund of them. Sometimes, we are even treated to teasing media releases, as if we are all agog as to which version the All Blacks will actually use before the game.
    When will New Zealand realise that nobody cares anymore? And that it is their fault for betraying their own ideal of the game.
    The Sunday Times


    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1225945763528

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  2. #2
    Veteran beige's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    4,515
    vCash
    5000000
    Stephen Jones has wanted the haka banned for years now so I wouldn't take the article too seriously.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  3. #3
    (formerly known as Coach) Your Humble Servant Darren's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia, Australia
    Posts
    14,228
    vCash
    266778
    That's the first time I've heard someone say "It is a traditional part of the game".

    The problem is traditions and laws or regulations shouldn't really cross over, otherwise it is no longer a tradition - it's a regulation....

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Dear Lord, if you give us back Johnny Cash, we'll give you Justin Bieber.

  4. #4
    Legend Contributor slomo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    yanchep...
    Posts
    5,368
    vCash
    218000
    Yawn!......the haka isn't the motivating tool it used to be for the all blacks, it's a waste of time unless the other team can at least accept the challenge by walking right up to them and getting in their faces, as France and Ireland have done in the past, and not forgetting wales a few years ago when they just stood there after the haka was finished, and the ref eventually intervened just to get the game started......Stephen jones I'm with you on this one.......
    Posted via Mobile Device

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  5. #5
    Veteran beige's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    4,515
    vCash
    5000000
    As I mentioned on another thread the haka is one of the few things that gets rugby any publicity outside of its traditional strongholds and fanbase. If we want to get rid of it because it gets up some people's noses then we would be doing the game a disservice.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  6. #6
    Immortal Contributor
    Moderator
    Burgs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Country WA
    Posts
    22,802
    vCash
    390000
    The haka is fantastic, it gives me an opportunity to sneak in a piddle before the match.
    NZ lost all credability in their Millenium Stadium dressing room.
    I used to enjoy it, now, unless it is against another PI who are responding, I really can't be bothered.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    "Bloody oath we did!"

    Nathan Sharpe, Legend.

  7. #7
    Veteran zimeric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mandurah
    Posts
    3,128
    vCash
    5000000
    the thing is the haka doesnt get up peoples noses its the fact that noone is allowed to respond to it that gets up peoples noses... the fact that the IRB boss came out and said they will cater for anyone who can establish their own ritual, smacks of naivety. Standing arm in arm and walking toward the haka is for many teams exactly that.. so whats the problem?

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  8. #8
    Legend Contributor brokendown gunfighter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    wembley
    Posts
    8,048
    vCash
    5398000
    traditionally the haka was only performed when on tour
    now its before home games as well
    Jones is a dipstick,trying to imply O'Driscoll was smashed for disrespecting the haka,is a joke

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  9. #9
    Veteran Sheikh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    4,907
    vCash
    28916136
    Mike Miller said: "It is a traditional part of the game. If people want to develop something - not a response, not a war dance, but a traditional or cultural way of engendering that team spirit for a match, great. They should be able to and we should create the space to do it."

    So should we allow the old joke about responses to the haka:
    England can do a Morris dance
    Scotland do a ceilidh
    France set fire to some sheep
    Spain have a siesta, etc.

    I don't want the haka stopped, but to say that teams have to stand respectfully and not respond in any way is a joke. Wales in 2006 was exactly the right response - follow protocol and have the home anthem as last thing before kick-off, you can do the haka before that, or not at all, NZ's choice.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  10. #10
    Veteran beige's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    4,515
    vCash
    5000000
    Quote Originally Posted by zimeric View Post
    the thing is the haka doesnt get up peoples noses its the fact that noone is allowed to respond to it that gets up peoples noses...
    I agree - that's ridiculous. But ban the whole thing?

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  11. #11
    Legend Court Reporter
    Contributor
    James's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Bridgetown, WA
    Posts
    6,111
    vCash
    22000
    Stephen Jones is just being his same old twatty self.

    Banning the whole thing would be a waste of time and effort. Just let people reply if they want to. Wales singing the national anthem back at it was a great idea. The All Blacks management are bogans for complaining. Haha I love what England did in 1997- hadn't heard that before. Thats what would get fans pumped up for a big test. You know when players are fighting before the whistle goes that its on.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast.

  12. #12
    Champion
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    South Perth
    Posts
    1,443
    vCash
    5010000
    The only international sport that features a bit of theatre. Keep it in the game it's not such a big deal. Campo did his personal thing by showing neither respect nor disrepect. Is there a law that the opposing team has to face the Haka?

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  13. #13
    Immortal Contributor
    Moderator
    Burgs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Country WA
    Posts
    22,802
    vCash
    390000
    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    Banning the whole thing would be a waste of time and effort...
    Well really, it would be a considerable saving of time and effort

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    "Bloody oath we did!"

    Nathan Sharpe, Legend.

  14. #14
    Veteran Ecky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    2,891
    vCash
    5004000
    Try reciting "Humpty Dumpty" when they do the 'Kama te' version of the haka - it's most amusing to non-NZers and it fits really well to the timing of the chant.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

Similar Threads

  1. A song and dance about something
    By AndyS in forum New Zealand
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 26-06-09, 13:09
  2. A song and dance for Crusaders fans
    By Flamethrower in forum Super Rugby
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 29-05-08, 13:20

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •