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Thread: state of western australia club rugby.

  1. #1
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    state of western australia club rugby.

    from what i have seen in the first round of games so far there is a definate divide in this comp. we have teams that buy players in, we have teams that try to produce players and we have teams that are just hanging on by a thread. so i ask these questions to you guys to gauge what can be done or if my thoughts are right.

    1. wanneroo apparently have a big money man. not so shrewd this year with buying players tho. why isnt there a limit on imports on all the clubs in w.a. i have watched most teams this year and everyone has imports of some kind. rockingham made theres captain last week after being at the club for 3 weeks. how did the other players feel about that?

    2. the standard of reffing is poor. not every ref is on the same page. all refs need to be reffing on the same laws and same advantage line. you have one ref one week who is strict and likes cards the next week you can get away with murder. why is this?

    3.i have played 4 premier games this season. not many of the other teams seem passionate about playing and winning. dont get me wrong no one like losing but i bet alot of players are happy with the match fee. why dont clubs get players that WANT to play for them and not because of the MONEY.?

    4. the divide in the league between bottom 4 and top 6 is big. teams such as cott, kala,pally,wanneroo,soaks,neddies, are the benchmark. the other 4 need to be up to this standard for the comp to be stronger. yes they have imported players in but there is alot of talent around its about finidng it. would it make the comp stronger to make it an 8 team comp and offer clubs the chance to join forces for example maybe wests and uni? not sayin this is to happen but any teams in the comp could do it to limit the teams.

    5. finally i was speaking to a fellow player who is in a premier team here that knew a mate of mine in his home country. he said he was playing for ??????? so i said why. he said they were paying him $15000 dollars sign on fee plus match fee plus car. would he be there if they didnt offer that.

    thanks guy sorry about the rant but i wouldnt mind hearing your thoughts on this subject.

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    Immortal GIGS20's Avatar
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    WA Premier league players get a match fee?

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    C'mon the

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    yes some of these players do. is it that hard to understand? why else would they come here.

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    maybe its a good place to live?

    often they get set up with job opportunities

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  5. #5
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    no mention of kala or paly buying a team funny about that

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    All Premier Grade Teams have imported players. Some just do it a bit smarter than others.

    Some also have more cash to spend and better connections to provide players employment and other fringe benefits.

    The clubs like Soaks and Cottesloe with a White Only Policy have less hassles with player management and retention. They both import and poach players as well as anyone. Cottesloe has done particularly well on the poaching front this year.

    Wests are the kings of poaching and have been for the past 6-8 years. They even poach from the poachers and then claim they are growing their own.

    Rockingham have imported a number of new players recently but too little too late to either fix their current problems or their future problems.

    At the other end of the scale Wanneroo have a sugar daddy but the coach has the say on player recruitment. Bit like giving your wife a credit card and telling her to go out and have fun at the shops! She doesn't always buy wisely.

    My earlier post "The Beginning of the Great Divide" predicted this situation emerging and being more pronounced this year and becoming a common story for many years to come.

    Wanneroo's money man was recently appointed to the Rugby WA Board so he may well lose interest in throwing his spare change at opportunistic kiwi players and focus on the bigger picture.

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    Last edited by The Oracle; 22-05-10 at 23:57.

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    I have it on good authority that Wanneroo might also be losing interest in their coach. This year is make or break, most likely break.

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    i did forget to mention that kala and paly have both bought teams. with these sides tho dont the younger players in the 20s and 18s think they will never get a game for the senior team .

    if they buy players in the younger players will continue to leave. also i never knew about the white only policy that 2 clubs in the league have. this is very poor. is it white only players that they approch or you have to be white to play there?

    i see kala have lost a few players to the eastern states. i gather they had more money than kala then. also i have heard paly are trying to intice a couple of english players over here. i know this is true as i know one of the players that they are speaking to.

    and what do they offer? you guess is as good as mine.

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  9. #9
    Legend Contributor fulvio sammut's Avatar
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    Cottesloe have a "white only" policy?

    Much as I dislike what Cottesloe stand for in WA rugby, I think that statement is untrue and unfair.

    Ruthless and conniving they are, Racist they are not.

    ---------- Post added at 15:10 ---------- Previous post was at 14:39 ----------

    Oh Palmyra are recruiting where ever they can, alright. You don't know the half of it. The club is well advanced in its recruitment program for next season as well. And they spend their own money doing so, with a good business plan which extends beyond an absorption in just running a rugby club from day to day.

    Someone posted in another thread the names of the "money" clubs. Don't underestimate Palmyra. Of all the clubs, Palmyra is the most self sufficient and independent of RugbyWA, sponsorship and economic vagaries. If it were not so we would have been royally screwed by the union years ago.

    We don't need to get super 14 players from Rugby WA and be treated as mendicants. We've learnt how to get them ourselves where necessary.

    And just on the issue of colts players being "disheartened" by the presence of quality recruits in the club.

    Firstly, the best player gets the gig, simple. No coach gives a rat's A where the player comes from if he is better than the next.

    Secondly, Palmyra is the biggest junior club in the state, so we won't be preached to by others who can't or won't put in the money or the effort.

    Third, our colt age players need development to reach the required standard. Four of them have been given the opportunity so far this year to play firsts. Others will get their chance.

    None are so stupid as to believe they deserve to be there on a regular basis. The club has an obligation to win games and to satisfy its broader membership of supporters, as well as to develop its colts in a sensible controlled and reasonable manner. Every one of them has the opportunity to play firsts, when he shows he can, and his coaches feel he is ready for it.

    Forthly, we don't just recruit on playing ability in many cases. We also try to select players who can contribute coaching skills and add to the social fabric of our club. Just ask our junior parents, and those who have attended our social functions.

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    Legend Contributor brokendown gunfighter's Avatar
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    how's the recruiting of the Italian front row going Fulvio?

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    Quote Originally Posted by w.a rugbyfan View Post

    2. the standard of reffing is poor. not every ref is on the same page. all refs need to be reffing on the same laws and same advantage line. you have one ref one week who is strict and likes cards the next week you can get away with murder. why is this?
    Yeah ......... I don't know how this could possibly happen. It simply doesn't happen in any other competition anywhere else in the world.

    Someone needs to answer for this. Completely unacceptable. If every other competition everywhere esle can get good standard referees, all of whom make consistant calls with each other, why the bleeding heck can't we here in Perth?

    .........and while we're at it, let's not just look at the Premier Grade refs, it's the whole lot of them really, innit?

    It's just not on. Whom at RugbyWA do we need to speak to about this?

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    well im glad to here paly are doing well. i come from england where our club puts out 3 senior sides and a under 19 side week in week out.

    all the first grade players get paid a nominal fee ( last season was 30 pounds a game to all 18 players in the senior squad that week) we are a good club. our club house is open to anyone every day of the year and our turn over last year just in bar sales was over a quater of a million pounds.

    we have over 1000 members of our club and get around 800 a week watching if not more. last week we had a big game and got close to 2000 watching. all paying to get in apart from under 16s which is free.

    now we dont go chasing players or paying over the odds players come to our club for the right reasons like good coaching a good atmosphere good team and good ethics.

    of our first second and third grade teams only 6 players have come in from outside our area. all the other players have been home grown and we continue to attract new players . we are a good side and would turn over most of this league here. certainly the bottom half of the table and more than likley the top half from what i have seen.

    so what is the answer to this? why cant a club in perth have this sort of backing like many clubs in england do. we arnt just an exception lots of clubs are the same. there is scope to do ths here so whay hasnt someone put there hand up and said yes this is the way forward. i have been to most clubs here and find the atmosphere after games is poor. no one stays it doesnt look like a rugby club more like a meeting place for overseas rugby players.

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    Legend Contributor brokendown gunfighter's Avatar
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    Ecky,Stooky will get it sorted!

    ---------- Post added at 17:19 ---------- Previous post was at 17:14 ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by w.a rugbyfan View Post
    well im glad to here paly are doing well. i come from england where our club puts out 3 senior sides and a under 19 side week in week out.

    all the first grade players get paid a nominal fee ( last season was 30 pounds a game to all 18 players in the senior squad that week) we are a good club. our club house is open to anyone every day of the year and our turn over last year just in bar sales was over a quater of a million pounds.

    we have over 1000 members of our club and get around 800 a week watching if not more. last week we had a big game and got close to 2000 watching. all paying to get in apart from under 16s which is free.

    now we dont go chasing players or paying over the odds players come to our club for the right reasons like good coaching a good atmosphere good team and good ethics.

    of our first second and third grade teams only 6 players have come in from outside our area. all the other players have been home grown and we continue to attract new players . we are a good side and would turn over most of this league here. certainly the bottom half of the table and more than likley the top half from what i have seen.

    so what is the answer to this? why cant a club in perth have this sort of backing like many clubs in england do. we arnt just an exception lots of clubs are the same. there is scope to do ths here so whay hasnt someone put there hand up and said yes this is the way forward. i have been to most clubs here and find the atmosphere after games is poor. no one stays it doesnt look like a rugby club more like a meeting place for overseas rugby players.


    welcome to the last outpost of rugby

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  14. #14
    Veteran Sheikh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by w.a rugbyfan View Post
    ... so what is the answer to this? why cant a club in perth have this sort of backing like many clubs in england do. we arnt just an exception lots of clubs are the same. there is scope to do ths here so whay hasnt someone put there hand up and said yes this is the way forward. i have been to most clubs here and find the atmosphere after games is poor. no one stays it doesnt look like a rugby club more like a meeting place for overseas rugby players.
    I think you've answered your own question there, mate. There's more people in England, a higher proportion of the population are rugby players/supporters, and populations are more stable.

    Perth has only 1.6 million people and the main sport for Australians, by a long way, is AFL. The population has doubled in the last 30 years, and it's mainly due to immigration rather than births. The mining industries bring in a lot of overseas workers, often from NZ and SA, where rugby is the main sport (OK, in SA it's close between rugby and soccer). So a lot of local rugby players are overseas players, who've come here for work.

    It takes time to build up the type of club rugby in England, and with the mobile nature of the population here, even if you do build up a club like your one back home, it could fold when the population moves on.

    If you want to encourage the more European style rugby club, get involved with your club and suggest they build a clubhouse with bar. Then get all the permits, planning permissions, insurance, etc, etc. I reckon you'll find it's a huge effort to get it off the ground. But it could be worth it once you do.

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    The White Only Policy is not official current club policy obviously but their recruitment is done very carefully because these clubs are well aware of how some of the kiwis and islanders can be high maintenance and disruptive.

    How many of Soaks current first grade squad are non-white? Answer Zero.

    How many of the current Cottesloe first grade squad are non-white? Answer One.

    Soaks some years ago when advertising for players in a rugby magazine used the words "Maoris and Islanders need not apply". Clearly they would not repeat that in todays world of political correctness and I don't believe that anyone associated with the Cottesloe or Soaks clubs have a racist bone in their bodies. I am saying that they are very intelligent in their recruitment strategy and recruit in such a way as to build on their existing club "social mix" and demographic. In other words, good rugby players with private school educations are targetted and readily slot into their club culture. Your average kiwi rugby journeyman / all black triallist does not fit the bill.

    Soaks 2010 key imports are quality players from the UK and have gelled well with the team.

    Both Soaks and Cottesloe are very strategic and do not take impulsive recruitment decisions on a year by year basis. Hats off to them.

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    Last edited by The Oracle; 23-05-10 at 17:59.

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