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Thread: Rugby could become a high-scoring joke: Mitchell

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    Rugby could become a high-scoring joke: Mitchell

    Western Force coach John Mitchell fears new Super 14 rugby laws could turn the game into a farce.

    The laws have been tweaked to favour attacking teams at the breakdown, and Mitchell is concerned the game could become another form of basketball.

    Second-round fixtures were marked by several high-scoring try-fests, including the 137 points scored by the Chiefs and Lions (72-65), the 50-32 Bulls win over the Brumbies and even the Force's 47-22 loss where 10 tries were scored.

    Mitchell described the 137-point match as "farcical" and "an absolute joke". "I just really do hope that rugby does not go to that level under these new laws," he said.

    "That was basketball. Rugby is still a contest and we still have to make sure it is a contest. We've got to be very careful, we've got to be very, very careful that we still keep rugby as a contest."

    Meanwhile, Mitchell is waiting to hear whether centre Ryan Cross and utility back Mark Bartholomeusz will be fit for the third-round clash against the Chiefs at ME Bank Stadium on Saturday night.

    The pair trained yesterday with former Force favourite and hard-running centre Scott Staniforth, who has re-signed with the club, initially on a four-game contract, to help ease the club's injury crisis.

    The Australian Rugby Union had refused the club permission to re-sign Staniforth but he became a free agent when his Japanese club, Yokogawa, collapsed last week.

    It is unlikely the club's other new signing, former All Black and Chiefs fly-half David Hill, will arrive in time from Japan for the game against his old club.

    Bartholomeusz had been training at fly-half and full-back before his back injury. If he is fit, Mitchell would have the option of moving him into the playmaker's role or to full-back, which would allow teenager James O'Connor to move forward to fly-half, where he performed so well against the Hurricanes.

    While the Force are still reeling from their injury crisis, the third-placed Chiefs have problems of their own. Their two wins, 19-18 against the Sharks in Durban and the try-fest against the Lions at Ellis Park, came at a cost, with three injured players and suspended Sione Lauaki not stopping in Perth.

    All Blacks winger Sitiveni Sivivatu strained his shoulder in the weekend's win over the Lions and is expected to be out for two weeks. Second row Craig Clarke is likely to be sidelined for up to six weeks with a groin injury. Prop James McGougan also is on the plane home with a back injury.

    http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/spo...joke-mitchell/

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    Veteran Ecky's Avatar
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    Haven't most people been crying out for more attacking rugby and tries being scored?

    I do agree however that, by the look of the scores in some games, tackling has been optional and this should be corrected.

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    Even under the old laws the Chiefs vs Force game in 2007 went to 64-36 (100 points). Thats just the way the Chiefs are- supreme on attack but sloppy on defense. Plus the added factors of a handful of Chiefs players in the bin and the altitude of JoBurg and the high score is still an extreme and not the norm. I hope we do keep up a lot of nail biters though.

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    Mitch might have been tactically sowing a seed in the mind of the ref for saturday about the importance letting the defensive side have a fair go....

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    In my mind the four try bonus is there for more than just a random figure, it's about the mark for a good match that at least one, it not both teams will achieve.
    If you have a match with somewhere between six and ten tries then everyone is basically happy with the spectical, if not the particular result.
    Let's hope the weekend was an extreme, not the average.
    I do worry that we will lose a special set of skills if the McCaw's, Smith's and Pocock's of the sport are policed out of it.
    I hope/believe, as with every new interpretation at the start of a season, after a few matches it will tone down and average out.
    Currently as a tackler you can barely afford to go to ground for fear of being pinned by the following players and then giving away a penalty.
    There may have needed to be changes, but I hope this isn't the new long term standard.
    In the matches I have seen (ie, not the SA ones) I haven't seen an increase of running Rugby as the Rugby Club were singing about last week, all I have seen is an increase in attacking penalties.

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    Everybody seems to want to watch poofta backs prancing around scoring tries
    I agree the ruck area needed looking at. It needs to be policed. It has to be a contest though. Players should be able to steal the ball legally if they are good enough however.
    Bring back pilfering and bring back rucking
    I don't like watching 7's or touch rugby
    I don't like watching penalty goal shootouts either
    I do like a very physical contest at the breakdown because that IS rugby
    I'm with Mitchell..........as always
    Mitchell to be coach until 2020

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waylon View Post
    Everybody seems to want to watch poofta backs prancing around scoring tries
    Really gotta do sumthin' about all these false identities. Everyone knows this is the real Waylon - obviously a back.



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    it is going to trash the the old points records too. Mortlock's 1000 points is a great achievement that will be pissed on by even the most average fly half in just over 2 and a half seasons of play.

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    I think there are an awful lot of people looking for problems where there aren't any, with the risk that it could derail an entirely good idea.

    The Lions/Chiefs game had nothing at all to do with the new interpretations, it was the Chiefs going into turbo attack mode (as they sometimes do) and the Lions having to chase the game. Comparing 2010 with 2009, scorelines being 65-72 and 29-36 respectively:
    • 34 penalties+frees in 2010; 29 in 2009 -There is probably a perception gap due to most penalties last year being taps, but unexpectedly (to me, anyway) it seems that a hell of a lot of penalties this year are being tapped anyway. Similar outcome achieved a different way but, importantly, without imposing a prescribing way that the game must be played.
    • 31 turnovers with 7 at the ruck/maul in 2010; 36 and 12 in 2009 - Certainly not unlimited league, so far at least.
    • 294 tackles attempted, 28 ineffective and 92 missed(!) in 2010; 263 attempted, 23 ineffective and 26 missed in 2009. - No chance that was actually the story of the game?


    Picked the Bulls/Brumbies match as a check:

    ....................2010......2009
    Score............50-32....31-32
    Penalties..........9..........19
    Turnovers........31.........37
    at breakdown...11.........10

    The fears aren't warranted yet, so how about we watch it for what it is? From what I've seen to date, I would have said the refs have been pretty good at not just enforcing the tackle release, but also the ball release and penalising sealing off. Sure if they start cocking it up it could all go wrong, just as they weren't enforcing whole swathes of law previously and no-one was really happy. But in my opinion, what we are seeing at the moment is as near as dammit the breakdown as dictated by the actual laws. I wouldn't mind seeing how that plays out for a bit before everyone starts clamouring for protection of poor defense, overlaid "interpretations" so that lazy players don't have to actually play to the law or do the hard yards in defense, in some misguided belief that competition at the breakdown means creating a 50/50 outcome.

    On a related topic though:

    New refereeing philosophy puts accent on running rugby for 2011 World Cup

    AFTER the dirge that was the 2007 World Cup, the 2011 version in New Zealand is shaping as the most entertaining following confirmation the refereeing interpretations being used in the Super 14 will carry over to the tournament.....

    SANZAR referees' boss Lyndon Bray told The Australian yesterday that an integrated approach was being taken to the implementation of the new refereeing philosophy......

    Already, northern hemisphere critics have latched on to the 72-65 result as an indictment of a return to basketball scores by the Super 14. In that case, they should brace themselves because a clutch of southern hemisphere referees are about to descend on the Six Nations tournament where they will apply the same interpretations now revitalising the Super 14.

    South African referees Jonathan Kaplan, Mark Lawrence, Craig Joubert and Jonker, and New Zealand's Bryce Lawrence all have been assigned matches over the final three rounds of the Six Nations. Although the new interpretation has been applied in the opening rounds, Bray admitted a more gradual approach had been taken in the northern hemisphere because the change was being made mid-season.

    "But I'm very confident that as the year goes on, international rugby will be more and more aligned to where we are right now in the Super 14," he said. "That's certainly the full intention."

    Asked whether every country would have a full year to adjust to the new interpretations before the World Cup starting in September 2011, Bray replied: "They will."
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1225833622374

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    Last edited by AndyS; 24-02-10 at 13:09.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CunnamullaFulla View Post
    Everybody seems to want to watch poofta backs prancing around scoring tries
    I agree the ruck area needed looking at. It needs to be policed. It has to be a contest though. Players should be able to steal the ball legally if they are good enough however.
    Bring back pilfering and bring back rucking
    I don't like watching 7's or touch rugby
    I don't like watching penalty goal shootouts either
    I do like a very physical contest at the breakdown because that IS rugby
    I'm with Mitchell..........as always
    Mitchell to be coach until 2020
    I'm with this fulla

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rex Messup View Post
    I'm with this fulla
    you ARE this fulla aren't you?

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    C'mon the

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    Someone is definately fulla &*(#

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    yes rugby could become a high-scoring joke, however its only been two games under the new interpretations, however coaches will figure out ways to defend against the new rules and it will settle down a bit.

    What me might see is dominant teams become more dominant, and just make it a bit more lopsided at the international level.

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    Champion Rex Messup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by normie View Post
    Someone is definately fulla &*(#
    Norm and Gigs the happy couple


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    Quote Originally Posted by CunnamullaFulla View Post
    Everybody seems to want to watch poofta backs prancing around scoring tries
    I agree the ruck area needed looking at. It needs to be policed. It has to be a contest though. Players should be able to steal the ball legally if they are good enough however.
    Bring back pilfering and bring back rucking
    I don't like watching 7's or touch rugby
    I don't like watching penalty goal shootouts either
    I do like a very physical contest at the breakdown because that IS rugby
    I'm with Mitchell..........as always
    Mitchell to be coach until 2020
    This guy needs his status changed to 'legend'.

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