Western Force 2010 - Strengths & Weaknesess

[Lee Grant]

STRENGTHS

• Backrow
Pocock, Hodgson and Brown don't offer the best balanced backrow in Oz but they are arguably the most effective. Ideally you'd like a 3rd lineout jumper who is better than Brown and an 6 and 8 who are not so similar in what they do, but that is immaterial when you look at the work rate and physicality of the three backrowers.

Horua was a significant loss in depth and he always kept the physicality and workrate up to that of the other three. Others will fill in if Pocock is injured but they don't have nearly the same quality as Bam-Bam. If Hodgson is injured the style of player will change and one of the locks, probbaly Stanford, will have to come on at 6, and he will play closer.

Ben McCalman was a fine schools No. 8 and was in cracking form playing in the short-arsed 2nd row for Sydney Uni who use, in effect, 5 backrowers. His professional future is at 8, but if he gets on the park in 2010 don't expect fireworks. First he needs at least a year of physical preparation and second, he is a skills type 8, not a bruiser 8. However, that may change in time with improved physicality and another 5 kgs.

• Props
With Dunning and Fairbrother at THP and Cowan and Henderson at LHP; and Dunning able to play at an elite level on the other side if the starting LHP is substituted, they will have one of the better matchday 22 props in 2010.

• Goalkicking depth
The Tahs wouldn't mind having some of the Force goal kickers. Shepherd will take the long kicks and Pretorius the shorter ones. Then they have JOC, Sheehan and Harris as 2nd stringers.



WEAKNESSES

Hooker
• The Force HPU did a poor job in recruiting an experienced hooker. Even if they had obtained the Oz U/20 captain, Damien Fitzpatrick, who preferred to stay in Sydney as 3rd string for the Tahs, it wouldn't have answered. Ben Whitaker, who was 2nd string in the Oz U/20 team, is a fine, young, big hooker and is as hard as nails, but he will be thrown into the deep end. This has it's good points but the bad will come with it.

Oz coach Deans has done his good mate Mitch a service in cross-training Cowan as a hooker, but I wouldn't set great store by this.

I would expect Dunning to play some at LHP as one of the main duties there is to protect the hooker from the boring in of the defensive THP.

• Halves
The scrumhalf and flyhalf connection does not look great. Sheehan is usually superb in Sydney club rugby but he played some ordinary games this year for my club side, the Rats, especially in crunch matches. O'Young played all over him when the Rats took on Eastwood; so, on that form, it won't be so bad with O'Young starting.

Pretorius is an affable, crafty player, and IIRR he was the difference in the result the last time he played in Perth, but the Force will miss having a running flyhalf. JOC will have to provide that at 12.

Petoors is a serial crock and if he is injured the spot may go to Sam Harris, who also plays for my Rats team. He had some good games early in the season but wasn't the greatest after he came back from an injury. Coach Mitchell would have been unhappy watching some of the DVDs of Rats games he got in the 2nd half of the season. He would have been particularly appalled by the frequent poor combination between 9. Sheehan and 10. Harris.

3rd string would be Hunt. He was selected as the 12 in the Oz U/16 merit team in 2007 and I was looking forward to seeing him play in the Oz Schools tournament in Canberra in 2008, but he had a quiet week and didn't make the Oz School 1st XV.

I wouldn't have Rabbit playing 10 as it will cause problems where he should be playing. I have seen him play flyhalf at school and he was like an outside back who's the best player in his school team, playing 10.

• Back Three
With Cummins out for the start of the season and Mitchell gone to Sydney the Force will be short of quality in the back three. Sare (yet another Rat – as is Cowan) is a good footie player and plays wing often for the Force, but he is really a good centre playing out of position. If another serial crock, Shepherd, succumbs again it would be best to switch Rabbit to fullback as the squad is chock full of midfielders.

Some good news is the form of DHP in the Sydney comp. He didn't get a lot of of press for his good performances here but I thought that he was terrific in the games I saw him play in. I think he'll blossom in 2010. He'll be parked on the wing but his future is at fullback.

• Second Row
Sharpe and Hockings are the only two real locks and neither is a good TH lock. Stanford has not shown a lot of physicality in club or Super14 rugby that I have seen and Wykes is still like the skinny lock he was at school, though he is just as skilful as he was then. At the Super 14 level Wykes and Stanford should be bench players covering lock and 6. Of all the “locks” only Hockings has proved himself to have a good work rate and grunt.

Luke Jones – I haven't talked about him above as a backrower or 2nd rower as it's a bit much to ask an 18 year old forward to make a difference a couple of months after leaving school. I've seen him in the 2008 and 2009 Oz Schools tournaments and, as a schools player, was similar in type to Hugh McMeniman – skilful in the lineout and the open and with a high work rate and physicality in the tight.

He could be anything in our game and I wish that we could have kept him in Sydney, but I'm curious as to why he (and Hunt) were given a rookie contract and nothing else.

[shasta]

Thanks for the heads up on the Warringah performers. Pretty handy first post. Welcome.

[Burgs]

Welcome aboard Lee and thanks for some insight of Sydney performances.
I don't think your perspective would provide too many surprises to most Force supporters, there are certainly some holes that will need good fortune &/or young players stepping up to get us through the season.
As pointed out in a thread yesterday, Hooker is certainly the foremost of those positions and will have the faithful on edge all year. It was announced somewhere recently that Cowan wouldn't be pursuing Hooking however, it does provide us some cover on match day if both rakes go down.
If Mitch has a full compliment of Backrowers I would be surprised if he starts all three of Hodgson, Pocock and Brown, even if the #6 may not be 100% S14 standard. I feel this will be rotated through Manu, McCalman and Stanford with Hodgson the "super sub" that can provide cover in all three positions.
It is inevitable that Pocock or Brown will miss a match at some stage due to the hard nature of their playing style and I am sure Hodgson will cover that admirably however, he is the third of the three in pecking order for sure.
I am sure the Squad would start the season with an eye to the Championship and that there are a few diehards who also believe that to be the goal.
I think for me this season has become one of rebuilding (14 new faces!) with solid performances seeing us again just out of the Finals with huge promise (with some good key position 2011 recruiting) for the following season.

[pieter blackie]

Hi and welcome Lee

I think that that is one of the longest first post I have read

[oxleymoron]

I would also look at the possibility of Bart involved in the back three, potentially at fullback. Depending on how Shep has recovered from his injury, he would be better served on the wing, where there is less kicking and where he has been very effective in the past (2007 all season and the 2009 brumbies game).

I would also look at the possibility of Mitch Inman as a potential winger, very similar in size to Crossy and bigger than DHP and Sare - just don't know about his tactical kicking ability.

[brokendown gunfighter]

welcome generals Lee & grant.With half your rats team playing for the Force,I thought you would be posting over here sooner
We are biased here,but admit it
we do not suffer from the superior airs of some of the posters on the yellow scarf
& Pieter,by Lee Grants standards,it was a brief post!

[James]

Good first post Lee.

We are definitely a bit short on depth in some areas but I don't think it is that bad in some of the areas you mentioned.

For starters at lock we pretty much have the same faces except no Dave Pusey. They did a pretty good job in my opinion last year and no doubt both Stanford (who will now likely be seen more as a lock than a 6/8) and Wykes will have toughened up a bit. Having a stronger front row this year will take the pressure off the rest of the team in the tight exchanges too. Besides that none of the Australian teams really have a lot of depth in the 2nd row.

The back three isn't going to be abyssmal either. It will be great for the Force to go back to someone who can actually kick the ball from fullback. Drew's off the side of the boot clearances have cost the Force a great many metres in the past and we don't need to bring up his shaky defense. Cummins was a big blow but I reckon he'll be back on the bench by round 5 and only miss three games. If things go according to plan we'll have Shepherd, DHP and Bartholomeusz back there to start with and Shepherd and DHP are very big kickers and very hard to bring down. And then there is always the option of playing James O'Connor in there too. We lack a bit of speed but we can cope without it.

Definitely the big question marks will be over Andre Pretorius and whoever ends up our starting hooker. How they fare will go a long way with how the team goes.

[Thequeerone]

From what I've seen we have a team of individuals who seem to be able to listen to each other as opposed to last year where we had a lot of individuals on a team - the leadership actually seems to be quite hungry for glory this year - so hopefully we get through the silly season without a drama and just go for it.

Would rather see a new Hooker - Super 14 success is 50% team and work, 40 % depth and 10% surviving travel.

gotta love our kickers - reckon we have the most versatile backs - most can cover a couple of spots without to much drama, our backrow is just plain awesome - all have had wallaby exposure which should lead to more composure, Locks - unfortunately all locks pale when put next to Sharpie - reckon that Hockings has the best shot of eclipsing the master.

Our two weakness's are front row and our 9.10,12 combination - not because of talent but lack of match time to develop the necessary confidence, knowledge of how to get the best out of each other.

But looking at the team - reckon we actually have got the players who will want to get the best out of each other

Ripper of a post Lee

[Lee Grant]

I would also look at the possibility of Mitch Inman as a potential winger, very similar in size to Crossy and bigger than DHP and Sare - just don't know about his tactical kicking ability.

Mitch is a similar player to brother Luke who folks may remember was the hard man 12 for the Tahs earlier in the decade. Although he sometimes plays 13 for Sydney Uni, because Carter plays 12, Mitch is a natural inside centre as his brother was, and like Luke, is a pig dog hard bastard.

The boys are nephews of rugby league great Bob McCarthy and you can see the blood lines in action. Don't expect a lot of kicking from Mitch if he gets on the park.

With half your rats team playing for the Force,I thought you would be posting over here sooner.

Yeah you buggers swiped Holmes, AJ, Cowan, Sare, Mackay, and have now got Harris and Sheehan. That's not quite half a team but I have probably forgotten a couple.

Once in a game I noticed the Force had our whole front row on the park. They didn't exactly set the Super14 on fire as a unit but in those days when they weren't allowed to come back to Sydney to play their club rugby, their absence affected us a lot.

[James]

We have pretty decent midfield stocks this year. I wonder if they'll use James O'Connor off the bench as a 10/12/15 for when the game opens up. Wouldn't surprise me to see Josh Tatupu out on the wing this year too.

I noticed Ole Avei isn't listed in the Chiefs squad for 2010 but has been playing for Waikato. I wonder if he is still on the radar for a hooker.

[Lee Grant]

If Tyrrell is in the squad and no longer in the Academy then the Force have their full quota of 31 players, which is 2 fewer than the old limit of 33.

Anybody know for sure what contract he is on and for how long? - and can back it up with a link rather than an "I assume" or an ".. it make sense that ..." type comment.

Also: can anybody provide links that mention how long the contracts are for Longbottom, Tatupu and DHP? Again, the no link, no fact, rule applies.


James

I doubt if the Force will use Rabbit as a bench player. He's the only real X-Factor player you have, now that Gits has gone.

[Bruiser]

A quite comprehensive and analytical summary from LG. Coming from Sydney's northern peninsula he can be excused for not having a full read on two of the Force's three recruits from Sydney Uni

There is nothing I can add to his comments on Luke Jones who, as he says, "could be anything". Let's hope he's given plenty of time to mature.

Of Ben McCalman LG suggests that his "professional future is at 8, but if he gets on the park in 2010 don't expect fireworks. First he needs at least a year of physical preparation and second, he is a skills type 8, not a bruiser 8. However, that may change in time with improved physicality and another 5 kgs."

I can only assume that either he hasn't seen the kid play too often or he has been taken in by his easy going manner. McCalman is not your snarling type of hard man; rather he seems to be having great fun when he puts big hits on people. If he really "needs at least a year of physical preparation" then he's going to be a long way in front of most of his team mates. A genuine bushie known as "Big Dog", he is regarded as potentially the toughest player to come out of Sydney Uni since Dan Vickerman.

I am also scratching my head at LG's comments on Mitch Inman: "Mitch is a similar player to brother Luke who folks may remember was the hard man 12 for the Tahs earlier in the decade. Although he sometimes plays 13 for Sydney Uni, because Carter plays 12, Mitch is a natural inside centre as his brother was, and like Luke, is a pig dog hard bastard."

At my age my memory plays tricks but I can't remember Luke Inman playing 12, even in his Colts days. I also think he'd be amused to be described as a "hard man" or a "pig dog hard bastard" Perhaps LG is thinking of the third brother, Dane, who plays for Randwick and would certainly like to be thought of that way. My memory of Luke is as a superb defender at 13 who could cover more space laterally than almost anyone I've seen. He often seemed to be deliberately offering a big gap to the ball carrier which he would inevitably close with ease if they took the bait. With the ball if he wasn't tackled within a stride-and-a-half he would be away on a long-striding gliding and swerving run. A very stylish player but I certainly wouldn't back him in a street fight.

Young brother Mitch is a different proposition. He has a big career ahead of him. At 105kg with very low skin folds, tall, quick and powerful, he is a precursor of what will become increasingly common in future years, pairs of giant centres who can bend the line in attack and are brutally efficient in defence.

The Western Force have bought well.

[James]

I doubt if the Force will use Rabbit as a bench player. He's the only real X-Factor player you have, now that Gits has gone.

That depends on what you think X-Factor is. I would only suggest it in the first few games where he would come up against Tyrone Smith and Ma'a Nonu if he slots in at 12. More chance to show off that X-Factor if the opposition is tired and holes start opening up. Besides these days neither team really chances their arm that much in the first half.

[Lee Grant]

Nice chirping Bruiser.

I've seen Ben McCalman since he was at school and played in the Oz Schools team with Beale and Cooper. By “bruiser”', Bruiser, I wasn't having a go at his tackling; he does tackle hard. I was talking more about his running style. In Sydney Uni terms he is more of Tim Davidson than a David Lyons (though Lyno could step like Fred Astaire too). Not to the point but I watch a lot of Euro rugby and he is healthy and at the top of his game.

Can we at least agree that McCalman's professional future is as an 8?


Yeah Luke Inman played 13 but I always remember thinking: what a pity he didn't play at 12; but Nathan Grey was there for the Tahs, so that wasn't likely to happen at the pro level.

As for Mitch Inman: I saw him play inside centre in the 2006 Oz Schools tournament every game for NSW II and he played there for Oz A Schools also. I don't know where he played in Colts but in 2008 when Carter was still injured from the year before he played a few times for Uni at inside centre between Hangers at 10 and Mitchell at 13. At other times Kelly would play 10 and Hangers, 12. To me he looks like a natural 12, as his brother was in my eyes, but I've been wrong before.

This year I saw him only at 13 outside Carter, as I indicated, though one of my programmes from a Rats game I was at lists him at 12 in a game at another ground. I also found an old sock I was looking for in the box I throw old programmes into; so thanks for that.

Interesting that you didn't think of Doctor Luke as a hard bastard. I thought he was, and that he could play through pain also. And Mitch is not a pig-dog either? I'll retract when I see Mitch acting like a wuss.

The Force have done well in getting Mitch; one wishes they had done better in sourcing an experienced hooker.


Luke Jones? Yeah – he should be given time to mature but he's a cracking schools player. Any idea why he was given just a rookie contract with no chaser? So both sides can have a look at each other – and Jones to see if he likes Perth? It's curious because anybody who watched him in the Oz Schools tournaments in the last 2 years would know that he's a certain long term Super player.

It's not often one can say that about a lad who played in a tight five position at school. Come back to the big smoke son - we need to replace Rocky I with Rocky II.

---------- Post added at 12:09 ---------- Previous post was at 12:07 ----------

James

Good point.

[Burgs]

I agree James, as I'm sure you will recall, that was always my argument with the use of Waugh and Smith in the Wallabies when it was an issue. Use Waugh as the first half battering ram and Smith to exploit the tiring legs.
One thing Giteau showed is that you need more than X-Factor to win Super 14 matches.

A little early to be dictating terms for how other people post Lee, despite the quality of your own however, seeings you asked so nicely, here's the best I can do at this stage.

Tyrrell was originally being listed as a Senior Academy list player earlier in the year however, the position has been now taken by Joelin Rapana, with the other two places being Justin Turner and Siosefo (Filipe) Manu. Tyrrell is now listed as a full member on the Force website.

http://www.rugbywa.com.au/emirates_w...emy,56768.html

http://www.rugbywa.com.au/players/ry.../section/54680

Can't help with the contract lengths at this stage with fact and am not allowed to suggest what I think to be the case