James O'Connor Fights to keep James O'Connor at the Force!

[jargan83]

Graham Henry is doing a good job at 87% ( Much as I'm no a fan)...
IT has nothing to do with the King of Siam...
So stop posting pro Mitchell spam...

2 years not 4 years gentlemen and only 28 matches including the RWC... So he took over to lead the ABs into the 2003 RWC by the NZRU... You can't live on past victories for ever... A better example of Mitchell's coaching abilities is with Pocock and Brown...

I don't remember saying 4 years??

Who said anything about past victories, it's just fun shooting you down. You must be of German decent

[mudskipper]

GIGS was referring to Mitchell coaching an international team for 4 years with a 82% record...

[GIGS20]

Graham Henry is doing a good job at 87% ( Much as I'm no a fan)...
IT has nothing to do with the King of Siam...
So stop posting pro Mitchell spam...

2 years not 4 years gentlemen and only 28 matches including the RWC... So he took over to lead the ABs into the 2003 RWC by the NZRU... You can't live on past victories for ever... A better example of Mitchell's coaching abilities is with Pocock and Brown...

WTF, You were the one who brought John Mitchell's coaching record into the argument, when I posted some information about his coaching record in relation to Andy Friend's You were the one who said Graham Henry's record was better. Surely we should be telling YOU to stop posting pro Graham Henry spam into the thread......unless Henry is going to be coaching the Brumbies next year........I wouldn't be surprised with the spending spree they're embarking upon!

Remeber your original point Muddy, it was that the Brumbies had a internationally experienced coaching staff. When the discussion is about where Rabbit will benefit most, you are saying by implication that the Force does NOT have a quality internationally experienced coaching staff. I posted some facts (from memory) one of which was disputable which proved this point conclusively.

In typical fashion, when presented with an undisputable answer to one of your ramblings, you attempted to diflect the point buy suggesting that there are coaches on the planet with a better record than John Mitchell's, this is a point which I won't dispute, but is totally irrelevant to the discussion, since NONE OF THEM ARE WORKING FOR THE BRUMBIES!

Delighted to cross swords with you Muddy, it's time we score this one to the GIGSa.

---------- Post added at 12:51 ---------- Previous post was at 12:49 ----------

On to more important questions. When the kid signs will you be known as RAGS20? Sounds better than RIGS20.

That's the first alternat moniker I've heard that has merit! I think I'd stick with RIGS for the rhyme-factor though

[mudskipper]

GIGS... I raised Henry after your 82% 4 year mistake on history... My point about International experience is with Finegan, Young, Huxley...and likely Larkham time all the ex players 3 RWC winners and S14 Champs... yes Friend has no international experience but is a carer coach with a lot to offer especially with his people managements skills...

[jargan83]

GIGS was referring to Mitchell coaching an international team for 4 years with a 82% record...

and you already answered that though in your post before mine

[Flamethrower]

I heard a whisper the Brumbies were looking at Larry Gelwix.

He has a 98% win ratio over 34 years.

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=294&sid=6515822

[shasta]

[/COLOR]And Shasta, their only facts, if they’re accurate….

The point was accurate. JOC does not need Giteau to open holes in the defense. He does just fine by himself. But like I said, a troll can't process facts very well, or not all of them anyway. Just the ones that fit his argument. Now get back under the bridge, troll.

---------- Post added at 18:22 ---------- Previous post was at 15:48 ----------

As strange as it sounds, the Western Force's hopes of retaining teen sensation James O'Connor rests with the South African Rugby Union.

Gerry, you might have to re-think posting links to these articles. our resident troll is using them to annoy the wider WA community.

From comments at Perth Now...........

It's difficult not being the master of you own domain. The SARU could keep the Force waiting for sometime going on the recent meetings with the ARU and NZRU about the new Super Rugby format for 2011. As I understand it the SARU want to keep their players available for the Currie Cup.
Posted by: mudskipper of Rugby Pond 8:13am today

Same tired lines same stringing together unrelated facts to suit the desired conclusion - just another audience.

[zimeric]

one thing ive noticed is that muddy has not directly answered robyns question...
and that was "please tell me why staying at the force would be a bad career move"

Muddy answered in several posts with what would be good about moving to the Brumbies and NOT what would be BAD about staying at the Force..

Everyone knows that the brumbies have a lot going for them thats not the issue the issue is what have the Force going for THEM!..

Ill tell you what:
1)the biggest & most dedicated fanbase
2)one of the best Coaches in the world
3)the most corporate support (private funding)
4)the best support and coaching staff anywhere in Aus.
5)Every year has been better than the previous in terms of milestones and results.
6)The knowledge & skills from 10 wallabies (although you can take 2 from that if you want)
7)The best backline and playing style of all the Aussie S14 teams.
8)Less competition in the spot JOC really wants to play in. i.e a starting spot at 12 if he steps up and says thanks ill take it!
9)An improving forward pack (possibly the best right now) in Australia.
10) we have CORNERS!!!

[rahrahgirl]

The point was accurate. JOC does not need Giteau to open holes in the defense. He does just fine by himself.

as good as JOC is, i dont think its time to say he goes through gaps without someone putting him through!

[BLR]

GIGS... I raised Henry after your 82% 4 year mistake on history... My point about International experience is with Finegan, Young, Huxley...and likely Larkham time all the ex players 3 RWC winners and S14 Champs... yes Friend has no international experience but is a carer coach with a lot to offer especially with his people managements skills...

When is it a given that good players will e good at coaching? All the playing experience in the world can be thwarted by a mid level coach who actually knows how to TEACH a player, and Mitch is hardly a mid level coach.

[zimeric]

as good as JOC is, i dont think its time to say he goes through gaps without someone putting him through!

why not??
he did it several times this year and if i remember on one occasion he stepped through TWO (non)gaps to score a try from absolutely nothing (brumbies?).... another occasion against the Tahs he ran the length of the field only to be pulled into touch inches from the line.. Giteau was nowhere to be seen there either..

Part of his brilliance is the ability to be at the right place at the right time to get the pass that puts him through the gap.. its a skill Giteau displayed when he played 12.. i remember a leading commentator saying giteau could step past you in a phone booth! those words ring just as true with O'Connor..

I'm not saying he's perfect.. he has some selfishness that he needs to dislodge before he can become the complete player but id say he is ahead of Giteau by at least 2 years in comparison, as Gits also suffered from sticky fingers for most of his time at the Brumbies and even his first year at the Force.

[GIGS20]

GIGS... I raised Henry after your 82% 4 year mistake on history... My point about International experience is with Finegan, Young, Huxley...and likely Larkham time all the ex players 3 RWC winners and S14 Champs... yes Friend has no international experience but is a carer coach with a lot to offer especially with his people managements skills...

OK, Fair enough, I made a mistake on the length of his service, shhot me!....oops, sorry you've already tried to but are firing blanks....I still wonder who in the coaching staff of the Brumbies has held an 82% international winning record......only one of the names you mention is anything more than an untried past player who'd like to have a go at coaching. Now I understand that Eugene Euloff is in the hunt for the Force attack coach position, and even he would be better and more experienced than Melon, Youngey and the Hux.

NB This is by no means a personal endorsement of Euloff as the attack coach of the Force.

As for people skills, the only people skills Andy Friend needs next year is one sentence "Yes sir Mr Giteau Sir, is there anything more I can do for you?"

---------- Post added at 21:09 ---------- Previous post was at 21:06 ----------

as good as JOC is, i dont think its time to say he goes through gaps without someone putting him through!

It'd be easier to agree with you if you had watched some Force games RRG......Every game he played at 12 he slipped through the line almost at will.

[James]

6)The knowledge & skills from 10 wallabies (although you can take 2 from that if you want)

If you have to take two you have to add two. Sheehan will get a run with the Wallabies at some point no doubt and Robbie Deans will be itching for an excuse to bring out Tim Fairbrother.

[robyn <3]

one thing ive noticed is that muddy has not directly answered robyns question...
and that was "please tell me why staying at the force would be a bad career move"

Muddy answered in several posts with what would be good about moving to the Brumbies and NOT what would be BAD about staying at the Force..

Everyone knows that the brumbies have a lot going for them thats not the issue the issue is what have the Force going for THEM!..

Ill tell you what:
1)the biggest & most dedicated fanbase
2)one of the best Coaches in the world
3)the most corporate support (private funding)
4)the best support and coaching staff anywhere in Aus.
5)Every year has been better than the previous in terms of milestones and results.
6)The knowledge & skills from 10 wallabies (although you can take 2 from that if you want)
7)The best backline and playing style of all the Aussie S14 teams.
8)Less competition in the spot JOC really wants to play in. i.e a starting spot at 12 if he steps up and says thanks ill take it!
9)An improving forward pack (possibly the best right now) in Australia.
10) we have CORNERS!!!

Zim - great minds think alike. I'd got a very simmilar list in my head when I asked the question. James should read this list and realise that the Western Force actually is a very very ultra-fantastic place to be. Way better than the Brumbies.

[rahrahgirl]

why not??
he did it several times this year and if i remember on one occasion he stepped through TWO (non)gaps to score a try from absolutely nothing (brumbies?).... another occasion against the Tahs he ran the length of the field only to be pulled into touch inches from the line.. Giteau was nowhere to be seen there either..

Part of his brilliance is the ability to be at the right place at the right time to get the pass that puts him through the gap.. its a skill Giteau displayed when he played 12.. i remember a leading commentator saying giteau could step past you in a phone booth! those words ring just as true with O'Connor..

I'm not saying he's perfect.. he has some selfishness that he needs to dislodge before he can become the complete player but id say he is ahead of Giteau by at least 2 years in comparison, as Gits also suffered from sticky fingers for most of his time at the Brumbies and even his first year at the Force.

as i said, he still needs players around him to play well, he cant get the ball stone cold all the time, the player inside him puts him into gaps. gaps he runs lines for and gaps they train five days a week to open in defensive lines! but im sure O'connor can do it all on his own, lets throw a 10 on his back and have sheehan throw him everything so he can continue to get battered!