Brumbies still chasing dream signatures

[Jehna]

Please bear in mind the Force did not and do not have a pool of players at club level to draw on, we could only recruit from where the players where.

Absolutely but then you have to question why we signed GIts when we had Daruda, or why we signed a new scrummie when we had stannard. Even now, we're trying to poach quality overseas players to secure a good fly half so JOC will be encouraged to stay, yet with the talent we have in the back line and a newly signed quality scrummie we could stick with some of the talent we already have and should still be able to recruit him. If that's not good enough for him then in accordance with the attitude shown by some twfers here towards players who put of their decision to stay here, we should tell him to get lost...but no one seems prepared to say that in this case.

If a club has the ability and resources to secure some of the best players in the world then why wouldn't they do it? The Force's reasoning now is that we tried that and we didn't play any better, and then they left. So now we have a new strategy. For the Brumbies, they've spent a year trying to build up their local talent and have decided (whether rightly or wrongly) that it isn't working for them. So they have a new strategy - buy good players, or buy good players back.

I'm just saying that we we're either the pot or the kettle here...

[Sheikh]

I'm only a recent arrival in Perth, but from what I've seen of the first year roster the Force didn't buy a team of champions; they bought 3-4 stars and a lot of journeymen.

The Brumbies are currently playing Fantasy Rugby for real. Either they've got much deeper pockets than anyone else, or they're mortgaging the future for a run at the title next year. If the Brumbies don't win the finals next year, with a team stocked with Wallabies, what'll be their excuse?

[Jehna]

I'm not trying to say that the Force bought players on the same scale as the Brumbies currently are. I'm just saying that we've used pretty similar tactics in the past in terms of buying star players. Also, I'm not just talking about our first year. In 2006 from memory we scored Cannon, Welborn, Sharpie, Henjak, Staniforth and Sheps. In 07 Gits, Crossie, and Drew. In 09 we had Valo. All seriously experienced players and some real superstars as well...

I'm also not trying to say that I think the Brumbies strategy is the right one. Just that I think we'd be better of preparing ourselves to say "i told you so" when they don't win the finals next year because we know from our own experience that buying players doesn't work, rather than criticising their actual methods of recruitment, given that we ourselves are guilty of that crime.

[mudskipper]

Western Force only need to sign two...James O'Connor and a quality winger.

Brumbies on the other hand seem willing to misappropriate federal funds to plug all the holes in their team.....go figure!

has the Force signed a Hooker?

---------- Post added at 13:25 ---------- Previous post was at 13:01 ----------

Its really the other way around players are chasing the Brumbies... and the academy factory is working well also... So don't worry about the Brumbies... Surely you’re not crying "equity."..

To be fair the Giteau is returning to his hometown Brumbies so I don’t count him in the great Brumbies buy up. Smith was already there as was Kimlin, Chisholm, Alexander, Hand, Moore, Phibbs and Salvi. Josh Holmes was signed by the Tahs straight away and can return to Sydney. Mitchell Chapman would be a loss he has had two seasons with ongoing injuries, but is a talent.

Josh Valentine is the only other player signed by the Brumbies… The Force could have signed him mid season but didn’t and missed out. Furthermore Rocky Elsom called the Brumbies why wouldn’t they sign him? What a bonus signing for the season…. And young JO’C was offered a contract and a possible 15 jersey as Gerrard re-signed to take up a new career experience on Japan… big deal the kid may still be talked into staying at the force and “ Doing it on his own” as Mitchell stated…

And Clyde Rathbone has been released…

I hardly think they’re buying up the competition… There is no point getting cranky with me Force fans ask why players are slow to sign with Mitchell at the Force? The Brumbies have nearly filled their player roster for next year and the S14 final hasn’t even been played… That’s not bad going…

[jargan83]

I'm not trying to say that the Force bought players on the same scale as the Brumbies currently are. I'm just saying that we've used pretty similar tactics in the past in terms of buying star players. Also, I'm not just talking about our first year. In 2006 from memory we scored Cannon, Welborn, Sharpie, Henjak, Staniforth and Sheps. In 07 Gits, Crossie, and Drew. In 09 we had Valo. All seriously experienced players and some real superstars as well...

How is picking up a bloke who couldn't get a game (Valentine) on the same scale as the Brumbies shopping spree? Or picking up Crossy who was a League convert with little interest from the other Super 14 sides, Cannon was getting towards the end of his career as was Welborn who came back from overseas (see comment about Staniforth further down). Yes we picked up Gits and Drew but apart from that we have usually targeted those a little lower in the pecking order or those out of favour. Even Shep was down the order at the Tahs before signing with the Force after apparently hitting the piss and tap dancing on some dudes car.

Henjak was stuck behind Gregan who refused to throw in the towel, Staniforth lured back from overseas which was would have been one of the goals of the 4th side in the first place. Sharpe would probably be in the Gits and Mitchell basket

[James]

I hardly think they’re buying up the competition… There is no point getting cranky with me Force fans ask why players are slow to sign with Mitchell at the Force? The Brumbies have nearly filled there player roster for next year and the S14 final hasn’t even been played… That’s not bad going…

No there is hardly any point in getting angry at you. But I hope you can appreciate that if the Force were to do the same thing the Brumbies were doing now those in the East would be crying bloody murder.

[Jehna]

How is picking up a bloke who couldn't get a game (Valentine) on the same scale as the Brumbies shopping spree? Or picking up Crossy who was a League convert with little interest from the other Super 14 sides, Cannon was getting towards the end of his career as was Welborn who came back from overseas (see comment about Staniforth further down). Yes we picked up Gits and Drew but apart from that we have usually targeted those a little lower in the pecking order or those out of favour. Even Shep was down the order at the Tahs before signing with the Force after apparently hitting the piss and tap dancing on some dudes car.

Henjak was stuck behind Gregan who refused to throw in the towel, Staniforth lured back from overseas which was would have been one of the goals of the 4th side in the first place. Sharpe would probably be in the Gits and Mitchell basket

I started to respond to every player you've mentioned here but then I've realised i'm repeating myself. In the end, it comes down to the same argument. It makes no difference that players like Valo, Crossy, and Sheps (though I dispute you on that) were not 'wanted' by other clubs, and that players like O'Connor and Rocky are wanted by everyone. We're still shopping for players. In some ways, the Force shopped smarter because we managed to save a few bucks by recruiting players which were obvious talents but for some reason or other, couldn't get game time because at the time, Australia only had three teams and a certain number of positions.

You seem to be suggesting that Force tactics were acceptable because the players we stole were somehow less valuable. I hardly think that is true, and I hardly think that the players we lured were complete duds. We have given some of the now great players wonderful opportunities at the Force, but it isn't as if the Brumbies are recruiting players to sit them on the bench. It also isn't as if the Brumbies are putting a gun to players heads and forcing them to sign with them. Welcome to the game kids. You don't go around politely asking other teams if it is ok if we sign one of their players...pretty sure we didn't ask the Brumbies if they minded if we stole Gits. Players make their own decisions and yes of course they are swayed by money, sponsorship, lifestyle, team mates, wallabies opportunities etc. How do you think we got a team in the first place? I think it is unreasonable to judge a club for spending copious amounts of money recruiting players if they are capable of doing so. The only reason we at the Force are whinging about it is because a) we're losing players; and b) we can't do the same.

The nature of all sports is to field the best team possible. Good luck to the Brumbies....lets hope for their sake their investment is worth it.

[Jehna]

No there is hardly any point in getting angry at you. But I hope you can appreciate that if the Force were to do the same thing the Brumbies were doing now those in the East would be crying bloody murder.

Absolutely. I'm pretty sure they did when we began recruiting in the first place and particularly when we signed Gits. My question is why are we resorting to the same response? Why not take the higher ground, feel safe in the knowledge that what they are doing is stupid as we ourselves proved, and be able to sit back in a years time and say "you guys are idiots" with solid proof that their tactics didn't pay off....

[Darren]

I don't think anyone here is seriously judging the Brumbies or whinging about it.

I think they are enjoying throwing back all the crap that was slung in the Force's direction when the Force were doing similar things 4 years ago.

I also doubt they are "cranky" at Brumbies fans - amused would be my take on it.

[shasta]

Jenha, your asking us to be reasonable. That's not the nature of supporters sites. It's to support the team. If Muddy or any other troll comes on here fishing, some of us are gonna do the same. Besides, this fisherman takes the bait easily as often as his prey. He's getting a bit predictable, though.

[James]

I don't think anyone here is seriously judging the Brumbies or whinging about it.

I think they are enjoying throwing back all the crap that was slung in the Force's direction when the Force were doing similar things 4 years ago.

I also doubt they are "cranky" at Brumbies fans - amused would be my take on it.

Well said Coach. Noone here really cares about Elsom because the Force weren't chasing him so its not like we have lost anything. I'm really chuffed about having 'the next Elsom' already signed in young Ben McCalman. I would've liked Elsom to go to the Reds simply so that all of the Aussie S14 teams remained strong but whatever really.

Some people believe that Aussie rugby would be better served if we had one or two really strong S14 teams but I think I fall on the side of the fence that says four competitive teams is far better than one or two strong ones. So in light of the position the Force finds itself in as the biggest Wallabies contributor I think now is a good time to agree with the sentiments of others on other posts that ARU Wallabies money should be spread out evenly through the franchises rather than the current system. In doing so we would no longer need any form of draft and it puts a bit more responsibility on the shoulders of the franchise.

[mudskipper]

I don't think anyone here is seriously judging the Brumbies or whinging about it.

I think they are enjoying throwing back all the crap that was slung in the Force's direction when the Force were doing similar things 4 years ago.

I also doubt they are "cranky" at Brumbies fans - amused would be my take on it.

Thanks I'll be happily quote you on this post... cranky or vs. amused.... It's the tone, which is the difference…

[jargan83]

It makes no difference that players like Valo, Crossy, and Sheps (though I dispute you on that) were not 'wanted' by other clubs, and that players like O'Connor and Rocky are wanted by everyone. We're still shopping for players. In some ways, the Force shopped smarter because we managed to save a few bucks by recruiting players which were obvious talents but for some reason or other, couldn't get game time because at the time, Australia only had three teams and a certain number of positions.

You seem to be suggesting that Force tactics were acceptable because the players we stole were somehow less valuable. I hardly think that is true, and I hardly think that the players we lured were complete duds.

Where did I say that the players weren't talented or that they were duds?

I think the Force tactics in recruiting a side capable of being competetive were perfectly fair given that ARU gave us a franchise and nothing else. How many of the players that we originally recruited were playing regular Super 14 (Super 12) each week?